Gym and fitness (49 Viewers)

Zacheryah

Senior Member
Aug 29, 2010
42,251
Just found these posts. I have to say that you are wrong when it comes to creatine. Out of everything that is on the market offered to people, creatine, proteins and amino acids are the safest things you can take. And what you say about the negative effects of creatine is completely true but only, and ONLY if you take it, and dont go to the gym to spend what you have put in your body. Many noobs, would take the creatine, hydrate very little, and visit the gym irregularly (like 3 times a week) so in that case, yes, the creatine may have a negative effect on your body. Otherwise, it is no more dangerous than proteins, trust me on this.

- - - Updated - - -



The best advice i could give you, and which helped me alot is to not concern yourself about how much you can lift, pull, push etc. You just go as you feel. Look at the more expirienced arround you in the gym and try to learn from them in how certain excercises are performed while at the same time you dont care that you (for example) can't lift more than 40 kg when you excersise chests (for example). Eat 30/40 minutes (minimum) before training, take something sweet with you like chocolate so your blood sugar level want drop, eat after training when you arrive home. Thats about the basic stuff, the rest you'll have to learn from watching and just from experience as time passes by.
I go to the gym 3 times per week, bench 135kg, squat 200kg, deadlift 240kg last week. Didnt knew that made me a noob

eating 30/40 minutes before training is plain WRONG, your stomache is still filled, the sugar isnt in the mucle glycogene yet, and if you actually do a lift with a considerable weight, you are killing your full stomache with the stress and pressure from the lift.

chocolate ? thats the worst possible thing to eat if you want to avoid insuline peaking. chocolate does just that.

- - - Updated - - -

A brief review on fitness supplements

How does muscles and training work ?

When working out, you contract the muscle. The energy from this comes from burning ATP molecules into the lower energy ADP. The body burns sugar or fat to create energy to regenerate ATP. However this proces is to slow, and the body cannot store ATP. You have a reserve that lasts less then 5 seconds.
The body however, can store Creatine, in deposits in the muscles. Creatine holds more energy then ATP. So when contracting the muscle, creatine will be broken down and the energy is used to regenerate atp quickly.
This proces, creates ALOT of positive H+ ions. This will lower the pH of the muscle, lower the ATP regeneration, and in the end cause muscle failure. The body makes carnosine to combat this. Carnosine works as a spongue that takes up the H+ ions and buffers the pH.
Whilst doing that, the body will break down muscle glycogene to glucosis, burn that, and regenerate ATP and creatine with the resulting energy. Eating slow carbs troughout the day will make the body build a healty amouth of muscleglycogene, wich is basically a branched stored form of glucosis, entirely dedicated for the muscle.
When severely laboring the muscle , microtears will create in the muscle tissue. The body will respond tot this by repairing the damage. This by syntesis of new protein, and breaking down healty protein to create the BCAA.

Preworkout, what should be in the preworkout ?
Muscle enhancement
These are substances that will make the muscles perform optimally, and keep the intensity of your workout the same trough out training. Without you would notice a significant drop when comparing the first 10 minutes to the last.

Creatine
Taking in creatine, will cause the creatine deposits in the muscle to increase tot their maximum size. This occurs after the 2th week of taking it. Secondly, creatine highly retains water in the muscle. This is extremely good, because it allows nutrients tob e shuttled around in the muscle much faster, giving better recovery between sets, and speeding up post workout recovery when you eat after training.
And thats about it. the rest you read about creatine, is marketting bullshit.
You will find diffrent forms. The only diffrence so far is that you need less i fits a buffered form of creatine.

Beta alanine
This amino acid will boost the body’s carnosine. Taking in carnosine itself isnt very effective, as it gets broken down in the proces. However, beta alanine causes up to 40-60% of increased carnosine. Beta alanine will increase the usefullness of creatine. The beginning and intermediate gym visitor will be most beneficial with a creatine and beta alanine supplementation.

Arginine AKG
Has many functions.
- Speeds up recovery for microtrauma caused by training
- Speeds up the regeneration of atp molecules
- Precursor of nitrous oxide(more on that later)

Citruline malaat
A precursor of arginine AKG. However, its more efficient and better taken up by the body. Has a better atp regeneration improvement, and also converts into nitrous oxide later on. Ideally you would use a 3-1 ratio of arginine-citruline.

Nitrous oxide.
Signal molecule that forces the bloodvessels open, creating musclepump in the proces, so that various nutrients can shuttle much more effective. This speeds up recovery during and after training. Because of this, more trauma can be healed in a certain time amount of time. But most importantly, it enables more nitrogen containing molecules(amino acids) to circulate trough the body. The body constantly needs to repair, because of this, it can eighter use circulating amino acids, or break down excess muscle to create BCAA. However, with a higher nitrogen balance, more muscle tissue can be sustained. This makes nitrogen balance a key factor in the amount of muscle your body can have, along with testosterone levels. This fenomenon is called “nitrogen retention”. The more nitrogen you can contain, the more muscle you can sustain.
Note : regeneration of ATP and muscle pump are beneficial to each sporter. Nitrous oxide production is sufficient in beginning and intermediate gym visitors. However, if you start to build some real muscle, it becomes exponentially more important, as it determines how much microtrauma you can heal, and how much muscle your body can manage.

Leucine
Aside from being an BCAA, leucine is very important for the more serious gym visitor. it preserves the muscleglycogene to be only used for muscle contraction.

Taurine
Taurine is a catalyst for the breakdown of glycogene to glucosis. That includes muscleglycogene. Nuff said. You need 1.2 grams before workout.

substances mentionned, can be taken troughout the year, and for creatine, 2 liters of fluid (water, milk,...) is recommanded. I know nobody who had kidney issues because of this. I do know a few who took agressive cutting steroids, and had a kidney failure. dont mix those two up. 2 liters of fluid, and you are fine.

Energy complex
Now that we finished the muscle enhancement, we turn to energy. A good energycomplex will attack your adrenal gland, and give you “borrowed energy” for your workout. You wont lift more or heavyer, but you will feel more energetic, and get mental surge/boost.
A good energy complex, contains cafeine anhydrous, amongst other products. Such as 1.3 dma, tyrosine, rhodiola rosea, dimethylglycine,…
They all basically work on the same adrenal gland, in various ways.

Note : adrenal glands can exhaust. take in enough vitamin C and B to prevent this. a simple cheap vitamin blend from the supermarket can do. for value's check below


Non preworkout supplements

Vitamins
Should use a vitamin blend, allways. 200+% daily dose for vitamin c, vitamins b is required.
500mg magnesium(oxide) and 250mgcalcium(carbonate), 200% daily dose zinc, are amongst the most important ones.

Protein
Take protein troughout the day to keep nitrogen flowing trough the system. Whey is faster, casseine lasts longer. I prefer blends that have all 6 kinds of protein. Make sure you get 50 grams in before you sleep, and when you wake up. Those are most critical. Eat right after training some meat and potatoes.

Doping
Its expensive, its dangerous, it can harm you significantly. If you’re not a pro, why bother. And if you are one, why cheat ? regardless, if you have questions about it, give me a pm rather then starting something that will potentially kill you or your social life.


sorry for the wall of text, i hope this helps some people who have questions about nutrition. DO NOT ever believe marketting. dont ever buy a product on wich the fat head of a pro bodybuilder is on.
 

Buy on AliExpress.com

Zacheryah

Senior Member
Aug 29, 2010
42,251
As a first or only supplement, whey protein is allways an excellent choise.
gold standard is an excellent brand, altho i settle with a regular brand that offers the same isolate whey :p

taking a shake after training is a nice way to begin. but dont forget to eat enough good meals during the day !
 

Juve_fanatic

Second coolest member!
Apr 5, 2006
7,561
I go to the gym 3 times per week, bench 135kg, squat 200kg, deadlift 240kg last week. Didnt knew that made me a noob

eating 30/40 minutes before training is plain WRONG, your stomache is still filled, the sugar isnt in the mucle glycogene yet, and if you actually do a lift with a considerable weight, you are killing your full stomache with the stress and pressure from the lift.

chocolate ? thats the worst possible thing to eat if you want to avoid insuline peaking. chocolate does just that.
I said MINIMUM. That means that if you eat then its somewhat tolerable. I didnt mean TO EAT every time, 30/40 minutes before training. Many times i just have to rush things because im short on time with my work and all, so i cant wait and hour or 1.5 hours after i eat. I was just saying that anything bellow 30/40 minutes is not only WRONG but could even make you sick and throw up during training. I should have been more specific, sorry.

Going to the gym 3 times a week is fine, i didn't say it wasnt. I said 3 times is not much when you are taking creatine. I was talking about that certain situation, not in general.

And regarding the weights, if you can bench, squat or deadlift that much, without any notable problems then by all means do it. You could in fact increase that if you start to feel that those weights become easy for you or if you feel that you can do more. The question was "what advice would you give to a beginner" and that is the "target group" of my advice. I know because i have seen many beginners rushing into things simply because they feel ashamed that they cant lift as much as the more experienced. I hope you understand what im saying. Im talking about beginners here.

And the chocolate part is something i disagree with you(partially). When you work-out your blood sugar level drops significantly cause your muscles require a lot of sugar during the training process because you "spend" the muscle and the muscle needs to regenerate. Couple of times when i was starting to work out, i felt really dizzy and a bit sick during training so i immediately stopped, told my best friend (who is much much more experienced than me) and he said, go buy a chocolate, quickly. My blood sugar level has fallen very low and my body was telling me that i need sugar at once, and the best way to do it was by eating something sugary. Now, for a beginner, who still hasnt developed his muscles, whose body isnt that used to the "shocks" of weight lifting, dont you think that it would be good to have a chocolate bar with him in training?
 

Zacheryah

Senior Member
Aug 29, 2010
42,251
No, because of the insuline peak, wich is bad for muscle building, recovery, and wasted energy.

I would tell any beginner, to eat rice or pasta at noon, and take 50 grams of oak 1/2 houre before training, preferably in a shake, but can do without.

Then, get +1gram of taurine in his system.


the price of all that, will be cheaper then chocolate bars
 

Zacheryah

Senior Member
Aug 29, 2010
42,251
oak? really :p

on a serious note, whats all this talk about arginine and NO?
Oat, man i allways mix those up !


About the other thing, i just listed what ingredients a good preworkout should contain.

citruline malate is a precursor of arginine, and arginine is a precursor of NO.

thats good, because they create musclepump trough forcing the bloodvessels open for a longer time, improving nutrient shutteling and recovery rate.


on a sad note, i injured the rotator cuff today. Military presses will be impossible for the comming month, benchpress ... hope i can continue ... will need a spotter to rack and unrack the bar for me cause else i might end up tearing it
 

Zacheryah

Senior Member
Aug 29, 2010
42,251
If you lift a real weight, nitrogen balance becomes a factor in recovery

For powerlifters, recovery is extremely important.

If you would try a powerlifting schedule for a few months untill you do some good weights, you'd know
 

Zacheryah

Senior Member
Aug 29, 2010
42,251
No idea why powerlift. Gain strength? I hate seeing those guys that lift once 350lbs but look like a magic wand.
pushing through plateaus, battle with self

I started of doing bodybuilding, but didnt enjoy it. I need that competitive part, that battle with yourself as deneb describes. i want to make that weight.

Doing it, has another feeling. squatting near 200 kilograms, you feel all that pressure, getting it up, its a massive feeling, and a strange feeling on exhaustion. you recover from the massive pressure that your body felt during the rep.

in addition, i allways wanted a muscle to represent power. my forearms are 34cm around, biceps are 44. Thats not quite much compared to my chest and shoulders. alot of people have more.
However, if i deadlift 220+ kg's, wich chalk, grip isnt really an issue for me, because they are strong enough, were most of the people that have bigger arms, can hardly hold a weight of 200 kilograms, let alone lift it from the ground.


And the feeling that you are breaking a plateau, is just goddamn amazing.
 

Juve_fanatic

Second coolest member!
Apr 5, 2006
7,561
Too much science behind lifting weights for no reason.
:agree:

- - - Updated - - -

No idea why powerlift. Gain strength? I hate seeing those guys that lift once 350lbs but look like a magic wand.
lol There are two guys in the gym where i workout and they do powerlifting. They are brothers and one of them looks like magic wand (bent on the top) and the other is fat and with a really bad body shape. Powerlifting is the dumbest thing to do, especially when you are in your mid twenties.
 

Zacheryah

Senior Member
Aug 29, 2010
42,251
Please respect other people's choise of training, and refrain from calling it "dumb" when you dont know a fuck about it.
And seriously, stop basing that opinion based on 2 guys. i can link you a video of a guy doing 47*110 kg benchpress, he weights 170+kg and uses his chest as a spring to bounce it. the bar drops 20/30cm into his fat. Its a horrible example. Also, powerlifting has weight cathegories.

Powerlifting has numerous benefits. You create much stronger skeleton muscle and core, and a stronger back in general. Plenty of accidents to the back caused by for example a carcrash, will heal significantly faster when your back is stronger.
You will build extremely strong positional muscles, because of this, the chance of getting injured by odd things, significantly decreases.
Combined with a medium asperine dose, its very beneficial for the cardio vascular system, as it adapts to the immense pressure's, while the added asperine works agains clodding.
Powerlifting squat, is good for the knees, opposed by the bodybuilding front squat, wich can cause potentially serious knee injuries.

I know people who want to build mass, much muscle and no fat.
People like Dule that want to be fit and look healty and muscular
People like Deneb or my brother in law that dont neccecarely focus on powerlifting, but strenght in general and have a pretty strong benchpress
People like me who like powerlifting
People who like casual training, because its healty

In the end, working out is allways good, and you must pick the kind that you prefer. The only importances are, good form, good diet(sort of), and good sleeping.

oh, and no barbel curl in the squat rack, those can die in a fire, seriously
 

Dostoevsky

Tzu
Administrator
May 27, 2007
88,444
Oh I'm not bashing, sorry if you thought that. I'm dissing powerlifting only when I see guys that weight like 60kg but lift 10x times more. Only the fact that they didn't build an ounce of muscle while doing one rep max always. Just those skinny guys, I just find it weird, that's all.
 

Zacheryah

Senior Member
Aug 29, 2010
42,251
Oh I'm not bashing, sorry if you thought that. I'm dissing powerlifting only when I see guys that weight like 60kg but lift 10x times more. Only the fact that they didn't build an ounce of muscle while doing one rep max always. Just those skinny guys, I just find it weird, that's all.
No worries man, was referring to fanatic claiming powerlifting is "the dumbest thing to do"


I myself am the "not so lean" guy who disses skinny guys showing of abs.

Beeing skinny and having abs doesnt count. with a low enough fat%, nearly everyone has abs.

however, a regular or healty low person that works out often, and has build a nice pack of muscular abs, THAT is hard

Its about the right diet, training, cardio and dedication.
I got respect for that. I know a few guys who are build like that, and how hard they have to work out for it.


Silly example, jason stackhouse from "true blood". people dont realise the sick amount of work that it takes to build a physique like that
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 47)