Gonzalo Higuaín (47 apps, 8 goals in CL and 43% chance conversion rate) (26 Viewers)
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Because you go making statements like this:
When really that's impossible at this stage without agreeing to every demand. The only big deals I see so far are from the oil clubs paying inflated transfer fees and presumably wages.
A basic agreement can mean 10% of the way through negotiating a big deal like this, I assume this is where we differ in opinion.
You say wages are not a stumbling block because we may have had this basic agreement, but we are not the only club after them. When you consider Agüero is now on €12m and Van Persie €14m, wages are not so much a stumbling block as a whole mountain range. It doesn't matter if the player likes the idea of coming here and thinks the €6m, €7m or whatever we are offering is fair. We aren't going to compete with those sort of wages so the deal never really got started.
'We should have wrapped the deal up early', doesn't work for us on these deals. There was never the possibility of doing that without a big fee and top wages, there never is, because top players, agents and clubs know what these guys cost. None of them are going to jump into bed with Juventus when they can get double the money elsewhere, they're not stupid.
I've said it time and again, but unless there are some special conditions we can only sign the guys who the mega rich do not want.
I'm quite sure we have been talking for some time, but I don't share the optimistic take on talks. I noticed you were very positive on this one early on when it was based on even less, so we'll just see how it pans out.
That's not how I read into your posts, if you expect early closure of deals. That seems naïve at best.
See my reply above for dealing with top end deals. Our situation doesn't change, we can only offer our terms. Higuain is within our terms for the figures mentioned, if he moves out of it with another offer the deal is dead, but I don't expect Arsenal to be the club to do that. If it was City or PSG after him I wouldn't even pay attention to Higuain.
Then why do you not agree with signing Ogbonna first? If it's not about allocating money do you think we negotiate each transfer at a time? It's obvious Ogbonna is not the priority, just because we might sign him first. That's because it is an easier transfer to negotiate. That should be pretty obvious. Besides, Llorente is too easily forgotten.
Both Asamoah and Giovinco added to our squad, we just come back to the big striker situation. We didn't get our man last year, that's been spoken about more times than I care to remember.
When really that's impossible at this stage without agreeing to every demand. The only big deals I see so far are from the oil clubs paying inflated transfer fees and presumably wages.
A basic agreement can mean 10% of the way through negotiating a big deal like this, I assume this is where we differ in opinion.
You say wages are not a stumbling block because we may have had this basic agreement, but we are not the only club after them. When you consider Agüero is now on €12m and Van Persie €14m, wages are not so much a stumbling block as a whole mountain range. It doesn't matter if the player likes the idea of coming here and thinks the €6m, €7m or whatever we are offering is fair. We aren't going to compete with those sort of wages so the deal never really got started.
'We should have wrapped the deal up early', doesn't work for us on these deals. There was never the possibility of doing that without a big fee and top wages, there never is, because top players, agents and clubs know what these guys cost. None of them are going to jump into bed with Juventus when they can get double the money elsewhere, they're not stupid.
I've said it time and again, but unless there are some special conditions we can only sign the guys who the mega rich do not want.
I'm quite sure we have been talking for some time, but I don't share the optimistic take on talks. I noticed you were very positive on this one early on when it was based on even less, so we'll just see how it pans out.
That's not how I read into your posts, if you expect early closure of deals. That seems naïve at best.
See my reply above for dealing with top end deals. Our situation doesn't change, we can only offer our terms. Higuain is within our terms for the figures mentioned, if he moves out of it with another offer the deal is dead, but I don't expect Arsenal to be the club to do that. If it was City or PSG after him I wouldn't even pay attention to Higuain.
Then why do you not agree with signing Ogbonna first? If it's not about allocating money do you think we negotiate each transfer at a time? It's obvious Ogbonna is not the priority, just because we might sign him first. That's because it is an easier transfer to negotiate. That should be pretty obvious. Besides, Llorente is too easily forgotten.
Both Asamoah and Giovinco added to our squad, we just come back to the big striker situation. We didn't get our man last year, that's been spoken about more times than I care to remember.
This could be the greatest player Marotta has signed in his life, it would set new horizons for his currently limited abilities.
He would start getting some international recognition.
And even Juventus would benefit from such a prestigious transfer, actually the whole serie A, that lies on the ropes right now.
And all this without regarding the major upgrade for the performance of our weak, as our finishing issues are clearly our greatest weakness.
For all these reasons and more, this transfers deserves a 27mil investment!
He would start getting some international recognition.
And even Juventus would benefit from such a prestigious transfer, actually the whole serie A, that lies on the ropes right now.
And all this without regarding the major upgrade for the performance of our weak, as our finishing issues are clearly our greatest weakness.
For all these reasons and more, this transfers deserves a 27mil investment!
When going after an RvP or Aguero, we full well know that we won't be the only club after them. We have brandished our motto of not entering into bidding wars more than once. So what then causes us to waste our time offering those 6-7m to those players when we don't intend to get within the asking range of their clubs? Marrotta said it himself last year that he regretted the way the RvP deal played out. We were nowhere close to the asking price even though there was an agreement with the player. We spent up until the middle of August chasing that player without being realistic given that even you as a fan know we can't get the guys the mega rich clubs want. That is the reason why we have panic bought every mercato summer that Marrotta has been here. Bendtner was never on the agenda last year, let alone squabbling with Siena for his signature. Nor was Jojo, mind you. Not at 30m. But it came it came to that. We are free to disagree about this, but I fault our approach when chasing the big guns. Be it for the time we spend, the budget we allocate.
If closing the deal early is not going to work for us with the big guns, then I don't know what is. Because the last time I checked, we played out all of August on those big names we chased over the last couple of summers to end up with the likes of Bendtner and Borriello. Au contraire, a club like Juve that doesn't have the spend power of the oil rich clubs or the Madrids and Barca's, not only need a head start on the negotiations, but also need to close the deals early, without holding out for our terms, because those terms will never exist in the modern day game, as every talented kid coming through as a seasonal draft or players nearing the end of contracts will always have more illustrious options simply because the league isn't helping Juve's cause at this point in time. That means, we take a bit of a hit on the financials of a deal, but close that player with intent IF he is integral to our strategy from a commercial and tactical perspective. You're right, I am very positive on this one, as I am with the Jojo deal as well. It's just my reading of the situation. Again, you are free to disagree with this thinking.
Our position in the Higuain deal is stronger before Real have a new coach, and are a bit headless on the way forward. Regardless though, my reading of this is that the new coach will not change anything for them and the player will leave whether for Juve or elsewhere. His will is extremely important and he knows he won't find the continuity with Ronaldo around, and with Benzema being a Perez favorite, he's bound to be the fall guy. It's very similar to how we moved on the Llorente front. We moved early, convinced him of the project and kept at it. He is not anymore a Juve fan than a Man City or Barca fan, and being free, all of them could've come calling, but we beat them to it coz we moved quickly.
Llorente is not forgotten, but I don't think he is going to be enough coming on the back of the season that he's had and playing for a new team in a presumably new system (dunno what Bilbao play), is going to require a lot of time and patience to adapt. My issue with the the Ogbonna deal is that it is time spent chasing another transfer when our first priroty is closing the striker and LwB just like it was last year. We still arent accountable for the Isla deal which wasnt priority, but we watsed time and money closing that, when all those man hours couldve been spent chasing a Dzeko for instance, when City actually had the time and inclination to sell him. My point is simple. We are not going to get a big game player if we wait for the mercato to play out and let other parties get involved. It weakens our position because we are not financially capable of dealing with more variables. We had 30m for Jojo last season, didn't we? So if Higuain is really our no,1 target, we have set aside a budget for that transfer, we should be looking to close that with a bid that Madrid will likely accept 22-25m. Maybe you don't agree with the approach, I'm not saying you need to. But it is the unfortunate reality of this Juve. We aren't going to get anyone on our terms, and certainly not by leaving it late.
If closing the deal early is not going to work for us with the big guns, then I don't know what is. Because the last time I checked, we played out all of August on those big names we chased over the last couple of summers to end up with the likes of Bendtner and Borriello. Au contraire, a club like Juve that doesn't have the spend power of the oil rich clubs or the Madrids and Barca's, not only need a head start on the negotiations, but also need to close the deals early, without holding out for our terms, because those terms will never exist in the modern day game, as every talented kid coming through as a seasonal draft or players nearing the end of contracts will always have more illustrious options simply because the league isn't helping Juve's cause at this point in time. That means, we take a bit of a hit on the financials of a deal, but close that player with intent IF he is integral to our strategy from a commercial and tactical perspective. You're right, I am very positive on this one, as I am with the Jojo deal as well. It's just my reading of the situation. Again, you are free to disagree with this thinking.
Our position in the Higuain deal is stronger before Real have a new coach, and are a bit headless on the way forward. Regardless though, my reading of this is that the new coach will not change anything for them and the player will leave whether for Juve or elsewhere. His will is extremely important and he knows he won't find the continuity with Ronaldo around, and with Benzema being a Perez favorite, he's bound to be the fall guy. It's very similar to how we moved on the Llorente front. We moved early, convinced him of the project and kept at it. He is not anymore a Juve fan than a Man City or Barca fan, and being free, all of them could've come calling, but we beat them to it coz we moved quickly.
Llorente is not forgotten, but I don't think he is going to be enough coming on the back of the season that he's had and playing for a new team in a presumably new system (dunno what Bilbao play), is going to require a lot of time and patience to adapt. My issue with the the Ogbonna deal is that it is time spent chasing another transfer when our first priroty is closing the striker and LwB just like it was last year. We still arent accountable for the Isla deal which wasnt priority, but we watsed time and money closing that, when all those man hours couldve been spent chasing a Dzeko for instance, when City actually had the time and inclination to sell him. My point is simple. We are not going to get a big game player if we wait for the mercato to play out and let other parties get involved. It weakens our position because we are not financially capable of dealing with more variables. We had 30m for Jojo last season, didn't we? So if Higuain is really our no,1 target, we have set aside a budget for that transfer, we should be looking to close that with a bid that Madrid will likely accept 22-25m. Maybe you don't agree with the approach, I'm not saying you need to. But it is the unfortunate reality of this Juve. We aren't going to get anyone on our terms, and certainly not by leaving it late.
@baggio
In Zach's alternate morbid reality, where people are still dying of the plague, and AIDS has morphed into an airborne virus, signing players before July is a statistical impossibility. In that world 90% of the population are ginger, 30% suffer from roid rage, and blacks and Arabs are considered inferior peasants and idiots (they also live in slums and shitty shacks).
In Zach's alternate morbid reality, where people are still dying of the plague, and AIDS has morphed into an airborne virus, signing players before July is a statistical impossibility. In that world 90% of the population are ginger, 30% suffer from roid rage, and blacks and Arabs are considered inferior peasants and idiots (they also live in slums and shitty shacks).
In zach's world, there are teams that have to worry about every penny, and those who dont.
For the bigger deals, only the very high turnover teams and loloilteams, sign early, cause they'll just pay what the other team demands.
Regular teams like ours, need to negiotiate that price down to an acceptable level.
For the bigger deals, only the very high turnover teams and loloilteams, sign early, cause they'll just pay what the other team demands.
Regular teams like ours, need to negiotiate that price down to an acceptable level.
Why wouldnt we wait till RM get a new manager? It took Marotta until the end of the mercato to get Bendtner. That being said these two players and deals are totally different. I honestly think that Higuain is the prime target of this mercato and all these links and discussions of Tevez and Jovetic are only Marotta trying to struck a deal without spending more than 20m. I see this deal going through because Juve so far are the only club to hold discussions with RM and even if they didnt establish a deal or anything the fact that we are the only club means that we are the ones who can fuck this deal up at this point. Marotta should try to get Tevez or Jovetic cheaper however this deal for Higuain will not be around forever and he is the player we need at the moment and is worth spending a little more than what Marotta usually spends.
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