Global Warming Discussion (5 Viewers)

ALC

Ohaulick
Oct 28, 2010
45,997
Technology has gotten cleaner and is the cleanest it's ever been, he has a point there. But we're also using it to a bigger extent. Cars, ships, and airplanes back in the day produced a lot more emissions. But now we have so many more of them going around that imo the improvement isn't keeping up.

But yeah, that stuff does keep economies going. Producing stuff at the cheapest cost and largest number is the main factor nowadays. However, that leads to cutting corners in any aspect possible. Some people will say that's the way it should be and that we need a free market. Yeah, but I only agree to a certain extent.

There should be regulations as far as impact on environment is concerned. There already are but they're barely enforced and they're not strict enough. And with more regulations, you reward innovation and a better world. You can't just narrow your entire field of vision to economy. There's a lot more aspects to a successful nation/country/continent than just economy.
 

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Fred

Senior Member
Oct 2, 2003
41,113
Anyone else no longer used to ALC making a serious and intelligent post, throughout the time i was reading it i was expecting some kind of punchline :D
 

ZoSo

TSUUUUUUU
Jul 11, 2011
41,646
Technology has gotten cleaner and is the cleanest it's ever been, he has a point there. But we're also using it to a bigger extent. Cars, ships, and airplanes back in the day produced a lot more emissions. But now we have so many more of them going around that imo the improvement isn't keeping up.

But yeah, that stuff does keep economies going. Producing stuff at the cheapest cost and largest number is the main factor nowadays. However, that leads to cutting corners in any aspect possible. Some people will say that's the way it should be and that we need a free market. Yeah, but I only agree to a certain extent.

There should be regulations as far as impact on environment is concerned. There already are but they're barely enforced and they're not strict enough. And with more regulations, you reward innovation and a better world. You can't just narrow your entire field of vision to economy. There's a lot more aspects to a successful nation/country/continent than just economy.
I don't know if it's true but apparently the biggest 15 or so container ships in the world pollute more than all the cars in the world combined
 
OP

Hust

Senior Member
Hustini
May 29, 2005
93,350
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #284
    Technology has gotten cleaner and is the cleanest it's ever been, he has a point there. But we're also using it to a bigger extent. Cars, ships, and airplanes back in the day produced a lot more emissions. But now we have so many more of them going around that imo the improvement isn't keeping up.

    But yeah, that stuff does keep economies going. Producing stuff at the cheapest cost and largest number is the main factor nowadays. However, that leads to cutting corners in any aspect possible. Some people will say that's the way it should be and that we need a free market. Yeah, but I only agree to a certain extent.

    There should be regulations as far as impact on environment is concerned. There already are but they're barely enforced and they're not strict enough. And with more regulations, you reward innovation and a better world. You can't just narrow your entire field of vision to economy. There's a lot more aspects to a successful nation/country/continent than just economy.
    Since you seem to be the only one not insulting I will continue this convo with you:

    -The US follows more environmental regulations than pretty much everyone else to the point other countries (like China) are outpacing us for manufacturing. The cost of production for the US goes sky high compared to China. And since we are in competition with China for the largest economy, all these endless rules and regs getting thrown into US production lines is hurting us. Most of these retarded regulations are only used to generate money and have little impact on carbon emissions. Take car emissions inspections, for example: In VA you need to spend I think 32-42 dollars every year or two to prove your car meets carbon footprint guidelines. Wither you have a 30 year old gas guzzler or brand spanking new hybrid Prius you still need to pay.

    -You can also blame partially US automakers for their retarded policy (and failures that WE had to bail out) for making giant gas guzzling cars. But guess who bailed them out? The feds. People got smarter when gas went up in price they wanted smaller more efficient cars (Japanese or German) instead of those good ol' V8 Hemmies. Shitty cars with shitty designs should have gone bankrupt and redesigned their entire process but instead were given a bail out. It is no coincidence you see more Prius than other US hybrids out there.

    -You say there should be regulations as far as impact on the environment? Dude, there are thousands. Like I said before, coal burning & fossil fuel burning technologies are better than ever and a lot of R & D money goes into making it better but this administration has literally crushed those jobs costing thousands of jobs for people here. Go to a mining town in Kentucky or WV and see how bad it is now. The EPA is easily a political organization. And these regs are enforced to the point of costing people jobs.

    -There's a lot more aspects to a successful nation/country/continent than just economy. Like? If their aren't any jobs, you know, how do you provide for a family or for yourself? With jobs you can run business to make technologies better and improve science, for example. Can't do that without jobs and or funding that comes taxing people with jobs. There is a reason why the US and parts of Europe and Asia with robust economies are light years ahead of countries like, well look in South America or Central America. If their way of life was better they wouldn't be moving to said countries.

    -How can you reward innovation when too much regulations can hinder that?
     

    ALC

    Ohaulick
    Oct 28, 2010
    45,997
    I don't know if it's true but apparently the biggest 15 or so container ships in the world pollute more than all the cars in the world combined
    I've read about something like that too. I wouldn't be surprised since they use very unrefined diesel, cruise around all day, and have huge engines. Like the site of buildings haha.

    Since you seem to be the only one not insulting I will continue this convo with you:

    -The US follows more environmental regulations than pretty much everyone else to the point other countries (like China) are outpacing us for manufacturing. The cost of production for the US goes sky high compared to China. And since we are in competition with China for the largest economy, all these endless rules and regs getting thrown into US production lines is hurting us. Most of these retarded regulations are only used to generate money and have little impact on carbon emissions. Take car emissions inspections, for example: In VA you need to spend I think 32-42 dollars every year or two to prove your car meets carbon footprint guidelines. Wither you have a 30 year old gas guzzler or brand spanking new hybrid Prius you still need to pay.

    -You can also blame partially US automakers for their retarded policy (and failures that WE had to bail out) for making giant gas guzzling cars. But guess who bailed them out? The feds. People got smarter when gas went up in price they wanted smaller more efficient cars (Japanese or German) instead of those good ol' V8 Hemmies. Shitty cars with shitty designs should have gone bankrupt and redesigned their entire process but instead were given a bail out. It is no coincidence you see more Prius than other US hybrids out there.

    -You say there should be regulations as far as impact on the environment? Dude, there are thousands. Like I said before, coal burning & fossil fuel burning technologies are better than ever and a lot of R & D money goes into making it better but this administration has literally crushed those jobs costing thousands of jobs for people here. Go to a mining town in Kentucky or WV and see how bad it is now. The EPA is easily a political organization. And these regs are enforced to the point of costing people jobs.

    -There's a lot more aspects to a successful nation/country/continent than just economy. Like? If their aren't any jobs, you know, how do you provide for a family or for yourself? With jobs you can run business to make technologies better and improve science, for example. Can't do that without jobs and or funding that comes taxing people with jobs. There is a reason why the US and parts of Europe and Asia with robust economies are light years ahead of countries like, well look in South America or Central America. If their way of life was better they wouldn't be moving to said countries.

    -How can you reward innovation when too much regulations can hinder that?
    We follow more regulations than China, that's true. You can't just generalize on all regulations and say most of them are retarded. A lot of them keep companies from dumping waste on rivers and disposing of trash improperly. You have to keep in mind some chemicals they use have really long half-lives and will have serious side-effects on the surrounding environment. If stuff goes on a river, that shit will spread as far as that river does.

    Car emissions are stupid, I'll give you that. That's something I find unnecessary also, but it's not a regulation on production. They should be part of your inspection. And if your state doesn't have an inspection it should, because I've driven to places they don't and seen cars I would be terrified of getting stuck behind.

    Also yeah, those car companies should not have been bailed out. I 100% agree.

    What jobs are you saying the administration crushed when it comes to coal mining? Coal mining jobs? Maybe that's because there's not a big need for coal anymore. If you think the US automakers should've been left to rot, why is the coal mining business any different?

    I guess maybe I didn't quite state that economy thing properly. I'm not saying there is no need for an economy, period. I'm not saying there's no need for jobs and so on. I'm saying I would rather we focus on making quality product that'll last longer, uses cleaner manufacturing practices, and has more thought going behind it than just cranking out as much as possible of something just to gain the upper hand in the market. Not to mention how many companies engineer their product to barely last just so they can keep making more in the future.

    And innovation is rewarded by limits, not hindered. Never heard that quote "Necessity is the mother of invention"?
     

    Enron

    Tickle Me
    Moderator
    Oct 11, 2005
    75,252
    -You say there should be regulations as far as impact on the environment? Dude, there are thousands. Like I said before, coal burning & fossil fuel burning technologies are better than ever and a lot of R & D money goes into making it better but this administration has literally crushed those jobs costing thousands of jobs for people here. Go to a mining town in Kentucky or WV and see how bad it is now. The EPA is easily a political organization. And these regs are enforced to the point of costing people jobs.

    -There's a lot more aspects to a successful nation/country/continent than just economy. Like? If their aren't any jobs, you know, how do you provide for a family or for yourself? With jobs you can run business to make technologies better and improve science, for example. Can't do that without jobs and or funding that comes taxing people with jobs. There is a reason why the US and parts of Europe and Asia with robust economies are light years ahead of countries like, well look in South America or Central America. If their way of life was better they wouldn't be moving to said countries.
    That's not really a consequence of the EPA's regulations. Poverty in mining areas is mostly due to technological advances and automation within the industry. For example, a mine that required 1,000 workers in the 1970s, can mine more coal with about 80 people running things. The biggest employer in the mining industry is transportation of coal via truck, even that is declining these days. The biggest cause of impovershed towns in appalachia is when all the coal in an area is mined the coal companies pull out, leaving a community once dependent on the industry with nothing. That's more a problem of the states. For example, West Virginia has done a terrible job of integrating their technology and jobs portfolios, partly due to the industry´s hold on the legislature. The result of which is that the biggest in employer in West Virginia being Wal Mart. As far as environmental regulations, we're probably one of the least regulated states in the union. In fact, after the biggest chemical spill in our history, the legislature passed one of the strictest environmental regulations ever in our state. It stated that you could not store chemicals a certain distance from a body of water and not upstream from a water treatment facility. In addition, it required chemical storage facilities to be inspected once a decade (there previously was no standard for inspection). This year, our republican legislature repealled those "harsh" restrictions because "businesses will use common sense to make sure nothing like that happens again". Well, we've already had 2 smaller chemical spills and we're still poor and Wal Mart is still the state's largest employer.
     
    OP

    Hust

    Senior Member
    Hustini
    May 29, 2005
    93,350
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #288
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...un-sleep-2020-cause-temperatures-plummet.html

    I'm sorry I can resist. :D

    - - - Updated - - -

    I've read about something like that too. I wouldn't be surprised since they use very unrefined diesel, cruise around all day, and have huge engines. Like the site of buildings haha.



    We follow more regulations than China, that's true. You can't just generalize on all regulations and say most of them are retarded. A lot of them keep companies from dumping waste on rivers and disposing of trash improperly. You have to keep in mind some chemicals they use have really long half-lives and will have serious side-effects on the surrounding environment. If stuff goes on a river, that shit will spread as far as that river does.

    Car emissions are stupid, I'll give you that. That's something I find unnecessary also, but it's not a regulation on production. They should be part of your inspection. And if your state doesn't have an inspection it should, because I've driven to places they don't and seen cars I would be terrified of getting stuck behind.

    Also yeah, those car companies should not have been bailed out. I 100% agree.

    What jobs are you saying the administration crushed when it comes to coal mining? Coal mining jobs? Maybe that's because there's not a big need for coal anymore. If you think the US automakers should've been left to rot, why is the coal mining business any different?

    I guess maybe I didn't quite state that economy thing properly. I'm not saying there is no need for an economy, period. I'm not saying there's no need for jobs and so on. I'm saying I would rather we focus on making quality product that'll last longer, uses cleaner manufacturing practices, and has more thought going behind it than just cranking out as much as possible of something just to gain the upper hand in the market. Not to mention how many companies engineer their product to barely last just so they can keep making more in the future.

    And innovation is rewarded by limits, not hindered. Never heard that quote "Necessity is the mother of invention"?
    The coal minners didn't run the risk of bankruptcy for failed business policy that's why they should be given more support than the failed US auto industry. The US industries are pioneers in making things greener, mind you. US cars are getting better I think but they don't last nearly as long as a Japenese car. You mention things engineered to last a short time, well, I would point more fingers at Mexico/China than I ever would our own industries. If anything, companies need to be creative to make things more cost-effective and efficient just to keep up with rising costs of production for things we are talking about: regulations/fines.

    As for your last comment:
    If you think the US automakers should've been left to rot, why is the coal mining business any different?
    Bankruptcy court can be a savior because it doesn't completely shut a company down. It forces a reshuffle of the deck and make the company stop the "rot" from within and redesign completely their business plans. I never wanted US car companies to rot, I wanted them redesigned t make them better but on THEIR OWN dime. It was their mistake, why make us pay for it? BO made the bailouts political IMO. Most average Americans don't know that bankruptcy CAN be a good thing in the long run. Its like give a bigger credit card to your daughter who maxed out a smaller one and then give her a slap on the wrist for it.
     

    ALC

    Ohaulick
    Oct 28, 2010
    45,997
    Why would you point fingers at Mexico and China? They don't engineer the stuff, they just build them with the specifications and BOM given by the customer. The customer is who approves the final product.
     
    OP

    Hust

    Senior Member
    Hustini
    May 29, 2005
    93,350
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #290
    Why would you point fingers at Mexico and China? They don't engineer the stuff, they just build them with the specifications and BOM given by the customer. The customer is who approves the final product.
    im not only talking about cars ALC :D
     

    ALC

    Ohaulick
    Oct 28, 2010
    45,997
    im not only talking about cars ALC :D
    Me neither, if anything cars are the one thing that has improved as far as longevity :D

    And I understand what you meant by the bailout thing and your concern over the mining industry. Imo, the mining companies ran their course. We are over the time where people will dig underground, risk death etc. That's a past time and they have been replaced by technology. Good riddance if anything.
     
    OP

    Hust

    Senior Member
    Hustini
    May 29, 2005
    93,350
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #292
    Me neither, if anything cars are the one thing that has improved as far as longevity :D

    And I understand what you meant by the bailout thing and your concern over the mining industry. Imo, the mining companies ran their course. We are over the time where people will dig underground, risk death etc. That's a past time and they have been replaced by technology. Good riddance if anything.
    I still think Coal has a big part in smaller rural communities. Yes, its dirty, but that doesn't meant the current technology can't become better.

    Then we agree on US cars: slowly getting better.
     

    ALC

    Ohaulick
    Oct 28, 2010
    45,997
    US cars have definitely gotten better, but so have almost all cars.

    There is a lot of innovation coming from Ford and GM lately tho. I see them doing just fine when it comes to producing quality cars.


    Coal may play a part in rural communities but it doesn't play a big part nationwide imo. I'm sure small communities who rely on coal can find another industry to get behind.
     

    Raz

    Senior Member
    Nov 20, 2005
    12,218
    I don't know about you guys, but I love this global warming. Second autumn in a row not cold, and we don't have that shitty snow falling every single winter now, just few snowflakes here and there. I say keep warming the planet until I can get local pineapples.
     

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