Giuseppe Marotta (20 Viewers)

[Lion]

transition or no transition, juventus cannot afford a bad year. by bad year i mean missing out on direct CL qualification, so finishing minimum 2nd

why? because finishing CL finalists and almost winning a trebele didnt want to make world class players join us. same way world class players didn't want us after finishing 7th. this would mean we would have to start over new.

missing out on CL would mean massive financial losses that juventus cannot afford. it also means our best players like pogba, morata and others will leave. meaning we would have to start over new, with likely a weaker possibly non competitive team.

 

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[Ahmed]

Agreed, cheap trolling wont be tolerated

this was worth an infraction?

what a moron.

 

[Rollie]

Baus there is only one way and one way only to judge football. On the pitch, until we stop sucking and become even half of the consistently unstoppable force we been for years, then I can pick up the pom poms with you and start cheering on the strength of this squad. Until then, hot air to dream about how good/stronger it looks on paper, it's really just madness for me to entertain this notion based on results. I can be positive and hopeful about the potential of the squad. But it means jack shit until they start showing it on the regular. It's that simple for me, I highly object to saying it's stronger then last season based on the facts, only last week me and many here were seriously discussing firing Allegri after just 1 win out of 6...

Zamparini, is that you? That was such crazy talk going on in that thread, and you know it.

6 games, for a coach who damn near lead our team to its first treble, in his first year? C'mon.

Wtf does Conte have to do with it? There's not an aota of logic in saying this squad is stronger when they are failing hard so far in the league, how difficult is it to grasp that? You actually have to show it on the pitch, not just dream away by how wonderful it looks on paper.

Good squads do show it on the pitch.

What's also not incredibly difficult to grasp, when one lives/breathes the club the way you do my friend, is that there have been very obvious circumstances that have contributed to our poor start. Circumstances that we largely appear to be moving beyond (injuries, lack of tactical identity, excessive rotation/lack of chemistry).

It's pretty clear that the Udinese, Chievo, and Frosinone results are not indicative of the quality on the roster. They're indicative of a late start, an injury crisis (particularly in midfield), 10 new players, a manager who was still trying to figure out what he had, etc.

I think we should also just acknowledge that, psychologically, it's bloody hard to win 5 consecutive scudetti for any team. Not to mention the fact that teams in all sports often suffer a letdown to start the year after an intense championship season, because it's draining and typically accompanied by a shorter offseason. Happens all the time.

Is it not surprising if there's a bit of a letdown to start the year, given the circumstances you're aware of?

If you said last year that we had a stronger 'squad' than Real Madrid, a lot of people would tell you that you're crazy -- even now. But we beat Madrid, right? Our results were better. Well, on paper Madrid definitely had a better squad then us, but on the pitch, our well oiled machine managed to do the job (with a little help from the crossbar).

The best squads don't always win (particularly in knockout competitions). If they did, there wouldn't be much point in watching sports.

PS: We're still winning the Scudetto this year.

 

[Fake Melo]

this was worth an infraction?

what a moron.

Post reported.

 

[.zero]

Post reported.

 

[Bianconero_Aus]

On paper, this squad is clearly stronger. Defense and GK positions are better with the Alex Sandro, Rugani, and Neto signings. Midfield is better with Marchisio in the center and Khedira as a starter instead of Pirlo, who was finished. Depth in midfield is also better (Asamoah, Lemina, Pereyra, Hernanes, Sturaro vs. Pereyra, Sturaro, Padoin). We only had two good attacking players last year in Tevez and Morata. We lost our best player, Tevez, but we have three good attackers this season in Cuadrado, Morata, and Dybala, and Mandzukic is also a much better backup than Llorente.

While on paper the current squad is clearly superior to last season's, you also have to take into account that we lost a lot of chemistry (4 seasons' worth) and leadership, and a team with 10 new players also needs time to gel.

All in all, taking everything into account, the current team is on the same level as last year's.


We lost so many points at the start because we had three of our four best midfielders missing (Marchisio, Khedira, Asamoah), Lemina and Hernanes hadn't been signed yet, we needed time to gel, Allegri needed to find the right tactical solutions, Dybala wasn't starting yet, and we also were unlucky with finishing. When you have Padoin and Sturaro starting in your midfield, losing some points really shouldn't come as a surprise. Any team missing three of its four best midfielders would struggle.

exactly what I was trying to say. But all I got was "lol" and "" replies.

 

[lgorTudor]

lol

 

[Bianconero_Aus]

lol

Zip it, Hans.

 

[Bianconero_Aus]

GRÜBER!!!

 

[Zacheryah]

exactly what I was trying to say. But all I got was "lol" and "" replies.

I'm taking lessons here, on how you write a simular opinion to mine, but without the infractions and a quarter of the trolling

Thing is, "clearly stronger" is a big statement considering how good Tevez was

 

[pavluska]

exactly what I was trying to say. But all I got was "lol" and "" replies.

That's how they do you, mang.

I'm taking lessons here, on how you write a simular opinion to mine, but without the infractions and a quarter of the trolling

Thing is, "clearly stronger" is a big statement considering how good Tevez was

"Clearly stronger" means it's clear that it's stronger. Not to be confused with "much stronger."

And to reiterate, even though the current squad is stronger, losing the chemistry and some of the leadership the team had and having to gel with 10 new players mean, overall, there isn't much difference between the current team and the team from last season.

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Marotta, Paratici, and Nedved did well this past summer IMO.

I only have reservations with Vidal being sold for a mere 40m and Zaza being bought for 18.

Tevez, Vidal, and Coman wanted to leave. There wasn't much we could do about their departures.

They tried signing an AM of decent or better quality, but if they aren't available in the market and if the players themselves don't want to join us, can't really fault them for not signing one.

Someone mentioned they're fine with the squad that was built but have issues with the planning of transfers. I guess they're referring to Lemina and Hernanes being bought on deadline day (which is why we had to field Padoin). But again, we were able to sign Lemina on loan with option because we waited till deadline day. According to his agent, he gave his word that the player would only join Juve. Marseille had no option but to agree to our terms ultimately. I'm sure they preferred to sell the player outright. Hernanes was bought on deadline day after we exhausted other options and tried to buy others like Hamsik (btw, spending 25m on him would've been the wrong move IMO). The deal was linked with Inter signing Ljajic from Roma. Inter even made a u-turn on this triangular deal momentarily on deadline day. We couldn't have signed Hernanes earlier either.

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Selling Vidal for only 38m + 2m in bonuses and buying Zaza for 18m were far from good deals. But it's unrealistic to expect a club's directors to get 100% of the deals right. If they're getting 80% of them right, they're doing a great job.

 

[Zacheryah]

Oh i fully support the management.


But we are not "clearly better", because of how good tevez was. Not yet.

 

[pavluska]

Oh i fully support the management.


But we are not "clearly better", because of how good tevez was. Not yet.

Of course not yet. The team has to gel, lol. We're talking about over the course of the season. And for the third time, I'm saying the team is better on paper, but considering the lost chemistry and leadership along with the learning curve the requisite time the team needs to gel, the team overall is on the same level as last year's team. It might be slightly better or worse, the difference isn't much.

 

[Hist]

Of course not yet. The team has to gel, lol. We're talking about over the course of the season. And for the third time, I'm saying the team is better on paper, but considering the lost chemistry and leadership along with the learning curve the requisite time the team needs to gel, the team overall is on the same level as last year's team. It might be slightly better or worse, the difference isn't much.

Explain. Tevez is thrice the player Dybala is. Morata was here last season. Thats your attack. A massive downgrade.
A midfield that had Vidal and Pirlo now has Khedira, Hernanes and Lemina. Thats your midfield. A massive downgrade.
The defense is the same.
The goalie is the same.

We have better depth than before in terms of ball winners in CM and less depth in terms of registas.
We have better depth for the morata position and in CB and LB.

So in short we have better subs than last season (except the regista position) and a weaker starting 11. On paper the old team is better and in terms of performance, the only way the current team can be said to be better is if we win the treble.

 

[pavluska]

Explain.

.....

On paper, this squad is clearly stronger. Defense and GK positions are better with the Alex Sandro, Rugani, and Neto signings. Midfield is better with Marchisio in the center and Khedira as a starter instead of Pirlo, who was finished. Depth in midfield is also better (Asamoah, Lemina, Pereyra, Hernanes, Sturaro vs. Pereyra, Sturaro, Padoin). We only had two good attacking players last year in Tevez and Morata. We lost our best player, Tevez, but we have three good attackers this season in Cuadrado, Morata, and Dybala, and Mandzukic is also a much better backup than Llorente.

the only way the current team can be said to be better is if we win the treble.

Yes, if we have the same luck with CL draws again.

 

[s4tch]

Midfield is better with Marchisio in the center and Khedira as a starter instead of Pirlo, who was finished.

you replaced pirlo with marchisio and also with khedira? (when marchisio started last year, pirlo was benched/injured.) and you forgot that chilean guy who were nowhere near finished.

the squad may be stronger overall if you take the fifa approach, but the starting lineup lost vidal and tevez, and that's a huge issue. you can't replace 2 wc players with depth alone.

also, i have reservations about our depth, too. now we only have marchisio who can properly play a regista: neither khedira nor lemina are as good passers as marchi, and hernanes couldn't handle the pressure against napoli, so he's not a proper regista either. when you start with padoin against roma in the heart of the midfield, it's rather right to question the depth of the squad. last year we had pirlo and marchisio for that role. and while i also said that marchisio is a better option than pirlo as a starter, it's clear to see that pirlo could have been a rather good backup for marchi this season.

what we really have compared to last year is tactical options that cuadrado brought. now we have at least one wing to expoit.

 

[pavluska]

you replaced pirlo with marchisio and also with khedira? (when marchisio started last year, pirlo was benched/injured.) and you forgot that chilean guy who were nowhere near finished.

It was a Marchisio-Pirlo-Pogba central midfield with Vidal as the AM in front of them for the most part.

Marchisio replaced Pirlo as the regista. Khedira replaced Marchisio as the RCM. I'm surprised that was difficult to understand.

Cuadrado replaced Vidal. Cuadrado offers more in attack. Vidal offered more defensively (when he finally started playing well in the last third of the season).

also, i have reservations about our depth, too. now we only have marchisio who can properly play a regista: neither khedira nor lemina are as good passers as marchi, and hernanes couldn't handle the pressure against napoli, so he's not a proper regista either. when you start with padoin against roma in the heart of the midfield, it's rather right to question the depth of the squad. last year we had pirlo and marchisio for that role. and while i also said that marchisio is a better option than pirlo as a starter, it's clear to see that pirlo could have been a rather good backup for marchi this season.

Lemina is a very good option as backup regista. Padoin was the third alternative for regista last season, Hernanes is much better.

Lemina isn't a bad passer at all. He's actually very good at short passes. He lacks the range. Marchisio doesn't exactly have Pirlo's range either. Passing isn't the only attribute midfielders have. If you didn't notice how well an 80% fit Khedira played in the last two games, I'm sure you'll realize later on that he's much better compared to the finished Pirlo in our midfield last season. And I prefer Lemina over Pirlo. He's clearly a better player than the current Pirlo.

Padoin started when Khedira, Asamoah, and Marchisio were injured and Lemina and Hernanes hadn't signed yet.

 

[Hist]

.....





Yes, if we have the same luck with CL draws again.

Marchisio was here last season rotating with Pirlo in the regista position. No team reaches the CL final with a finished player at the heart of its midfield. Pirlo was not at his best yes but he is still a far better regista than any player in Serie A. Even those who wanted marchisio to play regista more wanted marchisio to start for his superior defensive skills and not for his superior distribution skills. No one in their right mind can question Pirlo.


And again most of those you list are bench players. The attack is weakened because we play with 2 players upfront. We downgraded from Tevez to Dybala.

The midfield lost Vidal and Pirlo. Marchisio was already here. Whichever 3 you pick (Pogba - Pirlo - Vidal), (Pogba - Marchisio - Vidal), (Pogba - Pirlo - Marchisio), the current midfield is weaker. Even in terms of depth we now have no substitute for marchisio in the regista role.

We improved the bench but forgot to bring in a replacement for Pirlo and weakened the attack.

Marotta failed to prioritize. the two key cogs in our midfield and attack are the regista and the SS. He did not get a regista and got in an SS that will need years before he reaches Tevez's level (if ever). Not getting a regista already cost us a lot this season in Serie A. Marchisio got injured and we started playing a midfield of ball winners that couldn't distribute to save their lives. No wonder Allegri had to pull Pogba back next to Hernanes to help distribute.

This dirstibutor-less midfield is yet to get a serious challenge. I hope Marchisio comes back and in form before we face one.

 

[s4tch]

It was a Marchisio-Pirlo-Pogba central midfield with Vidal as the AM in front of them for the most part.

as we play this strange 4-3-3/3-5-2 midfield (3 central midfielders in the starting lineup, compared to last year's 4), i think it would be more convenient to compare our 3-5-2 from last year with that.

anyway, we lost tevez, vidal and pirlo from last year's best 11 in either formations. now we have dybala, khedira and cuadrado instead of them. dybala is a bright talent, i rate him highly and i'm convinced that he'll have some 20+ goals seasons in the coming years, but at the moment he's nowhere near as good as tevez was last year. and that basically sums up our season so far. we should be a lot more clinical in front of goal this year, and that's where tevez's absence shows. we also conceded a lot more this year, and besides the lack of proper replacement options (depth, there you go...), that's down to the injuries and bad luck (we concede from 1st shots on our goal, that's ridiculous). still i expect our defense to be just as solid as it was last year when we get our starting 11 back.

an other word on the depth of the squad: when we played 3-5-2, we had 4 classy midfielders for 3 spots. now we've got an out-of-form pogba, marchisio getting injured regularly, and khedira, who started with an injury for the starting lineup. so the starters seem to be not as reliable as they were in the last couple of seasons, and they don't have the classy backup as they did. that's my main concern with this year's squad, besides the obvious lack of a tevez kind of forward who will bring the goals even when the team plays terrible.

 

[Zacheryah]

Vidal only hit a form in wich he was superior to pereyra, very late last season.


But Tevez ?