Suns

Release clause?
May 22, 2009
22,086
Tevez > Dybala
Matri < Zaza
Llorente < Mandzu
Vidal > Khedira
Pirlo >
Ogbonna < Rugani

Our bench got better, our starters got worse.
 

Bianconero81

Ageing Veteran
Jan 26, 2009
40,177
Give it 2 years and Dybala will be 100 times the player Tevez was at his peak.
After which, we shall proceed to sell him to Barca for 60 or 70 million (and get no one notable as a replacement) because he is a disloyal South American. Nothing and no one breathes loyalty like an Italian I tell ya :D

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We can make an assessment after the supercoppa, and after the mercato is closed. Not now.
If we get a class AM (Gotze) and a reliable quality LB, then the whole dynamic changes. However, that is a big IF!

Buffon being protected by the same back 4 with the additions of Rugani, a quality LB acquisition, and the return of Caceres to form, is an improvement. A midfield rotation containing the likes of Marchisio, Pogba, Asamoah, Khedira, Sturaro, and to a lesser extent Pereyra and Padoin is packed (perhaps not as much a guarantee as past seasons, but potentially more explosive and dynamic). The attack, with the addition of an AM to rotate with Pereyra might potentially allow us to play different formations (A 4-3-3 with Coman and Dybala flanking Morata is pretty exciting) and has the quality to exceed the accomplishments of past seasons (although I don't rate Zaza, and I don't particularly like Mandzukic).
 

Zacheryah

Senior Member
Aug 29, 2010
42,251
We are talking about LB's like Evra has left us ? He's still here, and so is Asamoah.

We shouldnt buy a LB this season, but the next one, and acces the situation. Can Asamoah make the transition from LWB to LB ? Is Evra declining ?


But i do think we need a trequartista. I'd be fine with a high potential non established one, if we choose a transition year. But i really want us to sign a treq
 

CrimsonianKing

Count Mbangula
Jan 16, 2013
27,326
After which, we shall proceed to sell him to Barca for 60 or 70 million (and get no one notable as a replacement) because he is a disloyal South American. Nothing and no one breathes loyalty like an Italian I tell ya :D
Unfortunately that will probably happen. Barça would do everything to have another incredible Argentine in 2,3 years when Messi reaches his 30's and starts to decline.

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After which, we shall proceed to sell him to Barca for 60 or 70 million (and get no one notable as a replacement) because he is a disloyal South American. Nothing and no one breathes loyalty like an Italian I tell ya :D
Unfortunately that will probably happen. Barça would do everything to have another incredible Argentine in 2,3 years when Messi reaches his 30's and starts to decline.
 

Hist

Founder of Hism
Jan 18, 2009
11,619
You guys know we can't go on winning Scudetti forever right? Every cycle comes to an end, and maybe we're at the end...

My question is, would you blame Marotta and co. if we don't retain the title this season?
Definitely. We are competing with a bunch of retards. Apart from Roma, everyone else is in transition even more than we are.

Inter:
1) Added a bucket of new players 7 of which will be starters. We added 5 players 2-3 of which will be starters.
2) Inter was an already dysfunctional team. We were 4 time scudetto winners and CL finalists.
3) Inter has a very young starting 11. We have a young starting 11 but older than Inter's.
4) Inter has a good squad on paper. We have a better squad on paper despite their additions.
5) Their coach is Mancini not Mourinho. Not a miracle worker in any sense. He is a guy that barely meets the minimum objectives.
The only advantage they have is no CL football. They are disadvantaged in every other way. If they beat us to the title that would be a great failure on our part.

Milan is so poor if they beat us to the title all management ought to be sacked.

Roma:
1) The gap between us and them was so huge, they crash out after a humiliation in the CL, we reach the final. Also huge point difference in Serie A.
2) They have a loser mentality in their DNA. We have a winning mentality.
3) On paper we still have a better squad by a distance. They barely made any signings. CL football kills their squad physically and mentally.

Their only advantage is not having to gel many players the way we do. Again the gap was too big to be reduced in one season.

The minimum objective should be scudetto and CL QF. No problem if we decrease in quality but its a big failure if we decrease our level enough that the likes of Inter and Roma can be our equals.
 

Hist

Founder of Hism
Jan 18, 2009
11,619
So far, Milan did the best of our opponents
best at what? signings?

Hell no. They are still lacking many purchases to be on Inter's level (on paper that is).

They need a new defense and midfield. Their current starters are bench material (Poli, Motolivo, Bonaventura, Honda).

In defense maybe De sciglio and Alex can be bench options. The others can only be deep bench.
 

Zacheryah

Senior Member
Aug 29, 2010
42,251
Ah signings, is this manchester city ? Bunch of individuals that cant act as a unit wether their live depends on it ?


No. I'm not talking about their signings. I'm talking about how they performed. They played preseason games against Lyon, Real Madrid and Inter. Despite it beeing preseason friendlies, they looked surprisingly organised. It really stood out, as these games are done with a minimal tactical approach.

Why does this matter ?

italian teams typically rely on their tactical approach, a central part of the game, and the performance of its more defensive players to combat a more free opponent. In preseason, one never expects alot since you hold back on tackles and barely use tactics. What happens on the pitch is alot of base guidelines, fitness prep, and natural behaviour.

Lyon was far further in their season prep. Madrid is a freeflow team wich usually does quite well in preseason, cause allmost no team can match their creativity when not putting up a strong play. Inter was a nice comparison as they were at the same part.

In all 3 games, milan was notably well organised, and created some aswel.


Offcourse, when we play actually games that matter, its a different thing, but its an encouraging sign for them.



Oh and remember Bacca. He is a very very good striker.
 

Hist

Founder of Hism
Jan 18, 2009
11,619
Ah signings, is this manchester city ? Bunch of individuals that cant act as a unit wether their live depends on it ?


No. I'm not talking about their signings. I'm talking about how they performed. They played preseason games against Lyon, Real Madrid and Inter. Despite it beeing preseason friendlies, they looked surprisingly organised. It really stood out, as these games are done with a minimal tactical approach.

Why does this matter ?

italian teams typically rely on their tactical approach, a central part of the game, and the performance of its more defensive players to combat a more free opponent. In preseason, one never expects alot since you hold back on tackles and barely use tactics. What happens on the pitch is alot of base guidelines, fitness prep, and natural behaviour.

Lyon was far further in their season prep. Madrid is a freeflow team wich usually does quite well in preseason, cause allmost no team can match their creativity when not putting up a strong play. Inter was a nice comparison as they were at the same part.

In all 3 games, milan was notably well organised, and created some aswel.


Offcourse, when we play actually games that matter, its a different thing, but its an encouraging sign for them.



Oh and remember Bacca. He is a very very good striker.
You might be reading too much into their pre-season. Everyone they are playing are relaxed as well.

I honestly dont think much about Sinsia. Mancini is probably the better coach. On paper though, Inter is on a different level. Bacca is a good striker but so is Icardi and Jovetic (without injuries) even if Bacca is more established. Everywhere else, Inter is levels better than what Milan has.

The good thing is that when big teams under perform they collapse mentally completely and the pressure becomes insane. I remember Juve under Ferrara and DN. We had much better squads than everyone but one or two teams, but underperforming put is in free fall. Similarly, Inter and Milan for the last few seasons and United before LVG.

If those two dont hit the ground running, the weight of the shirt will pull them down below teams which much worse squads.
 

duranfj

Senior Member
Jul 30, 2015
8,799
We are talking about LB's like Evra has left us ? He's still here, and so is Asamoah.

We shouldnt buy a LB this season, but the next one, and acces the situation. Can Asamoah make the transition from LWB to LB ? Is Evra declining ?


But i do think we need a trequartista. I'd be fine with a high potential non established one, if we choose a transition year. But i really want us to sign a treq
:tup: :xfinger:
 

JuveJay

Senior Signor
Moderator
Mar 6, 2007
74,956
:lol2:

Yeah, if only Marotta was more charismatic Juve would be able to pay huge transfer fees and wages.
I was going to say, replace "charisma" with "money".

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Thing is, especially this season, a lot of the names kinda came from the club. Allegri in particular mentioned Oscar and the classic 10 etc. The media see an influx of cash from CL, Adidas, and then a shocking Vidal sale and put two and two together.

Marrotta is having a shocker at the moment. I grant him that he doesn't have to buy Oscar/Isco, but 'they're not stellar players" and "we will NEVER sign them" makes him look like someone whose ambitions/skill set are limited as far as European success goes. He just spent 18m on Zaza and he comes out and says daft shit like that. At times he seems more like he's justifying his movement on the mercato than actually talking about our approach.

Granted, we may not be in the league of a 50m rated player, or a 'world class player' but after spending 32m plus 8m on Dybala, you would think there is more of where that came from, more so after the Vidal sale to make a move that signifies intent, not opportunity. Goetze/Draxler to me are still on the cards. Anything less/different, and I would say that we've been let down by management, not the circumstances.
I feel like we have this conversation every summer. Journalists sit there and ask our staff about all these players, you must have sat and listened to press conferences where they name drop all the time? The most recent one was exactly the same. Whenever Marotta steps outside some guys screams "Götze, Draxler, Alex Sandro?!?!?!" in his face, when he comes out of the toilet cubicle there is a guy stood there with a paper towel asking "Oscar, Isco, Benatia?". That's the same for all sporting directors.

Marotta knows there is a fine line between diplomacy and being cold but at some point after their clubs have made it obvious that the likes of Oscar, Isco, Götze and the rest are wanted and not for sale people have to take on board the reality of the situation. If they keep asking then be prepared to be shut down. I wasn't exaggerating when I said "pipe dreams being shattered", that's exactly what they are, and people keep that hope up until the last day of the window. It's sad. The reality of the situation is that we have already spend big chunks of money and are not a United or PSG or whoever who will just fire €50m away because we can. Why should there be "more of where that came from"? This isn't a bottomless pit. Just because I can afford to buy a car doesn't mean I can then afford to buy two cars. There is clearly going to be some money available from the Vidal sale, as our recent offers show, but selling to buy doesn't show financial strength.

Allegri is a fine diplomat. You ask him about players and he will give you an answer on their talents and suitability for his team, but it's not his job to sign them or manage the club's accounts. Just look how he replied to the Vidal sale. He is the good cop in the relationship. He knows what he is working with here but doesn't have to give the hard truth, that is the job of Marotta and Agnelli, so people get frustrated with those guys instead.

So I'll sit here and hope for a pleasant surprise, but I never feel let down by this management. I'm not so short-sighted as to just rate their work based on attractive summer signings, like some specky work experience GdS journalist.
 

Osman

Koul Khara!
Aug 30, 2002
61,501
you would have died of laughter reading this posting 3 months ago
Exactly. What would undoubtedly be seen as weaker a while ago, is now suddenly an improvement. Just because it's our reality now, it must be an improvement according to him.

It's not over yet, but right now, anyone who honestly thinks are starting eleven isn't weaker is fooling themselves big time.
 

Suns

Release clause?
May 22, 2009
22,086
Allegri: "We can't think of signing players who reduce the quality of the squad. Dybala cannot play behind the strikers, he's young."

One day after Beppe says Dybala can play treq. I'm sensing that Allegri and Beppe are not on the same page regarding this whole thing.
 

Bianconero_Aus

Beppe Marotta Is My God
May 26, 2009
81,097
Exactly. What would undoubtedly be seen as weaker dairy while ago, is now suddenly an improvement. Just because it's our reality now, it must be an improvement according to him.

It's not over yet, but right now, anyone who honestly thinks are starting eleven isn't weaker is fooling themselves big time.
Do you honestly think we would have achieved the same results with the exact same team this season? I have my doubts that we would have. We are making some tough decisions and hard choices that the fans are simply going to make it so much better for us long term.
 

Osman

Koul Khara!
Aug 30, 2002
61,501
Do you honestly think we would have achieved the same results with the exact same team this season? I have my doubts that we would have. We are making some tough decisions and hard choices that the fans are simply going to make it so much better for us long term.
I don't mind making the team younger, in fact the opposite. But making it weaker with selling Vidal and not yet getting a well needed AM to offset the creative dependency we had on Tevez and Pirlo to take charge of plays, is defenitely major concerns we need to address.

As is the fact our 2nd LB and starting RCM are both injury plagued as fuck right now.


There is defenitely reasons to worry, while weirdly enough its been heralded as improvement in some posts.
 

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