Giuseppe Marotta (135 Viewers)
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There were quite a number of members of this forum, including those now labelling our mercato crap, who were all up in arms that we didn't go for Mandzukic last summer, and saying how Atletico got him for a super great deal at 22 mil, and we got super ripped off buying Morata for basically the same price...
How their stories have changed now...
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Well, I guess I went a little over the top then. I certainly agree with everything you say here. I rate Mandzukic as just outside the top 10. In the same place with guys like Higuain. Somewhere between 10-15... I feel, as far as forwards go, there' 4-5 a cut above the rest in Messi, Ronaldo, Suarez, Neymar, Zlatan... Then you have another group of 5 with Cavani, Benzema, Costa, Aguero, Tevez. And then perhaps a group of 8-12 behind them... a guy like Mandzukic because of his consistency in scoring and toughness and hardwork... A guy like Higuain because his pure nose for goal. I'd put guys like Van Persie and Falcao in the lower half of this group, because of poor recent seasons, age, and the uncertainty about their futures. Young forwards who are starting to realize potential would go in there too in the lower half. In that group of 8-12 would be Muller, Mandzukic, Higuain, Lacazette, Morata, Falcao, Bacca, Dzeko, Van Persie, Martinez, Benteke, Kane, Lukaku... This would probably be about the order I'd rate them in as of now too.
I just consider at least those first three in Muller, Mandzukic, Higuain top players, even if they aren't quite in that top 10 group.
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I'm worried about the same thing with Mandzukic, after seeing how quickly Llorente's form went down the toilet. However, I do think Mandzukic offers much much more than Llorente in general play if he's not scoring. So there's that. At the very least he's going to work his ass off, even if his scoring boots go missing at times. Hopefully they don't.
And thank you.
I think a few of us understand how exciting it is to see this rejuvenated and much more youthful Juventus being built as the cycle ends for our 4 straight scudetti winning core. We were an ancient team the last two years, our average age was crazy high. I'm glad our management saw this and started last summer with Morata, Pereyra, COman, and now continued that this summer with Rugani, Dybala, Zaza, and hopefully they get their CAM. Berardi next year too. We may see some growing pains, but this squad looks like it has a very promising future. Our little "optimistic" group goes a little overboard with enthusiasm for Beppe and our new signings at times, but that's just the nature of being excited about new players coming into our team. I really hope I never turn into a super pessimistic, grumpy fan of Juve who literally complains about everything Juventus does. It wouldn't even be fun being a fan anymore.
I'm sorry if I directed any of my post-CL final meltdown your way. I was pretty damn disappointed in those first couple days after. Exhausted from work, and so ridiculously disappointed.
How their stories have changed now...
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Well, I guess I went a little over the top then. I certainly agree with everything you say here. I rate Mandzukic as just outside the top 10. In the same place with guys like Higuain. Somewhere between 10-15... I feel, as far as forwards go, there' 4-5 a cut above the rest in Messi, Ronaldo, Suarez, Neymar, Zlatan... Then you have another group of 5 with Cavani, Benzema, Costa, Aguero, Tevez. And then perhaps a group of 8-12 behind them... a guy like Mandzukic because of his consistency in scoring and toughness and hardwork... A guy like Higuain because his pure nose for goal. I'd put guys like Van Persie and Falcao in the lower half of this group, because of poor recent seasons, age, and the uncertainty about their futures. Young forwards who are starting to realize potential would go in there too in the lower half. In that group of 8-12 would be Muller, Mandzukic, Higuain, Lacazette, Morata, Falcao, Bacca, Dzeko, Van Persie, Martinez, Benteke, Kane, Lukaku... This would probably be about the order I'd rate them in as of now too.
I just consider at least those first three in Muller, Mandzukic, Higuain top players, even if they aren't quite in that top 10 group.
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Let's hope we don't catch him at the bad end of his bell curve
Great posts today by the way. Pretty much what I'm thinking you just say it better
Great posts today by the way. Pretty much what I'm thinking you just say it better
And thank you.
I think a few of us understand how exciting it is to see this rejuvenated and much more youthful Juventus being built as the cycle ends for our 4 straight scudetti winning core. We were an ancient team the last two years, our average age was crazy high. I'm glad our management saw this and started last summer with Morata, Pereyra, COman, and now continued that this summer with Rugani, Dybala, Zaza, and hopefully they get their CAM. Berardi next year too. We may see some growing pains, but this squad looks like it has a very promising future. Our little "optimistic" group goes a little overboard with enthusiasm for Beppe and our new signings at times, but that's just the nature of being excited about new players coming into our team. I really hope I never turn into a super pessimistic, grumpy fan of Juve who literally complains about everything Juventus does. It wouldn't even be fun being a fan anymore. I'm sorry if I directed any of my post-CL final meltdown your way. I was pretty damn disappointed in those first couple days after. Exhausted from work, and so ridiculously disappointed.
Fullbacks will be a serious problem for us this coming season, probably not in Serie A were the pace is slow but rather in Europe.
Unless we sign quality fullbacks we will regret it IMO.
Ps: please don't mention asamoah as a great fullback because the guy was very average in that position (in fact he was "horrible" when he played that role with Ghana in the World Cup)
Unless we sign quality fullbacks we will regret it IMO.
Ps: please don't mention asamoah as a great fullback because the guy was very average in that position (in fact he was "horrible" when he played that role with Ghana in the World Cup)
Vidal was a disaster in the first half of the season and thats when Allegri really didn't have a vision and everything sorta came together once the formation changed. Vidal was pushed to AM because our current CM's were able to hold the fort down and shore up any loose ends. Now, whether anyone cares to acknowledge that or not I guess isn't the point. Vidal really gained steam at the end of the season, sure, I won't doubt that but before he started getting his feet back we were really doing well without him.
The Vidal of last season, the one that played at AM, will not be missed at all if we get a genuine CM. Now, the Vidal from last season prior to his knee injury is a different animal altogether. That's the Vidal I will miss.
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The Vidal of last season, the one that played at AM, will not be missed at all if we get a genuine CM. Now, the Vidal from last season prior to his knee injury is a different animal altogether. That's the Vidal I will miss.
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I'm worried about the same thing with Mandzukic, after seeing how quickly Llorente's form went down the toilet. However, I do think Mandzukic offers much much more than Llorente in general play if he's not scoring. So there's that. At the very least he's going to work his ass off, even if his scoring boots go missing at times. Hopefully they don't.
And thank you. I think a few of us understand how exciting it is to see this rejuvenated and much more youthful Juventus being built as the cycle ends for our 4 straight scudetti winning core. We were an ancient team the last two years, our average age was crazy high. I'm glad our management saw this and started last summer with Morata, Pereyra, COman, and now continued that this summer with Rugani, Dybala, Zaza, and hopefully they get their CAM. Berardi next year too. We may see some growing pains, but this squad looks like it has a very promising future. Our little "optimistic" group goes a little overboard with enthusiasm for Beppe and our new signings at times, but that's just the nature of being excited about new players coming into our team. I really hope I never turn into a super pessimistic, grumpy fan of Juve who literally complains about everything Juventus does. It wouldn't even be fun being a fan anymore.
I'm sorry if I directed any of my post-CL final meltdown your way. I was pretty damn disappointed in those first couple days after. Exhausted from work, and so ridiculously disappointed.
And thank you.
I think a few of us understand how exciting it is to see this rejuvenated and much more youthful Juventus being built as the cycle ends for our 4 straight scudetti winning core. We were an ancient team the last two years, our average age was crazy high. I'm glad our management saw this and started last summer with Morata, Pereyra, COman, and now continued that this summer with Rugani, Dybala, Zaza, and hopefully they get their CAM. Berardi next year too. We may see some growing pains, but this squad looks like it has a very promising future. Our little "optimistic" group goes a little overboard with enthusiasm for Beppe and our new signings at times, but that's just the nature of being excited about new players coming into our team. I really hope I never turn into a super pessimistic, grumpy fan of Juve who literally complains about everything Juventus does. It wouldn't even be fun being a fan anymore. I'm sorry if I directed any of my post-CL final meltdown your way. I was pretty damn disappointed in those first couple days after. Exhausted from work, and so ridiculously disappointed.
Fuck it.
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I agree on all u said about vidal, but in the parahraph u qoted me, I was talking about tevez
It's not so much about the final third specifically, as imuch as it is a position we are looking to fill, with a budget to boot. The way we spend that money should be in the best possible manner on the kind of player that adds to the mix of youth that now abounds the team. It's just incidental this need gap happens to be a CAM, it could've been any other position on the field, but that is something we definitely need to look out for coz we've lost a lot of attrition, personality and influence with the departures of the holy trinity.
And like I said earlier, Allegri is more a tactician than a man manager, which means you are going to need a core of go to guys on the field to imbibe and instill the mentality we are known for week in and week out. And that normally happens to be with players who have big game temperament, experience and have seen and know how to deal with pressure at a big club. So outside of the core we have left of perhaps, Buffon, Marchisio, Chiellini/Bonnucci, we probably need one more intelligent head to keep the think tank and unit psychologically secure IMO. Luckily, a top/quality AM would easily have that effect.
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Unfortunately, Mandzukic, outside of the leader discussion, unlike a Tevez for example is unlikely to have that kind of influence on our game on the pitch. Perhaps comes with the nature and responsibility of a CF vis a vis that of an SS, whose innate ability to roam and control the ball is far greater than the CF type of player whose skill set is limited to being to a fox in the box variant. He will definitely add to our pressing game but I don't see him carry the team the way a Tevez or influential CAM can.
Also, you're judging Draxler and Goetze for their age (even though I rate them differently), and calling them children. A leader or influential player in their position is not limited by their age bracket. Take both players for example. Draxler has substantial CL experience, Goetze scored the WC winner for Germany apart from work day in and day out at one of the top 3 big clubs in the world. A lot of maturity comes with that, which isn't limited to age. Pogba for example has matured fast enough and is perhaps on the verge of being a leader in the team if he is able to keep his head on his shoulders, despite his age.
I don't think I have an issue with the balance and mix of the team at all. On the whole we are definitely better from the depth aspect of things, but weaker from a starting perspective because you've got a Morata whose role is going to overlap with 'top' player Mandzukic thereby nullifying one of them. Dybala is still a work in progress and I am particularly excited to see how he fares, although that is where our risk taking for the season should end, and avoid a Draxler level signing. At any point in the last four years I would've been excited about the potential a signing like this would bring, but this year, when you need someone to hit the ground running, I'd go with a little more than a prospect with a high risk/high reward undercurrent.
And like I said earlier, Allegri is more a tactician than a man manager, which means you are going to need a core of go to guys on the field to imbibe and instill the mentality we are known for week in and week out. And that normally happens to be with players who have big game temperament, experience and have seen and know how to deal with pressure at a big club. So outside of the core we have left of perhaps, Buffon, Marchisio, Chiellini/Bonnucci, we probably need one more intelligent head to keep the think tank and unit psychologically secure IMO. Luckily, a top/quality AM would easily have that effect.
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Unfortunately, Mandzukic, outside of the leader discussion, unlike a Tevez for example is unlikely to have that kind of influence on our game on the pitch. Perhaps comes with the nature and responsibility of a CF vis a vis that of an SS, whose innate ability to roam and control the ball is far greater than the CF type of player whose skill set is limited to being to a fox in the box variant. He will definitely add to our pressing game but I don't see him carry the team the way a Tevez or influential CAM can.
Also, you're judging Draxler and Goetze for their age (even though I rate them differently), and calling them children. A leader or influential player in their position is not limited by their age bracket. Take both players for example. Draxler has substantial CL experience, Goetze scored the WC winner for Germany apart from work day in and day out at one of the top 3 big clubs in the world. A lot of maturity comes with that, which isn't limited to age. Pogba for example has matured fast enough and is perhaps on the verge of being a leader in the team if he is able to keep his head on his shoulders, despite his age.
I don't think I have an issue with the balance and mix of the team at all. On the whole we are definitely better from the depth aspect of things, but weaker from a starting perspective because you've got a Morata whose role is going to overlap with 'top' player Mandzukic thereby nullifying one of them. Dybala is still a work in progress and I am particularly excited to see how he fares, although that is where our risk taking for the season should end, and avoid a Draxler level signing. At any point in the last four years I would've been excited about the potential a signing like this would bring, but this year, when you need someone to hit the ground running, I'd go with a little more than a prospect with a high risk/high reward undercurrent.
This team on paper looks a lot weaker, I have to admit. Clearly the whole one step back and hopefully we get 3 steps forward in a few years is what the leadership has been aiming at. Its probably a good way to go if we want to contend with the best because of our financial limitations.
Because honestly, looking at the team on paper and I'm not as confident as I was for example last year. We went from having the best midfield in the world to a good one. The fact that Marchisio goes from reserve in the midfield to the most important player in our midfield together with Pogba kinda illustrates that.
Also there is no offense to speak of. The Draxler/Götze signing has to happen. Offense was never the blueprint for our success because we got by through having the best midfield in the world and Tevez individual brilliance but those things are not there anymore.
Then there is also the whole rejuvunation that we've done. Obviously we've signed a lot of young players and lost some very experienced players which is something that will defintely be felt. And a byproduct of youth is for obvious reasons is inexperience. So I'm expecting some frustrating mental breakdowns this season.
I expect us to get the league but it won't be as easy as its been the last few seasons. Regarding the Champions League the goal is just to advance into the playoffs.
Hopefully in a year we have a much better base to stand on with our new, younger team and something to build upon. And if that gets us a scudetto in the process then that wouldn't be too shabby
Because honestly, looking at the team on paper and I'm not as confident as I was for example last year. We went from having the best midfield in the world to a good one. The fact that Marchisio goes from reserve in the midfield to the most important player in our midfield together with Pogba kinda illustrates that.
Also there is no offense to speak of. The Draxler/Götze signing has to happen. Offense was never the blueprint for our success because we got by through having the best midfield in the world and Tevez individual brilliance but those things are not there anymore.
Then there is also the whole rejuvunation that we've done. Obviously we've signed a lot of young players and lost some very experienced players which is something that will defintely be felt. And a byproduct of youth is for obvious reasons is inexperience. So I'm expecting some frustrating mental breakdowns this season.
I expect us to get the league but it won't be as easy as its been the last few seasons. Regarding the Champions League the goal is just to advance into the playoffs.
Hopefully in a year we have a much better base to stand on with our new, younger team and something to build upon. And if that gets us a scudetto in the process then that wouldn't be too shabby
This team on paper looks a lot weaker, I have to admit. Clearly the whole one step back and hopefully we get 3 steps forward in a few years is what the leadership has been aiming at. Its probably a good way to go if we want to contend with the best because of our financial limitations.
Because honestly, looking at the team on paper and I'm not as confident as I was for example last year. We went from having the best midfield in the world to a good one. The fact that Marchisio goes from reserve in the midfield to the most important player in our midfield together with Pogba kinda illustrates that.
Also there is no offense to speak of. The Draxler/Götze signing has to happen. Offense was never the blueprint for our success because we got by through having the best midfield in the world and Tevez individual brilliance but those things are not there anymore.
Then there is also the whole rejuvunation that we've done. Obviously we've signed a lot of young players and lost some very experienced players which is something that will defintely be felt. And a byproduct of youth is for obvious reasons is inexperience. So I'm expecting some frustrating mental breakdowns this season.
I expect us to get the league but it won't be as easy as its been the last few seasons. Regarding the Champions League the goal is just to advance into the playoffs.
Hopefully in a year we have a much better base to stand on with our new, younger team and something to build upon. And if that gets us a scudetto in the process then that wouldn't be too shabby
Because honestly, looking at the team on paper and I'm not as confident as I was for example last year. We went from having the best midfield in the world to a good one. The fact that Marchisio goes from reserve in the midfield to the most important player in our midfield together with Pogba kinda illustrates that.
Also there is no offense to speak of. The Draxler/Götze signing has to happen. Offense was never the blueprint for our success because we got by through having the best midfield in the world and Tevez individual brilliance but those things are not there anymore.
Then there is also the whole rejuvunation that we've done. Obviously we've signed a lot of young players and lost some very experienced players which is something that will defintely be felt. And a byproduct of youth is for obvious reasons is inexperience. So I'm expecting some frustrating mental breakdowns this season.
I expect us to get the league but it won't be as easy as its been the last few seasons. Regarding the Champions League the goal is just to advance into the playoffs.
Hopefully in a year we have a much better base to stand on with our new, younger team and something to build upon. And if that gets us a scudetto in the process then that wouldn't be too shabby