KB824

Senior Member
Sep 16, 2003
31,789
Del Neri and Marotta are not the right people to take Juventus back to where it belongs :yuck: :inter:
Del Neri- I agree. Not the right person for this job.

Marotta- I can be more patient with.


Its one thing to have a revolving dorr of coaches, but to push marotta aside after less than 1 year would be madness, in my opinion. More money would have to be spent with a new director who will have a new vision.

I'm sorry, but the only move that I can fault him for was the handling of the Trez situation, and even with that, we do not know the whole story behind it.

Motta was a waste of space, but at a minimal cost at this point. Pepe has had his moments, but whether it is enough to want them to shell out the remaining 7.5 million to buy him outright remains to be seen. I would say no. Aquilani was a low risk, high reward move that hasn't panned out. He didn't spend a dime on him, and if I were him, if he can't get his rights for 40% of the agreed fee, then he shouldn't even bother. No issues at all in my opinion with Storari, Bonnuci, Krasic, Quagliarella, Sorensen, and Matri.

I'm still holding out afaint glimmer of hope that Martinez will be the martinez of last year with Cagliari, but iether he is in Del Neri's doghouse, or he is still hurt.

I don't think the problem lies solely with Marotta. On paper, this team is a better team than last year's squad. The problem is with the coach.
 

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baggio

Senior Member
Jun 3, 2003
19,250
I feel Marotta does deserve a fair share of the blame here and now. To start with, his vision has been questionable. To start off a season, aiming for fourth place is utterly and completely unacceptable. You can't define such objectives at a club that has had victory in its DNA for a 114 years. One disastrous season cannot shift mentalities so drastically. A large part of these objectives very clearly filter down into player mindsets, and they begin to work knowing hose objectives. It's almost subconscious. But without digressing, that apart, I even feel his handling of transfers showed us the the big club mentality he lacks in his repertoire.

Doing the Diego deal on Wolfsburg's terms, without securing a pre-agreement on Dzeko, who he publicly claimed to be Juve's priority showed his lack of finesse in continental
deals. Which I think to some extent explains his Italian fixation and his need to deal with Italian teams, his comfort zone. And even if he validates that by saying Italian players are most likely to adapt quicker in the league etc etc, then how on earth are we to forgive him, when he couldn't even secure the most talented Italian player of the generation for next to nothing. Sure, Cassano is a troublemaker, but he's also a match winner, something Juve have so desperately needed all season long, even before that season changing match against Chievo.

He may know him all too well from their time at Sampdoria, but if he knew what was best
for the club he would've taken the bull by the horns and gotten Antonio here. Instead I
feel like, again, he wanted to avoid upsetting Garrone who has absolutely no ties with
Juventus. Maybe a rational explanation for that would be that he wanted first rights on Pazzo, but he failed to get that job done too. All tell tale signs of a DG who can't cut it at a big club.

Clearly, his Sampdoria venture has conditioned him in a way that I feel is not likely to suit a big club like Juventus because this man has been unable to take that leap in his career when the opportunity presented itself. On one hand, we want to reduce the age group and
wage bill, on the other, we sign thirty three four year old Luca Toni on an 18 month
contract and pay him about the same we're paying a half year younger, sharper David Trezeguet whose still on our payroll but not on the team because we're reducing the
average age group (maybe we don't know how that deal really went down, and if Trezeguet is the one who wanted out, but if that was the case, why didn't we just sell him outright, why pay him when he's not even playing here?)

And sure, Bonucci, Quag, Sorensen, Krasic were value adds. But 15m for Bonucci showed how he only came thru as the highest bidder. Even Secco could've gotten him at that
price. And I'm not even going to get into the 12m we spent on Martinez. Quag for Diego would've been a masterstroke for some. But the way I see it, this move coincided with Fabio being in the form of his life, rather than Beppe's vision, because if it truly was about Marotta's vision, Fabio wouldn't have been third choice after collapsed moves for DiNatale and Boriello. And finally, as much as I love Matri, again, I don't know why so much time was lost in procuring his services when it was clear we needed a striker. Waiting till the last day didn't get him a better price, it only lost us two gamedays, that Matri could've scored in with or without the injured by then Toni.

Of course, to top it all, I think it was Marotta who brought Del Neri into the fold rather
than Agnelli, very clearly based on their working relationship at Sampdoria, again proving that this man knows nothing out of his comfort zone. In fact, even a fourth place objective may have seemed a more achievable task to 'him' personally rather than one in the best interests of the club.

I don't blame Marotta for not trying, but I think he's as lost and confused as Del Neri. These guys aren't only hurting us on the surface, but far more detrimentally, beneath it.
 

Suns

Release clause?
May 22, 2009
22,090
“Juventus need to sign three champions who are used to winning trophies, not eight who are used to finishing in fourth place. "

- David Trezeguet
 

Suns

Release clause?
May 22, 2009
22,090
If we'd signed three players this summer we'd have no squad.
Well, its not like we're a good team with that squad anyway. Quality starters, shit bench >> Average starters, shit bench.

And who'd say we'd be much worse without all those signings? Lets see..

Forwards: Trezeguet, DP, Iaquinta and one world class signing, for example Dzeko.
Wingers: Krasic, Giovinco, Camoranesi and Marchisio
Midfield: Melo, Diego, Marchisio, Sissoko and some primavera kid.
Fullbacks: Grosso, Brazzo, De Ceglie, van Der Wiel, Sörensen
Defenders: Chiellini, Legro, Bonucci, Grygera
Goalkeepers: Buffon, Manninger

Which would give us:

Giovinco - Dzeko - Krasic

Diego
Melo - Marchisio

DC - Chiellini - Bonucci - van der Wiel

Buffon​

Thats a much better team and I even counted the Krasic signing as a WC although we got him for only 15m.
 

JuveJay

Senior Signor
Moderator
Mar 6, 2007
74,984
Well, its not like we're a good team with that squad anyway. Quality starters, shit bench >> Average starters, shit bench.
It's good starters-average bench, don't make stuff up.

The former is only good if you have no injuries. We have injuries. We have many injuries. We always have many injuries. Therefore with no bench we are fucked.

Your team isn't bad, btw. Apart from the fact you've got Marchisio twice. The midfield is also very light of numbers and the defence is still thin. Also the whole Giovinco-Diego thing you insist on, which didn't work last season.
 

Suns

Release clause?
May 22, 2009
22,090
It's good starters-average bench, don't make stuff up.

The former is only good if you have no injuries. We have injuries. We have many injuries. We always have many injuries. Therefore with no bench we are fucked.

Your team isn't bad, btw. Apart from the fact you've got Marchisio twice. The midfield is also very light of numbers and the defence is still thin. Also the whole Giovinco-Diego thing you insist on, which didn't work last season.
If we had good starters we'd be a good team, and thats a thing we're not. So you shouldn't make stuff up.

But which bench players are missing from the bench you seem to think is average? Martinez? He's crap but sure lets say we'll replace him with Camo. Who else is missing? Legro can take Barzagli's spot. Pepe? I'd rather not even have him on the team period and I'd rather see Brazzo in Juventus instead of him. Who else have I missed that usually comes on from the bench? Oh yeah, nobody, cuz they all suck.
 

Bianconero81

Ageing Veteran
Jan 26, 2009
40,177
Oh, and Juvejay, had we actually signed 2 classy players every year since our promotion while giving ample opportunities to our youth, we would've been a world class team by now, as opposed to being the provincial outfit we have become.

You might think we have a good squad, but it's all relative; we are good by Serie A standards, and that is because Serie A is now a pathetic joke. This Juve wouldn't even finish in the top 7, let alone be fighting for a top 4 spot had we been in the late 90's or early 00's. Ultimately, we want to be competitive in Europe, and avoid being humiliated by mediocre teams, let alone the gargantuan teams from La Liga and the EPL.
 

JuveJay

Senior Signor
Moderator
Mar 6, 2007
74,984
If we had good starters we'd be a good team, and thats a thing we're not. So you shouldn't make stuff up.

But which bench players are missing from the bench you seem to think is average? Martinez? He's crap but sure lets say we'll replace him with Camo. Who else is missing? Legro can take Barzagli's spot. Pepe? I'd rather not even have him on the team period and I'd rather see Brazzo in Juventus instead of him. Who else have I missed that usually comes on from the bench? Oh yeah, nobody, cuz they all suck.
No, we do have a good first XI. When they played we were a good team, in terms of the hallowed results that one and all desire. That isn't why we 'suck'. Yes, those players on the bench are average. Your bench players don't even exist.
 

Buck Fuddy

Lara Chedraoui fanboy
May 22, 2009
10,888
Oh, and Juvejay, had we actually signed 2 classy players every year since our promotion while giving ample opportunities to our youth, we would've been a world class team by now, as opposed to being the provincial outfit we have become.
I agree. It really is/was that simple.

Not to forget that we have literally dozens of former youth players setting the world on fire at other teams right now.
 

Bjerknes

"Top Economist"
Mar 16, 2004
116,169
There's always some excuse purported.

First it was "we're building a solid base of players." Then it was "give them time." Then after that, it became "we had very little money to work with" (despite creating close to 85M in obligations should be sign everyone but Motta). Now it's "well, if we didn't do what we did, we wouldn't have a team."

This is just your typical propaganda campaign. It's like I'm reading the Federal Open Market Committee's statements on inflation. "No, we're not printing money. OK we're printing money, but not much, so don't worry. OK we're printing money but there's no inflation. OK there's inflation but we had to do it." :pado:
 

JuveJay

Senior Signor
Moderator
Mar 6, 2007
74,984
Oh, and Juvejay, had we actually signed 2 classy players every year since our promotion while giving ample opportunities to our youth, we would've been a world class team by now, as opposed to being the provincial outfit we have become.
I didn't realise Marotta was here then, thanks for pointing that out.

You might think we have a good squad, but it's all relative; we are good by Serie A standards, and that is because Serie A is now a pathetic joke. This Juve wouldn't even finish in the top 7, let alone be fighting for a top 4 spot had we been in the late 90's or early 00's. Ultimately, we want to be competitive in Europe, and avoid being humiliated by mediocre teams, let alone the gargantuan teams from La Liga and the EPL.
Different issue, but personally I couldn't care about CL teams in the context of Juve, we need to establish ourselves at home first and then things will follow. We aren't doing that yet. Also, mediocre league teams have won the CL before.
 

JuveJay

Senior Signor
Moderator
Mar 6, 2007
74,984
There's always some excuse purported.

First it was "we're building a solid base of players." Then it was "give them time." Then after that, it became "we had very little money to work with" (despite creating close to 85M in obligations should be sign everyone but Motta). Now it's "well, if we didn't do what we did, we wouldn't have a team."
Don't care about the other spiel, and I love your €85m imaginary argument addition again, but 9 months isn't time, first issue.

So we stick or twist. Twist looks easier, hasn't panned out that way in the last 5 years but let's do it again.
 

Bianconero81

Ageing Veteran
Jan 26, 2009
40,177
I agree. It really is/was that simple.

Not to forget that we have literally dozens of former youth players setting the world on fire at other teams right now.
No one said it was easy, but success comes at a price. You can't play it safe and hope to be the best! It simply never works that way.

As Juventus we are obliged to try our best, and try our hardest. We have been giving up way too easily in the past few seasons, whether in games or negotiations for players. Since our promotion from Serie B, all I have been hearing have been empty promises, excuses, and 5 year projects that seem to go on forever.
 

Suns

Release clause?
May 22, 2009
22,090
No, we do have a good first XI. When they played we were a good team, in terms of the hallowed results that one and all desire. That isn't why we 'suck'. Yes, those players on the bench are average. Your bench players don't even exist.
No we don't have a good starting eleven, lets not kid ourselves cuz if they were good we wouldn't have been 6th or 7th by now. Our team as a whole would have been so much better with only 3 or 4 quality signings rather than signing like 10 new players, thats the point I'm(and our buddy Trez) trying to prove. And players like Pepe, Rinaudo, Martinez and Motta haven't really made our bench better.
 

Bianconero81

Ageing Veteran
Jan 26, 2009
40,177
I didn't realise Marotta was here then, thanks for pointing that out.


Different issue, but personally I couldn't care about CL teams in the context of Juve, we need to establish ourselves at home first and then things will follow. We aren't doing that yet. Also, mediocre league teams have won the CL before.
:rolleyes: Why are you here Del Neri? Shouldn't you be out there on the pitch with your squad training them?

Apparently, you are prepared to wait another 20 years to see us life another CL trophy, something I am not quite comfortable with. Mediocre teams winning is the exception and not the rule. Milan, Manchester United, Chelsea, and Barcelona have been making the semis consistently over the past few seasons, and that is what we need to be aiming for.
 

KB824

Senior Member
Sep 16, 2003
31,789
Oh, and Juvejay, had we actually signed 2 classy players every year since our promotion while giving ample opportunities to our youth, we would've been a world class team by now, as opposed to being the provincial outfit we have become.

You might think we have a good squad, but it's all relative; we are good by Serie A standards, and that is because Serie A is now a pathetic joke. This Juve wouldn't even finish in the top 7, let alone be fighting for a top 4 spot had we been in the late 90's or early 00's. Ultimately, we want to be competitive in Europe, and avoid being humiliated by mediocre teams, let alone the gargantuan teams from La Liga and the EPL.
Isn't it safe to say that therein lies the crux of the problem? Wouldn't it be safe to say that basically everything for the past 4 seasons before this one had to be scrapped and started from scratch? Would you, as a reasonable person, expect a massive turnaround in the course of 12 months, to make up for 4 years of what is now being considered ineptitude on both the transfer market and the abhorrent lack of youth development? Development, as I have been saying since 2006, that should have happened the minute they got demoted to Serie B. If the proper mindset was in place, then that Serie B team would have been heavily infused with young talent, either from the primavera ranks, or through investments in youth domestically and abroad. that didn't happen, obviously.

So, when they cruised through Serie B and were promoted, instead of trying to get maximum value for the dollar and sell of some of the older players, regardless of their status as "legends" of the club, they kept them, when they should have started this rebuilding project much, much earlier.

However, fans and media expectations of Juventus simply do not allow for a true rebuilding project that takes 2-3 years to complete. There was no way that the majority of the people here on this forum, or around the world, would have accepted such a proposal.

"We are Juventus", they would say. "We won't accept a total rebuilding project, because We are Juventus". "We are accustomed to being at the top every single year."

But I really don't think that the board and management at the time really understood what had happened, and what was needed. Instead of staying firm to a commitment of building a Juventus worthy of CL and Serie A glory for the next decade, even if theat meant several years without silverware, they decided to add what amounted to be a bunch of spare parts to an ageing squad.

The minute they fired Deschamps due to "philisophical differences" in the direction that the team was heading, I knew in my gut that there were serious issues to how the Secco-Blanc-Gigli regime were going to go about rebuilding the team.
 

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