Giuseppe Marotta (137 Viewers)

[Xperd]

Insigne is an incredible player - a top 5 player in Serie A. Marotta appears to think Bernardeschi is Juve level too. And you actually wouldn't take Belotti?

If we truly think that the best players in Serie a are that much below us well we might as well give up because that would mean the league is in horrible shape and we will be Ajax in 10 years: fortunately, I'm of the belief that players like Insigne, Berardeschi and Belotti are Juve quality.

But none is 'Insigne' enough to buy a player like him for €90M. Just sayin

Donnarumma(for the future), Verratti are possibly the only Italian players who would offer improvement. Bernardeschi will be one for the future on the other hand especially when he's surrounded by players of international quality.

The key is complimenting Italian players with top foreign players. If we get somebody like Insigne to be the main man, then we would have a big problem.

 

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[italiacalcio10]

But none is 'Insigne' enough to buy a player like him for €90M. Just sayin

Donnarumma(for the future), Verratti are possibly the only Italian players who would offer improvement. Bernardeschi will be one for the future on the other hand especially when he's surrounded by players of international quality.

The key is complimenting Italian players with top foreign players. If we get somebody like Insigne to be the main man, then we would have a big problem.

I was throwing out hypotheticals with Dybala being worth 140 too. Perhaps Insigne isn't worth 90 but is Dybala really worth 140 or even 120. I like the player but I can see that he is overrated. He isn't Messi's heir and at this point it is actually a debate whether he is better than Insigne. Statistically Insigne is, but Dybala is a few years younger so he hasn't peaked.

Now I understand some people will mention Giovinco in the same sentence as Insigne but those people are flat out living under a rock if they believe that. Insigne is an attacking midfielder and striker, Giovinco is basically only a striker. Insigne is a much better, more balanced player who turns his strikers into goal machines. It as an absolutely ignorant brain dead comment to say that Insigne isn't worthy of Juventus.

Now to my point: why is Dybala considered better than Insigne? Production? No. Insigne is more productive than him in every aspect. Technical ability? Perhaps dribbling but Insigne is a better creater. It comes down to three things: and I know I will be unpopular for saying this but: he's argentine, technically gifted and has a killer left foot.

Don't get me wrong Dybala is a great player but right now Insigne is extremely underrated and Dybala who disappears for games at a time has been overrated. Am I advocating selling him? No. But if he wants out, I wouldn't consider it a material downgrade if we replaced him Insigne.

Other than that: I agree with you. The key is complementing domestic players with foreign players. But the key word complementing implies the base is Italian. Right now only our backline and keeper are Italian and their average age is like 35. The base should be Italian with positions that cannot be filled adequately domestically brought in with elite foreign players. People seemed to misunderstand my comment that I was advocating an overhaul of the team in one move. That wasn't the case. I was giving examples of foreign players who could leave and who could be brought in. They won't all leave, nor should they all be sold at once (can't believe I need to clarify that). I also wasn't suggesting filling the team with mediocre Italian players for the sake of having italians. We should aim to have all the best Italians, and it that isn't possible, get an equivalent or better foreign player.

The players that are good enough NOW to player in the starting 11 of a world class team are: Belotti, Insigne, Verratti, Florenzi (assuming his knee is ok and perhaps Donnarumma and Bernardeschi. The others I mentioned would need to play the bench at this point.

 

[il brutto]

Spoiler

I was throwing out hypotheticals with Dybala being worth 140 too. Perhaps Insigne isn't worth 90 but is Dybala really worth 140 or even 120. I like the player but I can see that he is overrated. He isn't Messi's heir and at this point it is actually a debate whether he is better than Insigne. Statistically Insigne is, but Dybala is a few years younger so he hasn't peaked.

Now I understand some people will mention Giovinco in the same sentence as Insigne but those people are flat out living under a rock if they believe that. Insigne is an attacking midfielder and striker, Giovinco is basically only a striker. Insigne is a much better, more balanced player who turns his strikers into goal machines. It as an absolutely ignorant brain dead comment to say that Insigne isn't worthy of Juventus.

Now to my point: why is Dybala considered better than Insigne? Production? No. Insigne is more productive than him in every aspect. Technical ability? Perhaps dribbling but Insigne is a better creater. It comes down to three things: and I know I will be unpopular for saying this but: he's argentine, technically gifted and has a killer left foot.

Don't get me wrong Dybala is a great player but right now Insigne is extremely underrated and Dybala who disappears for games at a time has been overrated. Am I advocating selling him? No. But if he wants out, I wouldn't consider it a material downgrade if we replaced him Insigne.

Other than that: I agree with you. The key is complementing domestic players with foreign players. But the key word complementing implies the base is Italian. Right now only our backline and keeper are Italian and their average age is like 35. The base should be Italian with positions that cannot be filled adequately domestically brought in with elite foreign players. People seemed to misunderstand my comment that I was advocating an overhaul of the team in one move. That wasn't the case. I was giving examples of foreign players who could leave and who could be brought in. They won't all leave, nor should they all be sold at once (can't believe I need to clarify that). I also wasn't suggesting filling the team with mediocre Italian players for the sake of having italians. We should aim to have all the best Italians, and it that isn't possible, get an equivalent or better foreign player.

The players that are good enough NOW to player in the starting 11 of a world class team are: Belotti, Insigne, Verratti, Florenzi (assuming his knee is ok and perhaps Donnarumma and Bernardeschi. The others I mentioned would need to play the bench at this point.

Look when multiple people think your idea is stupid it most likely is stupid. It's not the other people on this forum who overrate players because they are Argentinian and left footed it's you who has a crazy nationalistic bias towards Italian and Colombian players. Just last summer you wanted us to sign scrubs like Mattia Destro and Graziano Pelle just because they are Italian.

When it comes to Insigne he is a very good player but again not underrated at all. It's just that you overrate him so much that everything must feel like underrating him to you.

 

[italiacalcio10]

Look when multiple people think your idea is stupid it most likely is stupid. It's not the other people on this forum who overrate players because they are Argentinian and left footed it's you who has a crazy nationalistic bias towards Italian and Colombian players. Just last summer you wanted us to sign scrubs like Mattia Destro and Graziano Pelle just because they are Italian.

When it comes to Insigne he is a very good player but again not underrated at all. It's just that you overrate him so much that everything must feel like underrating him to you.

Worth noting: those signings I suggested as depth but will admit when I'm wrong on something, especially Destro has ended up being a massive flop. I did like Pelle and I still think he never hit his potential. Destro was touted prospect with a strong strike rate unfortunately something happened and he became crap.

And I think you're misunderstanding me. It isn't a bias for Italians. It is that I believe the best way to build a team in any league is through 1) the academy 2) with domestic players 3) foreign players when needed. If I was running Barcelona I'd want a strong Spanish base. Historically, the best teams have strong domestic bases, and are often academy driven.

Now as for the point about people disagreeing: well
1) people appeared to misunderstand my point. I don't want a massive overhaul. I was giving examples.
2) sometimes the minority can be right about things. Many people said Pogba was overrated. Many here did not agree. Answer me this question: what exactly makes Dybala a more effective player than Insigne because I can statistically show the opposite: not saying stats are the entire story but humour me: show me what makes Dybala that much better than Insigne. And popular opinion is not a good answer.

Honestly, I think the backlash wouldn't have been as great if I didn't list players. Because I got the impression that people thought I was advocating selling all those players and buying them all as straight replacements, which wasn't true. Half those players are u-21s lol. I may have a preference for domestic players but I wouldn't suggest that we fill our 11 with a bunch of u21s.

Also I don't have a bias for Colombian players. I simply like Cuadrado and James. If I liked Douglas Costa and Neymar, would you say I have a bias for Brazilians? Also if we had a choice of Insigne or James I'd take Insigne (begrudgingly).

 

[il brutto]

Worth noting: those signings I suggested as depth but will admit when I'm wrong on something, especially Destro has ended up being a massive flop. I did like Pelle and I still think he never hit his potential. Destro was touted prospect with a strong strike rate unfortunately something happened and he became crap.

And I think you're misunderstanding me. It isn't a bias for Italians. It is that I believe the best way to build a team in any league is through 1) the academy 2) with domestic players 3) foreign players when needed. If I was running Barcelona I'd want a strong Spanish base. Historically, the best dreams have strong domestic bases, and are often academy driven.

Now as for the point about people disagreeing: well
1) people appeared to misunderstand my point. I don't want a massive overhaul. I was giving examples.
2) sometimes the minority can be right about things. Many people said Pogba was overrated. Many here did not agree. Answer me this question: what exactly makes Dybala a more effective player than Insigne because I can statistically show the opposite: not saying stats are the entire story but humour me: show me what makes Dybala that much better than Insigne. And popular opinion is not a good answer.

Honestly, I think the backlash wouldn't have been as great if I didn't list players. Because I got the impression that people thought I was advocating selling all those players and buying them all as straight replacements, which wasn't true. Half those players are u-21s lol. I may have a preference for domestic players but I wouldn't suggest that we fill our 11 with a bunch of u21s.

Also I don't have a bias for Colombian players. I simply like Cuadrado and James. If I liked Douglas Costa and Neymar, would you say I have a bias for Brazilians? Also if we had a choice of Insigne or James I'd take Insigne (begrudgingly).

Look I don't have anything against Italian players and I'm of the opinion that we always need to have some sort of Italian core in our team. I'm sure we already have quite a few Italian youngsters in our team that we want to be part of our next Italian core.

Dybala vs Insigne is a tough one as firstly they don't play in the same position and secondly the teams they do play in are completely different in terms of playing style. Napoli is a well oiled attacking machine while Juve is well structured team. There is also the fact that I watch every single game Dybala plays in and only have a handful of Napoli games and the Azzuri games to build my opinion on Insigne. I have no doubt that you can but Dybala in every single team in the world and he will thrive can't really say the same for Insigne.

When it comes to one of your selling points loyalty I see Dybala as potentially a much more loyal towards Juve than someone like Insigne. Insigne is loyal to Napoli he was born there and probably hates Juve don't see how he would be more loyal to Juve than someone who actually really wanted to come here and has only said good things about Juve. Loyalty is not only about nationality as we have seen with the likes of Nedved and Trezequet (even Camo who is more of an Argentinian).

Even if I go along with this hypothetical that we sell Dybala I'm pretty sure that signing Insigne from Napoli is almost impossible. Dybala had an off year by his own standards which is the only reason this kind of comparison can be made without it being absolutely ridiculous. I'm sure next season it will again be very unflattering to Insigne to make such comparisons.

It's all well and fine though to disagree on players, the future will prove one of us right

 

[italiacalcio10]

Look I don't have anything against Italian players and I'm of the opinion that we always need to have some sort of Italian core in our team. I'm sure we already have quite a few Italian youngsters in our team that we want to be part of our next Italian core.

Dybala vs Insigne is a tough one as firstly they don't play in the same position and secondly the teams they do play in are completely different in terms of playing style. Napoli is a well oiled attacking machine while Juve is well structured team. There is also the fact that I watch every single game Dybala plays in and only have a handful of Napoli games and the Azzuri games to build my opinion on Insigne. I have no doubt that you can but Dybala in every single team in the world and he will thrive can't really say the same for Insigne.

When it comes to one of your selling points loyalty I see Dybala as potentially a much more loyal towards Juve than someone like Insigne. Insigne is loyal to Napoli he was born there and probably hates Juve don't see how he would be more loyal to Juve than someone who actually really wanted to come here and has only said good things about Juve. Loyalty is not only about nationality as we have seen with the likes of Nedved and Trezequet (even Camo who is more of an Argentinian).

Even if I go along with this hypothetical that we sell Dybala I'm pretty sure that signing Insigne from Napoli is almost impossible. Dybala had an off year by his own standards which is the only reason this kind of comparison can be made without it being absolutely ridiculous. I'm sure next season it will again be very unflattering to Insigne to make such comparisons.

It's well and fine though to disagree on players, the future will prove one of us right

I do agree that signing Insigne is impossible. And believe me I hope Dybala ends up being better and stays with us. But his inconsistency concerns me. To name him with Messi is crazy. Even on his worst days, Messi is dangerous. That being said even if he isn't as good as Messi, doesn't mean he isn't a great player.

 

[DAiDEViL]

What is Insigne worth if a player like Bernardeschi already goes for €45m?

 

[il brutto]

I do agree that signing Insigne is impossible. And believe me I hope Dybala ends up being better and stays with us. But his inconsistency concerns me. To name him with Messi is crazy. Even on his worst days, Messi is dangerous. That being said even if he isn't as good as Messi, doesn't mean he isn't a great player.

Messi comparisons are just some media bullshit and Zamparini hyping him up to get a better price. Don't think anyone seriously compares him to Messi and yes the comparison is totally crazy.

 

[italiacalcio10]

Messi comparisons are just some media bull$#@! and Zamparini hyping him up to get a better price. Don't think anyone seriously compares him to Messi and yes the comparison is totally crazy.

Which means EPL teams probably think he is the next Messi.

- - - Updated - - -

What is Insigne worth if a player like Bernardeschi already goes for €45m?

Well according to this article from a week ago:
http://it.eurosport.com/calcio/seri...ne-vale-piu-di-belotti_sto6217317/story.shtml

(These guys "CIES" measure transfer value based on algorithms", in Euros)

1) Neymar - 210
2) Alli - 155.1
3) Kane - 153.6
4) Messi - 151.7
5) Griezmann - 150.3
6) Suarez - 140.8
7) Pogba - 134.4
8) Higuain - 120.2
9) Hazard - 117.2
10) Dybala - 115.3
11) Ronaldo - 112.4

Other Notables:
18) Mbappe - 92.6
32) Insigne - 75.7
36) Belotti - 71.9
72) Immobile - 52.8
99) Pjanic - 43.9
106) Sandro - 40.5
109) Bonucci - 40.2

Algorithm is based on:
- Player performance
- Position
- Contract
- Age
- International Status
- The club they play for

It isn't perfect obviously, but it does give an indication. For example, I notice tons of Spurs players probably because of the EPL factor, and fact that the Spurs usually get absurd valuations on their sales. I think it undervalues the valuation for elite players. For example Messi & Ronaldo would go for much more just because of marketing appeal and their relative superiority. Bonucci and Sandro would go for more as well I think. Bonucci because he is a rare example of a player who has the reputation of being a world class defender with respect to both playing the ball and defensive strength. Sandro I think would go for more because he is very unique, the Arturo Vidal of left back, very complete player on both sides of the pitch. Players like Immobile would go for a lot less because of their failures in other leagues. Insigne's valuation I believe is in the correct ball park as is Dybala's based on current reputation and performance. Higuain is probably a bit lower due to his reputation as a big game bottler. Pjanic probably should be higher. Belotti I think is accurate. Hazard probably is lower than what it should be. Just my opinion...

 

[Wittl]

Well according to this article from a week ago:
http://it.eurosport.com/calcio/seri...ne-vale-piu-di-belotti_sto6217317/story.shtml

Spoiler

(These guys "CIES" measure transfer value based on algorithms", in Euros)

1) Neymar - 210
2) Alli - 155.1
3) Kane - 153.6
4) Messi - 151.7
5) Griezmann - 150.3
6) Suarez - 140.8
7) Pogba - 134.4
8) Higuain - 120.2
9) Hazard - 117.2
10) Dybala - 115.3
11) Ronaldo - 112.4

Other Notables:
18) Mbappe - 92.6
32) Insigne - 75.7
36) Belotti - 71.9
72) Immobile - 52.8
99) Pjanic - 43.9
106) Sandro - 40.5
109) Bonucci - 40.2

Algorithm is based on:
- Player performance
- Position
- Contract
- Age
- International Status
- The club they play for

It isn't perfect obviously, but it does give an indication. For example, I notice tons of Spurs players probably because of the EPL factor, and fact that the Spurs usually get absurd valuations on their sales. I think it undervalues the valuation for elite players. For example Messi & Ronaldo would go for much more just because of marketing appeal and their relative superiority. Bonucci and Sandro would go for more as well I think. Bonucci because he is a rare example of a player who has the reputation of being a world class defender with respect to both playing the ball and defensive strength. Sandro I think would go for more because he is very unique, the Arturo Vidal of left back, very complete player on both sides of the pitch. Players like Immobile would go for a lot less because of their failures in other leagues. Insigne's valuation I believe is in the correct ball park as is Dybala's based on current reputation and performance. Higuain is probably a bit lower due to his reputation as a big game bottler. Pjanic probably should be higher. Belotti I think is accurate. Hazard probably is lower than what it should be. Just my opinion...

Yes, and Eric Dier and Eriksen also in top 20 or something like that. It's this fuck made by a retarded Tottenham Fan.

 

[Buck Fuddy]

We have no intention of selling anyone, but if a player decides to leave, as has happened in previous years, then at the end of the day he has to go, because we don’t keep anyone against their will.

Personally, I'm perfectly fine with that.

But there's a big difference between keeping someone against their will & letting someone leave for free.

 

[Zacheryah]

Insigne better then dybala.


Seems like that heat wave isnt just hitting belgium

 

[Hust]

Personally, I'm perfectly fine with that.

But there's a big difference between keeping someone against their will & letting someone leave for free.

 

[lgorTudor]

What is Insigne worth if a player like Bernardeschi already goes for €45m?

47m?

 

[campionesidd]

In today's market, no club is immune from having its best players linked to a big money transfer. Yes, even Man United (De Gea), Real (Ronaldo) and Bayern (Lewandowski). The question is whether you have a board strong enough to bid the bidders vaffanculo.
If Bonucci, Sandro or Dybala leave us this season or the next, I think it's time to part with Marotta. He's done a terrific job, 10/10, but he's taken the club as far as he could.

 

[IliveForJuve]

Barcelona and RM starters are immune to transfers unless the club wants to get rid of them.

 

[JuveJay]

Barcelona and RM starters are immune to transfers unless the club wants to get rid of them.

Not immune, but top players won't leave for sporting or lifestyle reasons.

 

[Liviu]

Is it just me or more and more people here are not happy with Marotta since last year? I was never a big fan of him, thou he did good in is first years but since then our revenue and prestige increased a lot, 2 CL finals in 3 years, titles RLC and he looks like he can't handle this new Juve. He's too cheap, negociates the last cent and waits too long to make it cheaper...this is Torino / Lazio level he can't sign big with bells on unless he sells big so in the end it's a tie.

That "if a player asks to leave" is also stupid because you're telling your player that you don't consider him indispensable and you don;t do anything in your power to keep him here so he ends up feeling meh, unwanted so he can easily hind a new club and a better salary.

I really don't like how other clubs push us in transfer market despite having far less impressive results (Assnal, Union, PSG, Shitty), I don't like how agents push us (remember how Real dealt with pizza boy) and now even our players push us around...this is all a result of a soft, cojonesless board. We need stronger, more ambitious Elkann, Agnelli and a new general manager. Unlucky for us, Allegri doesn't ask for players any more after getting Nanes when he wanted Isco...but who can blame him??

I'd really be curious of a poll, how many would street Beppe...

 

[il brutto]

Thankfully we're not in charge.

 

[JuveJay]

Players aren't indispensable, Marotta has been very clear that it's club and "team" far ahead of any individual. He's said it over and over again. What do they need, an arm around them to make them feel like special snowflakes?

We're a super professional organisation and aren't going to be pandering to individual players or mollycoddling them. Of course if they deserve a big contract based on their play there is every chance we can provide that, within our budget.

My memory isn't that good but maybe at this point last year the grumbles were all the same. Year before as well. There will be grumbles until we win the CL. It's the game that sticks in the mind, it's an itch you can't scratch until the proper stuff starts again. Throw in three months of being fed bullshit by the media and everyone is well and truly wound up by then.

Ultimately we had a very good mercato both last year and the year before when you weigh up the ins and outs, at least for the approach we were supposed to be using. Our formation change altered that and the Pjaca injury left us light.