Giuseppe Marotta (144 Viewers)

[Cronios]

You are forgetting tmany things, like the players we lose on free or cheap, like Criscito in the bonucci deal, the co own deals when smaller teams take advantage of not including buy clauses and force us to pay more in order to get our player back (Giovinco), the partial salary fees we pay even on players we loan to smaller teams etc etc.

And dont forget, how much it hurts us to pay without certain key players, Conte asked for a number of player when he joined and because they are not he was forced to swich formations and make tactical changes that were less than optimal, only because of Marotta;s inability.

Even now, we are forced to make compromises and suffering a lot from them.
Ex the lack of a dedicated finisher, we have lost countless points and more tittle chances because Marotta was unable to get us one.
And i am not refferinf to world class only, even decent ones, like every other serie A team has, but us...
How can Napoli, Udinese, Fiorentina, Inter and Milan can find one and we cant?
They are not all more wealthy than us, they all playing in the same league with us, not everybody has CL esured every year and yet they can find the players they need and we dont...

And didnt just happened once, for years and years we are struggling for a decent solution and couldnt go past the Borriellos and Bendtners...
This is our primary target and should not be only considered as target.
Because an upgrade there would greatly affect our team's performance, whilst an upgrade for a position that is already stacked up, holds far less substance.
Marotta's greatest transfers were opportunity targets, not primary targets, this is a very important perspective for his performance, the opportunity arises simply by pure luck, he only just had to take advantage of it,
but to cover your specific needs, you need to actually work for it. This is when it really matters.

 

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[Vlad]

Marotta's greatest transfers were opportunity targets, not primary targets, this is a very important perspective for his performance, the opportunity arises simply by pure luck, he only just had to take advantage of it,
but to cover your specific needs, you need to actually work for it. This is when it really matters.

So could many.

 

[JuveJay]

You are forgetting tmany things, like the players we lose on free or cheap, like Criscito in the bonucci deal, the co own deals when smaller teams take advantage of not including buy clauses and force us to pay more in order to get our player back (Giovinco), the partial salary fees we pay even on players we loan to smaller teams etc etc.

We sold Criscito for €12.5m altogether to Genoa (€1m loan, €5.5m co-own, €6m outright ownership), I don't know why you keep waffling on about him in a deal for Bonucci.

The Giovinco situation has been covered before, and I've not included players who have returned for one season, as their futures haven't been decided.

 

[Zacheryah]

Cronios, you and many people dont seemb to understand, how hard it is for teams like juventus, to get rid of lesser, or failed players

No one wants em, you'll allways sell below value.

If the wage is to high, sometimes its just plain better to let them go for free and get rid of them on the books, opposed to not beeing able to sell, and have you paying their wages.

So juve getting rid of those players, not a big deal, you'll be saving wages wich is much more important.

Juve has rebuild from ground, we have created some dept in the team, and its actually quite good.

caceres + lucio, was perfect for the centreback, now we need a replacement for lucio. NO HE WASENT A STARTER, he was a 5th centreback
padoin and peluso, as subs for asa and licht.

Centremid is flooded.

The attack, got like 4 players on the same level and vucinic. The only problem conte has, is that he wishes the level of the attack to be higher. and thats it.


lastly, you are naming peasent teams, that are essentially seller teams. they explore unproven players and know they need to sell to keep afloat.

we do the same for filler players, and use more caution when its for starters. Because we are not a seller team

 

[baggio]

Are you really criticizing others for not being rational?

And what's the fixation (not just you, more like 90% of the people it seems) with assigning everything to one single person. I thought Juve was a team of people fighting for results. But I was wrong, since every little achievement or failure can obviously be contributed to a single person, whether that is Conte, Marotta, Agnelli or a player.

Funny, you wouldn't quote somebody who claims him to be the reason why we've won so much in your rational argument. Despite not agreeing with some of his decision making, I have said quite a few times that he has been par for the course. Nobody here even attempts at finding middle ground.

On one hand, you have people like Nzoric saying he's good for us because Tevez would demand a 7m salary and Marrotta will not pay that, rightfully so, without realizing that's pretty close to what we have offered the likes of Aguero and RvP in the past.

We have people saying we can't bring a star player because we don't have money despite the fact that we have chased big money signings including their wages and failed - and spent 220m on transfer fees along the way. Or if someone as rated as GDM says we made a big bid for Jojo at the end of a mercato window, it is considered untrue. Even though he's probably closer to the truth than anybody here.

If we question our approach of chasing big stars on our terms and not entering bidding wars, we aren't justified to do so, because, either the press is pulling shit out of their asses or there's nothing wrong in making an enquiry with a big player (and if weve spent time chasing him then again it's fabricated)

We even have people talking about how badly we needed a cash injection in his second season here, while losing sight of the fact that we spent a huge amount in his first season here, on purchases that he himself tried to get rid of the following season.

And finally, and most importantly, I don't think guys who criticise him have anything against him personally or want to accuse him or his ethics or whatever. It is only natural though, that it provokes a debate when somebody talks about Marrotta being the sole reason why we are where we are or having brought us to a world beating position by getting the likes of Barzagli, Pogba, Llorente for free. You have still spent a truckload of cash along the way. Im guessing this is where a lot of the argument(s) stem from.

Despite everything that I may think or say about my take on this topic, I have backed Marrotta to get the job done this season, and even if he gets Tevez, despite it being the easiest deal of the three, I will think that he's done a good job. Read my posts all over the last page with regard to the report that says we could sack him, where I said that it will be silly to do so right now and its not in anybody's best interests.

 

[Cronios]

^ It is a disgrace to Conte's work to say that we have won that much because of MArotta, when under MArotta's firm hand, but with different coaches we have ranked 7th two seasons in a row. All football supporters in serie A, praise and respect Conte for what he did with us, it is a shame that some Juve fans give that credit to Marotta instead...

So could many.

and so they did, for ex, when Balotelli was available, we cant know if Marotta tried for that too and lost him to competition.
for us that acquisition would be far more important than any CM and Marotta would earn eternal praise.

Opportunity targets are fine, but they should be considered depending on our needs.
Some times Marotta gets carried away and spends our limited funds on opportunity targets and then he cannot meet the requirements for our primary targets, either because there is no time or budget left.

This should be criticised, not praised. Those opportunity targets, that come in the expense of our primary targets, some times they make hurt our cause, more than helping it.
For ex, for 10 consecutive years, we have been spending most of our budget on new SSs and CMs, but our needs lie elsewhere, particularly in the finisher position, for the past 3 -4 years.
When Marotta brings a new decent SS or CM, either because he happened to be available on the cheap, or just as a consolation prize, we should not overlook the damage amde, for not acquiring what we really needed and only praise him for the acquisition. Everyone can spend money and everyone can use Juventus's name to attrack some interest from players like Krasic, Vidal and Pogba.

But is this what we really need right now, just some random opportunity targets?

With Conte, we have reached in a position that we can compete for me, we need to go to the next level and there is obviously smth that is holding us back and we cannot make those steps to reach the most competitive clubs. We should stop being pleased with mediocrity and focus on what is really needed.
We should stop making excuses to our selves. Last summer we were in a position to burst into a top dog, we only needed a couple of starters to deal with our greatest weakness.
Marotta has failed to improve them, we were all frustrated because of the lost opportunity, by the end of the summer and after a year we are yet again repeating the same things and forgetting what happened just in the previous trnasfer windows.

Overjoyed by a league title, that would have come anyway, without the acquisitions we made this season, just like it did last year, we are forgetting that last year was Marotta's chance and he has failed us!
He has already proven his incompetence to give us what we want and here we are again, praising him for Conte's deeds and hoping for the new Dzekos and RVPs...

Marotta never ever managed in his carrier to land a guy like them, or Cavani or Higuain, such high profile targets attract interest and competition that goes beyond his league.
Simple as that, no hurt feelings, but we need to move forward.

We are Juve fans, we need the best for our team, if Marotta would be able to give us, i dont see why any of us, would want him out.
The criticism on him, has some certain motives and for Juve fans, it obviously is to see Juve thrive, to see Juve go past any obstacles that hold her back, either be internal or external, either be malefic or moronic.


PS: i understand and in a degree share the fear, that we could do worse though, by bringing a new Secco like water boy.
Of course we can do better and our board has a tendency to do that. But is we dont dare, we will never improve.
We are now in a better negotiating position and have more ppl relevant to football to advice us, we can appeal to manangers we never could before,
it is a moment we would opt for an upgrade.

 

[JuveJay]

^ It is a disgrace to Conte's work to say that we have won that much because of MArotta, when under MArotta's firm hand, but with different coaches we have ranked 7th two seasons in a row.

 

[Buck Fuddy]

Funny, you wouldn't quote somebody who claims him to be the reason why we've won so much in your rational argument. Despite not agreeing with some of his decision making, I have said quite a few times that he has been par for the course. Nobody here even attempts at finding middle ground.

On one hand, you have people like Nzoric saying he's good for us because Tevez would demand a 7m salary and Marrotta will not pay that, rightfully so, without realizing that's pretty close to what we have offered the likes of Aguero and RvP in the past.

We have people saying we can't bring a star player because we don't have money despite the fact that we have chased big money signings including their wages and failed - and spent 220m on transfer fees along the way. Or if someone as rated as GDM says we made a big bid for Jojo at the end of a mercato window, it is considered untrue. Even though he's probably closer to the truth than anybody here.

If we question our approach of chasing big stars on our terms and not entering bidding wars, we aren't justified to do so, because, either the press is pulling shit out of their asses or there's nothing wrong in making an enquiry with a big player (and if weve spent time chasing him then again it's fabricated)

We even have people talking about how badly we needed a cash injection in his second season here, while losing sight of the fact that we spent a huge amount in his first season here, on purchases that he himself tried to get rid of the following season.

And finally, and most importantly, I don't think guys who criticise him have anything against him personally or want to accuse him or his ethics or whatever. It is only natural though, that it provokes a debate when somebody talks about Marrotta being the sole reason why we are where we are or having brought us to a world beating position by getting the likes of Barzagli, Pogba, Llorente for free. You have still spent a truckload of cash along the way. Im guessing this is where a lot of the argument(s) stem from.

Despite everything that I may think or say about my take on this topic, I have backed Marrotta to get the job done this season, and even if he gets Tevez, despite it being the easiest deal of the three, I will think that he's done a good job. Read my posts all over the last page with regard to the report that says we could sack him, where I said that it will be silly to do so right now and its not in anybody's best interests.

Relax, I just couldn't resist replying to the "rational" bit, since about 95% of what you read on here is actually the opposite of rational. And when it comes to you, the Quag situation comes to mind

I think Cronios has posted that about a dozen times already

He can be entertaining at times, shame he's also a pathological liar. Or lair, I'm not sure.

 

[Vlad]

He repeats it quite often. Guess he has some saved document which he posts from time to time. Better to update it then. @Cronios
But I can understand your point of view cronios. Can't say I agree.

 

[ZoSo]

Who do you suppose hired Delneri and Marotta? Also, do you think this decision isn't put across the entire BOD, of which Marotta is CEO? The same BOD who determine financial strategy? After all, if Marotta was taking transfer advice from forum members we wouldn't have any financial stability to talk about.

As Buck said, apportioning things to one person to suit an argument isn't very wise. That goes for everything, including positive transfers, bad transfers, and salaries given.

Whatever, it was Agnelli and BOD. These are just semantics to the fact that Marotta gets undeserved praise.

We can count them, these are the undeniably bad transfers from his spell:

Salaries before tax.

Total: €61.8m

Deduce:
Grand total: €47.6m

Feel free to throw in a lot of additional subjective choices as bad transfers.

So the transfers you think are good are objective and not subjective? :derp:

btw here is my list:
http://forum.juventuz.org/threads/30148-Giuseppe-Marotta?p=4200473#post4200473

Give or take 20-30m for 'objective/subjective' minus 10-15m for transfers and wow, it's only 80m+ instead of 100m. Hail the great Marotta.

I don't even know what this means? Are you saying we should be amongst the Bayern's, Barcelona's right now?

So are you suggesting the level that we are at now (behind those teams) is all down to Marotta? Thought you said we shouldn't be giving credit to one person...

Right now, maybe not.. but we should be trying to approach that level in the coming season with some good transfers.

 

[Zacheryah]

Seems that the more a person knows about how finances at business level work, the more he respects marotta's work, and the less he knows, the more he hates.

Nothing new

 

[ZoSo]

Seems that the more a person knows about how finances at business level work, the more he respects marotta's work, and the less he knows, the more he hates.

Nothing new

Ignorance at it's finest, ladies and gentlemen.

 

[ALC]

I wonder if the apologists will still protect him if he doesn't renew.

 

[JuveJay]

Whatever, it was Agnelli and BOD. These are just semantics to the fact that Marotta gets undeserved praise.

Marotta is part of that board, so he surely deserves praise. Obviously saying it is all down to him is nonsense, as is what you said about Agnelli.

So the transfers you think are good are objective and not subjective? :derp:

Derp indeed, because that's not what I said. I marked the ones undeniably bad, that offered little or next to no value in purchasing them.

I did make a mistake though, I should have excluded Krasic considering his first season. The trend is that generally most of Marotta's bad signings are low risk ones, often players not expected to be more than squad or back up players.

btw here is my list:
http://forum.juventuz.org/threads/30148-Giuseppe-Marotta?p=4200473#post4200473

Give or take 20-30m for 'objective/subjective' minus 10-15m for transfers and wow, it's only 80m+ instead of 100m. Hail the great Marotta.

Iaquinta, Lanzafame? (wtf) Borriello? Matri but not Quagliarella? Exactly what I mean....you could make a case for €150m of players doing that.

So are you suggesting the level that we are at now (behind those teams) is all down to Marotta? Thought you said we shouldn't be giving credit to one person...

You seem to have avoided my question.

As for your question, I don't even know where you get that from. Just putting words in my mouth. In fact there seems to be a lot of this, where people are making statements in response to views that don't even exist.

Even the most biased backers of our board or Marotta are not going to suggest that.

 

[Vlad]

I wonder if the apologists will still protect him if he doesn't renew.

Or will the critics be silenced a bit if he manages to sign a top striker.
Don't get me wrong. Criticism is welcomed as it keeps you on guard but here it looks like excessive at times and rather illogical.

 

[Buck Fuddy]

I wonder if the apologists will still protect him if he doesn't renew.

Again, I must ask. Where does all this renewal stuff come from?

L'Assemblea ha inoltre determinato in 10 il numero dei componenti del Consiglio di Amministrazione per gli eserci 2012/2013, 2013/2014 e 2014/2015, nominando amministratori Andrea Agnelli, ... Giuseppe Marotta, ....

http://www.juventus.com/wps/wcm/con...&CACHEID=9a6399f5-8fa9-451f-9d57-e91f5ed1c398


Link edited.

 

[Vlad]

Can't open it.

 

[alexjuventino]

Can't open it.

Yea same

 

[Enron]

 

[Zacheryah]

Ignorance at it's finest, ladies and gentlemen.

Ignorance ?

You are posting some stuff from a freshmen point of view, while Jay and zebra were providing actual financial analysis

i wonder who i should listen to