Giuseppe Marotta (148 Viewers)

[Vlad]

Yes, ACTUAL financial analysis. You don't even know what an actual financial analysis is, where are ratios on return on equity, debt to equity etc? Where is share price overview, analysis of balance sheets etc? Even if there is some fact from other websites, Juventus itself etc, we are mostly discussing the opinion side and not disputing objective things. You are the only one claiming things like Marotta is amazing as fact, as I'm pretty sure everyone else knows it is just their opinions being shared. And you think because you read one thread on finances you are automatically a financial genius and anyone that holds different views to things not even regarding that stuff is an idiot. I've already told you 500 times, stop acting like such a know-it-all. All you do is regurgitate your opinion as fact and somehow in your little ignorant mind you think everything you say is objective because you are not being critical and because 'Marotta won 2 scudetti'. I've really had enough of listening to this from you, while the rest of us have a civilised conversation. All you ever do is talk down to people because you think what you say is fact.

Horizontal and vertical analysis of reports, exposure to various types of risk, forecasts... Analysis is much more than random numbers put on paper. You got this one right. But in the context of this debate you don't need more.

 

Buy on AliExpress.com

[Salvatore]

I know this is a rant but it really pisses me off when someone new to this forum can't get a word in without being ignored

I find that I might skip posts if the user doesn't have an avatar, slightly irrational might be to do with associating people with pictures.

Just seen that you can turn off avatars and signatures, trying that out.

 

[Zacheryah]

@Zacheryah

I have allready replied to him, but thank you for making me aware you cannot read 7 posts above

- - - Updated - - -

Horizontal and vertical analysis of reports, exposure to various types of risk, forecasts... Analysis is much more than random numbers put on paper. You got this one right. But in the context of this debate you don't need more.

The thing really is, the level of detail the financial posts of the negativists contain, is vastly inferior to those of the realists

 

[.zero]

Thanks for Peluso, I have no doubt that he will be the highest rated summer acquisition on your books.

 

[napoleonic]

I have allready replied to him, but thank you for making me aware you cannot read 7 posts above

- - - Updated - - -



The thing really is, the level of detail the financial posts of the negativists contain, is vastly inferior to those of the realists

realists you know what is realistic for this summer juve transfer?

1 30m euros higuain/jovetic, 1 FREE cb and 1 FREE cm

I`LL CALL THAT REALISTIC, do you agree mr. realist?

for me that's better than a 10m backup cb, a 10 m backup cm/amc and a 10m 3rd rate striker.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

Why does this keep coming up?
http://www.juventus.com/wps/wcm/con...&CACHEID=9a6399f5-8fa9-451f-9d57-e91f5ed1c398

how does this cancel anything i said?

 

[Zacheryah]

Thanks for Peluso, I have no doubt that he will be the highest rated summer acquisition on your books.

Stop acting like a dumbass. We need a stand in for asamoah. 4 mil is a reasonable price. deal with it.

Seriously, why do people like you act like they are on their worst fucking bloody infesting period ever when we buy a stand in player, or a free backup.
Lack of knowledge ?

realists you know what is realistic for this summer juve transfer?

1 30m euros higuain/jovetic, 1 FREE cb and 1 FREE cm

I`LL CALL THAT REALISTIC, do you agree mr. realist?

for me that's better than a 10m backup cb, a 10 m backup cm/amc and a 10m 3rd rate striker.

Its not realistic as apparently we cannot spend even over 22mil, considering the Higuain issues.

 

[.zero]

Stop acting like a dumbass. We need a stand in for asamoah. 4 mil is a reasonable price. deal with it.

Seriously, why do people like you act like they are on their worst fucking bloody infesting period ever when we buy a stand in player, or a free backup.
Lack of knowledge ?



Its not realistic as apparently we cannot spend even over 22mil, considering the Higuain issues.

You're one to talk

 

[ZoSo]

Its not realistic as apparently we cannot spend even over 22mil, considering the Higuain issues.

Yes :derp:

- - - Updated - - -

You're one to talk

 

[baggio]

 

[Klin]

Seems that the more a person knows about how finances at business level work, the more he respects marotta's work, and the less he knows, the more he hates.

Nothing new

Damn, you must be one hell of a business man then.

 

[Salvatore]

This is where I disagree. That squad didn't really have to be redesigned in its entirety. In fact, for me, Marrotta was most careless in his first year, at a time that we assumed we were in financial trouble and burdened by the lack of success. That team, for my money, needed two full backs and two quality wingers over all else. Especially since Del Neri was an exponent of the 442.

Could you name any Secco players worth keeping? Even one I was doubtful over at the time has proved to be a good sell now, the squad's core and best performing players were still Moggi's work throughout the seasons the previous management was in charge, what does that say about them? The few that did put in a period of good performances (eg Iaquinta, Sissoko) either declined or were struck by a few injuries and then declined. There are clear ideas in this Juve compared to the last one, not hard to see why many players have been told where to go as they clearly don't fit in, players that lock the president in the toilet or act selfishly enough to stop trying in a derby match. The sale that made no sense was Trezeguet and it still looks like a stupid decision, I was pretty big on Cáceres staying as well and Beppe was kind enough to return him to Turin. Redesigning the squad in a short period was worth it in the end, even if there were a number of questionable decisions along the way.

We spent 25m on Krasic and Pepe to cover the right wing. And 12m on a shot in the dark Martinez for the left, where Marchisio eventually played all season. Both the strikers that came that season (Quag in the summer, and Matri in the winter) for a combined 33m, were arguably panic buys. And truth be told, Diego and Trezeguet staying wouldn't have hurt us. I don't think we prirotised, and no squad can gel or imbibe a club's philosophy when there are on average 12 new players coming through the doors every season. I don't disagree with lowering the squad's age or wage structure, but that process is gradual, it can't happen overnight. Evolution for me is key. Not revolution. Take away the 3 youth players and you're still on about a staggering 36 players over 3 seasons. Conservatively speaking, that's way too many for a big club.

Marrotta's second season at the club was his best mercato to date.

I'm unsure of whether you're claiming that lowering wages in that squad should have been a gradual process? In Juve's case, it certainly was needed rapidly, I've already explained how they had to fix so many problems created by their predecessors. Diego might have helped the club get more points in that first year but he isn't a player Juve can use, I'm pretty pleased with the sum Juve received now I can look back. I don't think it matters how quickly a squad can gel when you're put in the position of having a squad full of failed transfers, the longer they stuck around the longer it would take to create a new era.

Interestingly, you'll notice the likes of who you mention have had a certain longevity at the club. Despite all the money that we have spent, I can't see any of the players offer us this kind of life span. So you cant really say what it would cost, because the only type of players that will offer you a decade of loyalty today are those who'll come through youth ranks, and they cost nothing till their wages escalate.

Wage being another inflated component in the modern era and seeing the direction our club is choosing to take, i dont think building the new Juve would cost as much as we are more likely to create stars than buy them. And seeing that we spent under 12m for those who are perhaps the most key to our cause, just goes to show that it's not just who you're spending on, but how you're prirotizing those spends. On the other side of that coin, a 30m rated player is not necessarily a bad thing keeping in mind the commercial requirements of a club trying to be more market savvy - I for one, am more than happy if we went out there and got ourselves our version of El Sharaaway. I'd like to ask you though, if you're of the belief that this money we have spent has helped us successfully rebuild the squad to the level you mention or close to it?

If we'd prirotised better, I think that 200m would have a bit more quality to show for it.

I think it's dangerous to continue this without taking net spend into account (which I think might be around the €140m mark).

It's difficult to not focus on individual players that have failed as well, so I can't honestly answer your question. I'm very happy the team is dominant and well on the way to being competitive in Europe, no problems with the mass turnover. Comparing Juve to other teams that have gone through similar squad transformations would suggest they're doing very well with the resources. If I were to expect something extra, it would be that the club should have purchased more younger forwards that (as you said) could be created into big players for the team, the club is still trying to get over Del Piero-Trezeguet, 3-4 years after they last played in the same squad, and 5 years after they played together on a consistent basis. If I had to answer, I'd say I think the club is at the right level, but the squad has gaps that should have been filled.

 

[Cronios]

So the main parts that the Marotta apologist focus upon are:
-We dont have money, its not Marotta's fault, but how come poorer serie A team can find the players we seek and we cant?
-Noone would give the money we have spent on our players, then why are we keep spending such sums to trash players?


There are some hard facts out there, we have been seeking for a Juve material LB/LWB and a finisher at least since 2006, ever since Marotta arrived we were suppossed to focus on quality, rather than quantity.
We are still overspending for squad players that are destined to fail and then we are forced to gift them away.
We are still gathering players for the same spots (CM and SS, which have become our best cover positions, consisting of nearly 1/3 of our roster) and we have yet to replace Trezequet and Zambrotta.
We are still unable to make that leap in quality and instead of saving the cash to buy a better player next year, we spread it around and sometimes even more in 2-3 squad players.
We are repeating the very same mistakes again and again and always there are going to be some apologists will invent new excuses or just repeat the same.

Every year we hope that this year will be an exception, but every august we are regretting for the same mistakes.
Our midfield is well stacked up, our forward line is full of supporting strikers that cannot score more than 15 goals/season.
We do not have a dedicated LB/LWB who can defend like Licht, we do not have one dedicated CB, who can rotate with our starter 3 and we have plenty of competition in the center of our midfield.

Lets see if Marotta will be able to land this time a non free CB, a LB who is able to defend properly and a CF who is scoring with consistency 20/goals/season.
We have all the depth we need, our current squad can win the championship anyway, we can recall many of our youngsters anytime if we need the extra depth.
We only 2-3 starters and we need to sell 2-3 players, thats it, no excuses, no insane demands. Our needs have been the same for the past 3 years, we have now the CL and title appeal, the depth, everything, all we need is those 2-3 players to upgrade our team.
Will they come, or we will start wasting our cash on new Pelusos, Diamantis, etc, sign a free bonera and one of the billion good CM/SS that appear in a good price and call it a day?

In the end of the day it is up to MArotta to prove us right or wrong, the pathetic part is, that no matter how hard he fails, there is always going to be someone who will defend, either because of misplaced loyalty, sheer stupidity or just because he seeks a way to troll us...

 

[Nzoric]

Not this shit again

 

[JuveJay]

Cronios speaking about facts, CMs, SSs and trolling.

Nothing to see here.

 

[Vlad]

There are some hard facts out there, we have been seeking for a Juve material LB/LWB and a finisher at least since 2006, ever since Marotta arrived we were suppossed to focus on quality, rather than quantity.
We are still overspending for squad players that are destined to fail and then we are forced to gift them away.
We are still gathering players for the same spots (CM and SS, which have become our best cover positions, consisting of nearly 1/3 of our roster) and we have yet to replace Trezequet and Zambrotta.

Seriously edit that document you're posting over and over again.
It was always said we focused on quantity in his first year.

 

[ZoSo]

So the main parts that the Marotta apologist focus upon are:
-We dont have money, its not Marotta's fault, but how come poorer serie A team can find the players we seek and we cant?
-Noone would give the money we have spent on our players, then why are we keep spending such sums to trash players?


There are some hard facts out there, we have been seeking for a Juve material LB/LWB and a finisher at least since 2006, ever since Marotta arrived we were suppossed to focus on quality, rather than quantity.
We are still overspending for squad players that are destined to fail and then we are forced to gift them away.
We are still gathering players for the same spots (CM and SS, which have become our best cover positions, consisting of nearly 1/3 of our roster) and we have yet to replace Trezequet and Zambrotta.
We are still unable to make that leap in quality and instead of saving the cash to buy a better player next year, we spread it around and sometimes even more in 2-3 squad players.
We are repeating the very same mistakes again and again and always there are going to be some apologists will invent new excuses or just repeat the same.

Every year we hope that this year will be an exception, but every august we are regretting for the same mistakes.
Our midfield is well stacked up, our forward line is full of supporting strikers that cannot score more than 15 goals/season.
We do not have a dedicated LB/LWB who can defend like Licht, we do not have one dedicated CB, who can rotate with our starter 3 and we have plenty of competition in the center of our midfield.

Lets see if Marotta will be able to land this time a non free CB, a LB who is able to defend properly and a CF who is scoring with consistency 20/goals/season.
We have all the depth we need, our current squad can win the championship anyway, we can recall many of our youngsters anytime if we need the extra depth.
We only 2-3 starters and we need to sell 2-3 players, thats it, no excuses, no insane demands. Our needs have been the same for the past 3 years, we have now the CL and title appeal, the depth, everything, all we need is those 2-3 players to upgrade our team.
Will they come, or we will start wasting our cash on new Pelusos, Diamantis, etc, sign a free bonera and one of the billion good CM/SS that appear in a good price and call it a day?

In the end of the day it is up to MArotta to prove us right or wrong, the pathetic part is, that no matter how hard he fails, there is always going to be someone who will defend, either because of misplaced loyalty, sheer stupidity or just because he seeks a way to troll us...

I agree with everything except I think you are forgetting we signed Llorente. Still need another forward though.

I think he can be judged more harshly at the end up of this mercato if he fails, especially since our market objectives are becoming ever more clear and obvious every transfer window.

 

[Hydde]

Seriously... why you call cronios a troll when most of the this he says is indeed what has been happening.

Im not a MArotta hater... but seeing people call "troll" other members who are posting very debatable arguments, just depress me.

In the end,,,, Marotta succes will lie in bringing a superb strier this mercato.... or setting up Llorente to become THAT striker. If this doesnt happen.... i reslly dont know what can be said to spare him.

I mean, lets forget about number and all those stats for a sec.... Its clear as water that if WE SERIOUSLY want to advance in the CL, we need a prolific striker.

Marotta doesnt need anyhting else. Just do that transfer and call it a day if necesary.

1 30m euros higuain/jovetic, 1 FREE cb and 1 FREE cm

I`LL CALL THAT REALISTIC, do you agree mr. realist?

for me that's better than a 10m backup cb, a 10 m backup cm/amc and a 10m 3rd rate striker.

Fuck not again!!! this is like a deja vu!!!

 

[JuveJay]

Seriously... why you call cronios a troll when most of the this he says is indeed what has been happening.

Im not a MArotta hater... but seeing people call "troll" other members who are posting very debatable arguments, just depress me.

Who called him a troll? I said he was speaking about trolling, which is still ironic.

As was shown earlier, what Cronios has done since the beginning is fill very long posts with commonly debated and reasonable points, then pad them out with irrelevance and most irritating of all, outright lies.

 

[Zacheryah]

Yes :derp:

- - - Updated - - -

Oh, we can spend more on a single player ? Please share how ?