General Religion & Philosophy Discussion Thread (7 Viewers)

Zé Tahir

JhoolayLaaaal!
Moderator
Dec 10, 2004
29,281
No, he just picks and chooses. His opinion is meaningless, yet you say his book is a good place to start.
lol I think you're the one that's picking and choosing as usual. It's unfortunate you don't dive into the teachings of Islam given your interest. Given you're actually a smart dude, if you actually bothered to study the religion you'd walk away with a fresh perspective...and I don't even mean to sound preachy or insinuate that you'd "see the light" type deal.
 

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Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
38,187
lol I think you're the one that's picking and choosing as usual. It's unfortunate you don't dive into the teachings of Islam given your interest. Given you're actually a smart dude, if you actually bothered to study the religion you'd walk away with a fresh perspective...and I don't even mean to sound preachy or insinuate that you'd "see the light" type deal.
If you mean to say I could take something useful from it all, yes, I probably would. But I picked and chose this part because it is incredibly ignorant and homophobic. And somehow I cannot understand how this part survives today.
 

Hist

Founder of Hism
Jan 18, 2009
11,397
Suppose I want to know more about Islam and Islamic culture, what would be a good book to start? Does anyone know a book that's accessible without much prior knowledge - but doesn't simplify complicated matters -, and talks about both the theological foundations as well as cultural & historical developments from a relatively unbiased point of view?

I guess there's not really anything that fully satisfies all criteria, but do you guys know anything at least close to this?
@Fred @Bianconero_Aus @Zé Tahir @Mohad @king Ale
I would go for the fundamental texts of Sunni Islam. These include the earliest surviving version of the prophet's biography Sirat Ibn Hesham, Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim (these are the two main books of hadiths/sayings of the prophet and hold the highest authority in Sunni Islam after the Quran) and the Quran itself. I would recommend starting with the biography first (make sure its the ibn hesham version because later versions select parts from that and ignore pieces that they don't like) and then the Quran (the biography will give you the context in which verses where said) and then finally the hadiths. These are not easy reads and do not include later historical developments after the prophet but they allow you to form your opinion independently of anyone's narrative. You get first hand access to the evidence in a way before a particular author puts it in story form.


If you want something more accessible that incorprates later history and developments there are 2 good overviews, Marshall Hodgson's "The Venture of Islam" and Ira Lapidus' "A History of Islamic Societies".
The latter is one volume and was updated in 2014 with the latest insights and research so it seems better. A friend of mine doing his Phd at Harvard in Islamic studies recommended them (especially the latter). I have it in epub format.
 

Ocelot

Midnight Marauder
Jul 13, 2013
18,943
I would go for the fundamental texts of Sunni Islam. These include the earliest surviving version of the prophet's biography Sirat Ibn Hesham, Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim (these are the two main books of hadiths/sayings of the prophet and hold the highest authority in Sunni Islam after the Quran) and the Quran itself. I would recommend starting with the biography first (make sure its the ibn hesham version because later versions select parts from that and ignore pieces that they don't like) and then the Quran (the biography will give you the context in which verses where said) and then finally the hadiths. These are not easy reads and do not include later historical developments after the prophet but they allow you to form your opinion independently of anyone's narrative. You get first hand access to the evidence in a way before a particular author puts it in story form.


If you want something more accessible that incorprates later history and developments there are 2 good overviews, Marshall Hodgson's "The Venture of Islam" and Ira Lapidus' "A History of Islamic Societies".
The latter is one volume and was updated in 2014 with the latest insights and research so it seems better. A friend of mine doing his Phd at Harvard in Islamic studies recommended them (especially the latter). I have it in epub format.
Thanks, the problem with the original accounts is of course that they are not very accessible, especially with little knowledge about the social and historical context. I'm definitely planning to read the Quaran uncommented at some point.
 

Siamak

╭∩╮( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)╭∩╮
Aug 13, 2013
15,006
Daughter of Italian Politician Reverts To Islam

The daughter of former Idv Franco Barbato converts to radical Islam: "Manuela now is Aysha,
 

Juliano13

Senior Member
May 6, 2012
5,016
@Fred
Countries like Saudi Arabia and Iran, who even have a religious elite that are part of the ruler's closed circle and play a major role in decision making and the formulation of laws.

I'm not defending Qatar here, but I really don't think they can be classed a theocracy.

@X, Sorry. Just saw your post.
Iran and the Vatican are probably the only ones that are officially theocracies, but in reality other countries fit, too. You classify Saudi Arabia as a theocracy yourself, how is Qatar different. It's an absolute monarchy and Sharia law is the main source of legislation. For me that's enough to consider it a theocracy, even if's more lax than in Saudi Arabia.
 

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