Gaetano D'Agostino (11 Viewers)
- Thread starter Fellas
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Not entirely, I think it will help. Our midfield is going to be dynamo, or as Cruello likes to put it "USS Enterprise". I think with this midfield the pressure on our defense will be much less. Look for example, how many times last year the defense sent long balls with high hopes and never found their target and immediately our opposition was coming right back down our throats. It was easier for teams to attack us for two reasons: 1.) We didn't play possession ball and our midfield was non existent at times, which made us easy to defend and 2.) Long balls, most of the time it was just giving the ball back to our opponents when you think of how many failed passing from our defense and crossing was just as bad. These two reasons made it difficult for our defense because it was always put under enormous pressure IMO, and was only able to withstand so much.
Besides, before christmas we were doing great defensively, people here are worried about having attacking winbacks. We have enough offensive capabilities to make most teams piss and shit their pants. We just need better defensive oranisation and I think Ciro will give us that. So to answer your question, with Zebina, chiellini, canna and gross with Buffon yes, I think pretty much most of our problems will be solved. D'ago is going to give us a lot. Sure, I'd like new wingbacks but IMO our priority should be d'ago to be the last piece to our midfield puzzle. That will help a lot. Criscito not coming kinda threw a wrentch in my speculations but if grosso comes that will only help. I have a sneaking suspicion zebina will have a great season if he stays fit. Sorry for all the typos, I'm using my blackberry
Besides, before christmas we were doing great defensively, people here are worried about having attacking winbacks. We have enough offensive capabilities to make most teams piss and shit their pants. We just need better defensive oranisation and I think Ciro will give us that. So to answer your question, with Zebina, chiellini, canna and gross with Buffon yes, I think pretty much most of our problems will be solved. D'ago is going to give us a lot. Sure, I'd like new wingbacks but IMO our priority should be d'ago to be the last piece to our midfield puzzle. That will help a lot. Criscito not coming kinda threw a wrentch in my speculations but if grosso comes that will only help. I have a sneaking suspicion zebina will have a great season if he stays fit. Sorry for all the typos, I'm using my blackberry
Did you always considered him the best serie A, passer or is it just because of his (wondrous/dubious) statistics this year?
With all due respect to the player and your vision/wishes for possession football.
I dont believe we can sustain that formation of yours, without two world class wing-backs!
I adore possession football, its probably the reason i ve became a Juve fan in the first place! Among with the tactical disciplince and efficiency we used to have...
But this squad is incomplete! Our defensive coverage is mediocre and not on par with the rest of our team, or with the previous defense we used to have.
We have to understand that by adding Diego, instead of a DM/CM and taking two defensive wingers out of the equation. Our extremely weak defense is bound to collapse once again!! (if remain unchanged)
They already collapsed once, without Sissoko, despite having two DMs/CMs and 2 defensive wingers to support them. Imagine what happens without this support!
I dont believe that Dago and Camo/Marchisio can offer the defensive support to make that formation viable. And i dont think that our current wing-backs can provide any support or shut down the wings efficiently.
Our defense now will be by far into greater pressure now, that it has been in the previous years, just because of that!!
Make no mistake, they only seemed half-decent, as long as the second defensive line in front of them was able to protect them very efficiently and make up for their incompetence, by sacrificing our offensive options!
We worry too much for our creativity, but remember that our main issue was not to tie the defense with midfield, but the midfield with the attack.
Just because we lacked those offensive options! This is no more an issue!!
Not with Diego/Giovinco around!
And if we consider that our attack managed to be competitive even without their help, i dont expect them to have any problems now! I also have to remind you that we were practically playing with a player less this year. Marchionni was totally useless, both defensively and offensively. Adding a useful player like Camo/Marchisio/Poulsen to his place, in our starting eleven, it will immediately show some great results. We will be playing with eleven players again!!
And Diego is a definite offensive upgrade to old Neddy.
Our creativity and passing is doubled by default! Half of our midfield is already changed for that purpose. Lets not exagerate and overlook our most important issue completely!!
Atm we rather need some defensive coverage, than a second playmaker!
There is practically no need for that!
Without Sissoko in front of our defense, we will be completely overrun from both frontal assaults and our flanks. The new formation radically changes everything we new since now. We will face new issues, not the issues we had up until now.
I dont think that Marchisio, Camo, Tiago, Poulsen and even CZ are all bad passers.
Esp if they are given a non DM role!!
It is not their fault CR forced them to play in a less optimal way!
But they are def. less effective defensively, than Sissoko!!
This have been proved on the field time and time again for the past 3 months.
So is Dago!
From this perspective, Dago adds nothing essential/crucial to our team!
No more options, or tactical versatility.
If we overestimate our defense again, we will endanger to compromise our plans again, just like we did with CR's plans. CR initially opted for a CM (Tiago/Almiron)
and a DM (CZ/Nocerino). But because of our weak defense we couldnt cope and we were forced to apply more defensive support from our midfield.
The 4-3-1-2 without a DM to support the defense is far too offensive for our current material...
Selling Poulsen and investing on Dago could be a fatal mistake.
What happens if we keep conceding easy goals if our wing-backs cant cope??
Without any wingers left, we wont be able to covert into a 4-4-2 (diamond with Diego behind the forwards and Sissoko in front of the weak defense)
Our only choice would be to sacrifice one of Diego/Giovinco, Camo/Tiago Dago/Marchisio for one more DM, besides Sissoko (in a possible 4-2-3-1), that would be CZ, (If fit/available. The rest cannot apply for that job, as they have proved this year, not even Marchisio) cause Poulsen would be in Spain... You can imagine what kind of problems we would face from there
and how many millions would be wasted on the bench...
With Dago instead of Poulsen, the 4-2-3-1 wont be an efficient option either!
We will are taking away only tactical choice that could keep us efficient and competitive. Our team now is more balanced, we make an optimal use of our material and we keep our tactical options open.
The defensive coverage also seems marginally sufficient, esp as long as Sissoko and Chiellini are around!
I would gladly accept Dago as an upgrade to Tiago and use him as a deep playmaker!! That would make perfectly tactical sense! But only if:
-As long as we dont have to sacrifice our future in the process (Giovinco, DC, Marchisio)
-As long as we upgrade both of our fullbacks, with players able to give us the necessary minimum width in the wings and ensure that we wont be flanked or become one dimensional. (Diego and Dago would work on the same parallel and if the opposition crowds the midfield, they will shut us down!
In that case we will be vulnerable in frontal attacks too, as neither of Diego and Dago would hold the ACMs)
Otherwise, i believe that Dago is a luxury we dont need and shouldnt waste any of our very limited funds to get.
In the current selected midfield, Dago would just replace Marchisio's LCM place in our first eleven and offer a slight offensive boost, for a decent defensive nerf!
Ferrara will def field his teammate Camo instead of him in the RCM position.
Dago and Camo are fine offensive options, that would maybe negate our offensive wing-back lapses. But they will def. compromise our already pathetic defense!
PS 1: For the ones familiar with my argumentation or the ones who are just lazy to bother with a text-wall, i ve underline the most important/main arguments! (but everyone is free to join in this discussion, thats why i added a complete perspective)
PS 2 :This post covers many interesting issues and it is not addressed solely to Hustini. The attractive tactic choice he suggest is an issue that has been suggested by others in other threads too and has many interesting implication. Since Dago is the prime candidate and a fine reason to consider this new tactical options, i chose to bring this matter here, as it seem fit in this thread, rather than the tactics and formations thread. Because without Dago, this tactical choice, is not an issue!
PS 3 : Jack please spare me the coming personal insults/mockery-post and please dont derail this interesting/meaningful (hopefully) discussion.
Interesting post, Our priority was a playmaker this summer and we got one and a very good one at that. Canna will provide certain stability but is not really the answer nor is Grosso and nor is Molinaro. Zebina if he stays fit is a very good right back and in my eyes we just need a LB. Dago will complement the diamond formation very well. Diego will be able to stay further up field and receive the ball from a very good passer. You are forgetting we have Marchisio and Sissoko both midfielders will help out our defence a hell of a lot and we really did miss Sissoko at the latter stage of the season when he got injured.
We can offer have enough quality players like Dago, i know!
But i believe that he had in mind a complete team, who could afford to have some mediocre players, for depth! Thats just common sense. Unfortunately, our team/board lacks that! And we are stacked up with mediocre starters Grygera, Molinaro, Legro/finished Canna.
As long as the good depth players are coming at the expense of those starters!
They are a luxury we cannot afford (due to limited resources)
Of course they are!! They always are, as long as we are willing to reach out for them!! The world is full with offers like Santacroce and Andre.
The world has million football players to choose from. And we are wealthy and prestigious enough to attract 80% of them!
But for some lame reason, we bound our selves to some lame restrictions, like young and Italian, proven in serie A, but not expensive, etc...
If we set our priority to found them, we will find them!
Defenders are relatively cheaper than forwards and midfielders, they always have been! If we can find and buy expensive forwards and offensive midfielders like Amauri and Diego, we can certainly find equally good defenders!
I can mention some names, but we will lose the point if these are the optimal solution or not. The point is that we can easily find a huge upgrade to our current starters, using the same ammount of money we are about to spend and did spent on depth players!
But i believe that he had in mind a complete team, who could afford to have some mediocre players, for depth! Thats just common sense. Unfortunately, our team/board lacks that! And we are stacked up with mediocre starters Grygera, Molinaro, Legro/finished Canna.
As long as the good depth players are coming at the expense of those starters!
They are a luxury we cannot afford (due to limited resources)
Of course they are!! They always are, as long as we are willing to reach out for them!! The world is full with offers like Santacroce and Andre.
The world has million football players to choose from. And we are wealthy and prestigious enough to attract 80% of them!
But for some lame reason, we bound our selves to some lame restrictions, like young and Italian, proven in serie A, but not expensive, etc...
If we set our priority to found them, we will find them!
Defenders are relatively cheaper than forwards and midfielders, they always have been! If we can find and buy expensive forwards and offensive midfielders like Amauri and Diego, we can certainly find equally good defenders!
I can mention some names, but we will lose the point if these are the optimal solution or not. The point is that we can easily find a huge upgrade to our current starters, using the same ammount of money we are about to spend and did spent on depth players!
Would be better to name some few, because there are certainly many players cronios but could we afford someone like pepe for example ( Real bought him somthing like 30 millions if I'm not mistaken), not cheap at all ! so, it seems to me that u're somehow wrong when u said that good defenders come cheap.
Even santos who was unknown till the confederations cup is valued at 20 millions !!
Even santos who was unknown till the confederations cup is valued at 20 millions !!
I ve already mentioned two (and they can both come in Dago's price)
I m not saying that they come cheap, as free,
but they are certainly come cheaper than forwards/offensive midfielders!
Although Real is not a valid example, since they dont even represent not even a 1% of what happens in the universal transfer market!
But again, you may compare how much they paid for their top forwards and top midfielders and how much they paid for their top defenders.
Defenders are generally less expensive than forwards, mostly because they produce less spectacle, but they are the ones who win championships!
Cannavaro for example has always been less expensive than Trezequet/DP, but that doesnt mean that he WASnt as good as them, at his job...
Juventus atm are not trying to keep a balance between effectiveness and spectacle. We spend everything we got to buy offensive players and little to nothing for solid defensive players.
I can understand the reasoning behind it. Fans are attracted by spectacle and they produce more income!
But we must not overlook our effectiveness and competitiveness!
We have invested enough to have a wide choice of first rate forwards,
for both starter and depth positions.
We have done the same with our midfield! But we are still to upgrade our mediocre defense.
We dont only lack first rate depth there, but we lack first rate starters!
The choice was not finincial, we had plenty occassions of bagging upgrades with our available funds and we could have many more, if we were really interested to find more.
The choice was strategical, during the past 3 years, i think that i have pointed out enough in these forums. IMO, it was always undeniable and completely evident!
I ve explained the reasons 2-3 years ago and up until this day, our board has proved me true!
But i still hope they prove wrong, ASAP!!
(and they can both come in Dago's price)I m not saying that they come cheap, as free,
but they are certainly come cheaper than forwards/offensive midfielders!
Although Real is not a valid example, since they dont even represent not even a 1% of what happens in the universal transfer market!
But again, you may compare how much they paid for their top forwards and top midfielders and how much they paid for their top defenders.
Defenders are generally less expensive than forwards, mostly because they produce less spectacle, but they are the ones who win championships!
Cannavaro for example has always been less expensive than Trezequet/DP, but that doesnt mean that he WASnt as good as them, at his job...
Juventus atm are not trying to keep a balance between effectiveness and spectacle. We spend everything we got to buy offensive players and little to nothing for solid defensive players.
I can understand the reasoning behind it. Fans are attracted by spectacle and they produce more income!
But we must not overlook our effectiveness and competitiveness!
We have invested enough to have a wide choice of first rate forwards,
for both starter and depth positions.
We have done the same with our midfield! But we are still to upgrade our mediocre defense.
We dont only lack first rate depth there, but we lack first rate starters!
The choice was not finincial, we had plenty occassions of bagging upgrades with our available funds and we could have many more, if we were really interested to find more.
The choice was strategical, during the past 3 years, i think that i have pointed out enough in these forums. IMO, it was always undeniable and completely evident!
I ve explained the reasons 2-3 years ago and up until this day, our board has proved me true!
But i still hope they prove wrong, ASAP!!
Hey troll, whats your main account?? Mods, i request to check him out please for double account! I ve noticed that your appear after such posts, when some certain members wouldnt want to debate with me properly, but they would love to! It easy to use such an account and make such cheap comments...
From all the points i ve made, you insist on finding smth that can be debatable and you are trying to cancel the bulk of all those points with this pathetic rhetoric stratagem!
And you always have a tendency to show misspell my nick (intentionally??), however you show some uncharacteristic familiarity!
As i said, the reason i dont want to mention even more names, is because trolls like you will appear and try to divert attention from the topic, debating if they classify as worthy upgrades or not and in what degree.
Which is pointless, because we are not the one who will pick up the candidates and negotiate their transfer!
This is not the time or the place for that, we must first evaluate the need for this certain priority and then look into details.
Our board has intentionally failed again and again to classify our priorities
(intentionally or because of uncompetitiveness)
We might not do nothing for that either, but lets not applause this behavior
and lets not ignore this great issue, that has a great influence on our team
and affects all of our players and tactics, every time every time we field them!
From all the points i ve made, you insist on finding smth that can be debatable and you are trying to cancel the bulk of all those points with this pathetic rhetoric stratagem!
And you always have a tendency to show misspell my nick (intentionally??), however you show some uncharacteristic familiarity!
As i said, the reason i dont want to mention even more names, is because trolls like you will appear and try to divert attention from the topic, debating if they classify as worthy upgrades or not and in what degree.
Which is pointless, because we are not the one who will pick up the candidates and negotiate their transfer!
This is not the time or the place for that, we must first evaluate the need for this certain priority and then look into details.
Our board has intentionally failed again and again to classify our priorities
(intentionally or because of uncompetitiveness)
We might not do nothing for that either, but lets not applause this behavior
and lets not ignore this great issue, that has a great influence on our team
and affects all of our players and tactics, every time every time we field them!
Everything for you dear doctor.
I checked him. He's from Singapore and he does share his IP address with other members from Singapore but that's nothing strange because almost everyone in Singapore has the same IP address (it's strange. I noticed that in other forums).
I'm convinced that he's not a double account.
I checked him. He's from Singapore and he does share his IP address with other members from Singapore but that's nothing strange because almost everyone in Singapore has the same IP address (it's strange. I noticed that in other forums).
I'm convinced that he's not a double account.
Thank you my dearest mod
I didnt expect for a report, a check would be enough and your word for that would be more than enough!
Just out of curiosity,have you any idea, (aprox. like 30%),
how much percentage of the forum's members have dynamic IPs? ( just to have an idea, of how competent the IP check can be, in a such multi-national forum)
Now, back on topic
I didnt expect for a report, a check would be enough and your word for that would be more than enough!
Just out of curiosity,have you any idea, (aprox. like 30%),
how much percentage of the forum's members have dynamic IPs? ( just to have an idea, of how competent the IP check can be, in a such multi-national forum)
Now, back on topic
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