Future Coach (16 Viewers)
- Thread starter Dostoevsky
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No, but sometimes you have reasonable minimum expectations you want fulfilled, and when the said manager fulfills those minimum expectations and nothing more, then i would say that manager has done nothing special.
Juve with the squad they had, the minimum expectation was for them to get a top four place. Ranieri did just that, i wouldn't say he did anything special at Juve.
You don't need to follow the Serie A to know that 7 of Juves players left. But Juve had a really strong squad then, that even after those 7 players left, Juve still had a squad that was more than capable of getting a top four position. They did not need a Capello or a Ferguson to qualify for the CL with the squad they had at the time.
As for Chiellini, i don't agree with you. Chiellini was regarded as a promising fullback at the time. At least thats how i rated him. Injuries to Juve's Centerbacks and Criscito's poor form forced Ranieri to play him as an emergency fullback and he just excelled from there.
DP was in his thirties, but he was still a top player and was still one of the best in the Serie A at the time. Trezeguet was still a deadly striker and one of the best in Europe at the time too. Camo was still performing and was also one of the best(actually the best) wingers in the Serie A at the time. Nedved while not being as good as the other three, still wasn't really past it yet. Almiron and Tiago both came to Juve after having really good seasons with their club, Buffon was still the best keeper in the world. Zanetti was still playing really well and there were voices calling for him to be recalled to the Italian NT.
Roma did not have a better squad than you, that it just taking it too far. Compare them player by player, you will find that only their fullbacks and De Rossi would have made that Juve squad. Nobody else would have. Was Taddei better than Camo, was Mancini better than Nedved? Was Totti better than DP? Was Vucinic better than Trez? Doni and Buffon? Mexes and Chiellini?
You guys had a good squad that was more than capable of being in the top four, i would say it would have been a disaster had you not qualified for the CL at that season. It would have needed a Ciro Ferrara not to qualify.
Prandelli is not doing a good job this season, that much is obvious to everyone i would imagine. But you are downplaying his achievment in his first few years at Fiorentina imo.
Juve with the squad they had, the minimum expectation was for them to get a top four place. Ranieri did just that, i wouldn't say he did anything special at Juve.
You don't need to follow the Serie A to know that 7 of Juves players left. But Juve had a really strong squad then, that even after those 7 players left, Juve still had a squad that was more than capable of getting a top four position. They did not need a Capello or a Ferguson to qualify for the CL with the squad they had at the time.
As for Chiellini, i don't agree with you. Chiellini was regarded as a promising fullback at the time. At least thats how i rated him. Injuries to Juve's Centerbacks and Criscito's poor form forced Ranieri to play him as an emergency fullback and he just excelled from there.
DP was in his thirties, but he was still a top player and was still one of the best in the Serie A at the time. Trezeguet was still a deadly striker and one of the best in Europe at the time too. Camo was still performing and was also one of the best(actually the best) wingers in the Serie A at the time. Nedved while not being as good as the other three, still wasn't really past it yet. Almiron and Tiago both came to Juve after having really good seasons with their club, Buffon was still the best keeper in the world. Zanetti was still playing really well and there were voices calling for him to be recalled to the Italian NT.
Roma did not have a better squad than you, that it just taking it too far. Compare them player by player, you will find that only their fullbacks and De Rossi would have made that Juve squad. Nobody else would have. Was Taddei better than Camo, was Mancini better than Nedved? Was Totti better than DP? Was Vucinic better than Trez? Doni and Buffon? Mexes and Chiellini?
You guys had a good squad that was more than capable of being in the top four, i would say it would have been a disaster had you not qualified for the CL at that season. It would have needed a Ciro Ferrara not to qualify.
Prandelli is not doing a good job this season, that much is obvious to everyone i would imagine. But you are downplaying his achievment in his first few years at Fiorentina imo.
Interesting post, so you think that coaches feel limited by pressure put onto them by the club? So what about Ferrara, who came in and promised attacking football, bought a fantasista and changed to a 4-3-1-2 to accomodate him? We played some good stuff to start with, look at the games up until post-Genoa and the late Trez equaliser. Then teams sussed us out and saw we had a soft underbelly.
Alen, don't you think getting Capello back in and attempting to get the team back to the top level the good old fashioned way, THEN trying something a bit different afterwards is preferential? I just see too much risk factor with certain foreign coaches and their styles, call me paranoid, we seem to be going down that Inter 90's route.
On the topic of squad strength and achievement, even when Juve were winning the league most seasons under Capello and Lippi people always looked at the Milan and Inter squads and said they were better, in terms of depth, but we always made up for that with our superior 'Spirito Juve' and winning mentality. That has all but gone for now. Or perhaps it was the mythical 'Moggi system'
Alen, don't you think getting Capello back in and attempting to get the team back to the top level the good old fashioned way, THEN trying something a bit different afterwards is preferential? I just see too much risk factor with certain foreign coaches and their styles, call me paranoid, we seem to be going down that Inter 90's route.
On the topic of squad strength and achievement, even when Juve were winning the league most seasons under Capello and Lippi people always looked at the Milan and Inter squads and said they were better, in terms of depth, but we always made up for that with our superior 'Spirito Juve' and winning mentality. That has all but gone for now. Or perhaps it was the mythical 'Moggi system'
That's what Ferrara "promised", but it was anything but attacking football. Either he started out with that philosophy at first and had to change it as the season went along, or else it was just a complete disaster that failed in epic proportion. I think it was a combination of both. That notion is confirmed in how Ciro immediately threw away the attacking 4-2-3-1 system with Seba that really looked good. He gave it up for more central midfielders instead of attacking players, relying only on Diego in midfield to provide the creativity.
My biggest criteria for a manager is someone who is willing to stay at least three years. We are in desperate need of consistency.
Just about bringing in someone fresh, a big thing we need to consider is how the manager will fit in the with culture of the club and how much he could deal with the culture in Italy.
I guess that is one of the reasons that tips someone like Benitez over Blanc (on plain view I guess, it will need more analysis) but dealing with the Italian media, fans other teams' managers presidents etc. It is completely different than anywhere else. Even someone like Mourinho is struggling. So its important to have someone who knows when to attack or be more diplomatic and its harder than it looks.
The other is that I want someone who could bring back our never die mentality and attitude on the pitch. Someone who is aligned with the mentality of old.
There are a few progressive coaches in Serie A. You mentioned Prandelli before but I think Mazzarri proved year after year that he is one of them and Allegri is getting there.
Something new is good and refreshing. Domenech's name before has prompted this response. Getting someone from outside has a great deal of risk and if we don't get the right one than we will be going in the wrong direction in no time because we will have someone who doesn't understand how to deal with Serie A or the team. And that will affect results everywhere.
Lets see if they could find the proven, yet committed name we need.
Just about bringing in someone fresh, a big thing we need to consider is how the manager will fit in the with culture of the club and how much he could deal with the culture in Italy.
I guess that is one of the reasons that tips someone like Benitez over Blanc (on plain view I guess, it will need more analysis) but dealing with the Italian media, fans other teams' managers presidents etc. It is completely different than anywhere else. Even someone like Mourinho is struggling. So its important to have someone who knows when to attack or be more diplomatic and its harder than it looks.
The other is that I want someone who could bring back our never die mentality and attitude on the pitch. Someone who is aligned with the mentality of old.
There are a few progressive coaches in Serie A. You mentioned Prandelli before but I think Mazzarri proved year after year that he is one of them and Allegri is getting there.
Something new is good and refreshing. Domenech's name before has prompted this response. Getting someone from outside has a great deal of risk and if we don't get the right one than we will be going in the wrong direction in no time because we will have someone who doesn't understand how to deal with Serie A or the team. And that will affect results everywhere.
Lets see if they could find the proven, yet committed name we need.
You can't be that dumb, in last 5 years he achieved one CL final (I'm talking about 2007, you probably could notice that if you tried to actually read not blabber off topic all the time) and was close to winning league with Pool last season. Now would you be satisfied and call it a great achievement if you were Liverpool fan? In Italy he would be sacked in summer of 2008 if not faster.
Domenech reached the final in 2006, do you want him too? I believe a final in WC (and almost a victory) is even bigger achievement than 2 CL finals in 6 years and one worthy trophy.
Domenech reached the final in 2006, do you want him too? I believe a final in WC (and almost a victory) is even bigger achievement than 2 CL finals in 6 years and one worthy trophy.
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