Forecast for 2008/2009 (4 Viewers)

[Bozi]

well it looks like vinman's constant ranting and general idiocy is catching on so maybe if alen keeps repeating himself then fools will start to realise that it is gonna take a few years for juve to get back to where they were financially pre-farceopoli

 

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[Salvatore]

On paper i think our squad is still worse then inter and now milan's, however if roma acquire julio baptista and reyes then i believe we'll be on a par with them, and we're superior to fiorentina and the rest. But the Serie A isn't played on paper and i think we'll end up third or fourth. In Champions league i'll be happy if we get past the first knockout round, and be shocked if we reach the semis. By the way does anyone know what happened to the multimedia section?

I wouldn't say that Milans squad is better than ours at all. Equal-ish, Id say.

I reckon it will be impossible to stop Inter though, the rest I think we have a pretty good hold on.

Ill only be happy if we win every tournament possible.

 

[Snoop]

I don't see how you can be bothered to keep repeating this stuff.

If folk haven't grasped this already, they aren't going to.

actually we aren't that poor like everyone is claiming. think about it this way, if we could get rid of one of Tiago or Almiron, and specially the first, and if you add the money you are paying for Poulsen, then you could get Ronaldinho without any harm. see? There is no point of defending this board 24/7 just for the sake of it. We aren't that pathetic enough to not having the ability to pay for Ronaldinho's wages. And you all are forgetting the money we will receive after signing a player like him.

This was just an example how we sign shitty players, while the others get quality players.

 

[Alen]

Snoop, if you said Xabi Alonso i'd say you have a point.
But sime guys here are actually blaming our board for not signing Ronaldinho.

I've said it many times, but here it is again :

When we were in serie B Milan started the negotiations about Ronaldinho. When we played Mantova, Milan, in front of full San Siro invited Ronaldinho to play on some charity match.
Ronaldinho's brother and agent is the agent of Ricardo Oliveira. If you remember Milan overpayed for Oliviera and Dinho's brother got a fair share of the money.
In other words Berlusconi was doing everything for 2 years to get Ronaldinho.

You can't sign Ronaldinho over night. There are hundreds of clauses in his contract and most of them require long negotiations.
Milan were doing that exactly in the past 24 months. While we were struggling with money and struggling in serie B everyone in Milan, including the Brasilian legend Leonardo worked on Dinho's transfer.

Then the summer of 2008 came. Ronaldinho could have used that famous article 17 and buy out his contract. His brother threatened to do that and Barcelona had to let him go, wanted or not. But Ronaldinho and Barca found a gentlemens agreement and Barcelona accepted to let him go.

Teams did ask for Ronaldinho. Chelsea did it, Inter did it. There were contacts between various clubs and his brother but all the time they didn't miss the chance to mention how Milan are no1 favorites to get Ronaldinho.

Two offers came. Manchester City offered 32m eur to Barca and ~10m eur wages. Milan offered 22m eur and 6.5m eur for wages.
What happened at the end ?
Dinho's strong desire to play for Milan, together with his friends and collegues from the NT, Kaka, Emerson, Dida, Pato was decisive.

 

[JCK]

Wasn't it the free Flamini that preferred Milan over us because of the wages?

 

[Snoop]

Snoop, if you said Xabi Alonso i'd say you have a point.
But sime guys here are actually blaming our board for not signing Ronaldinho.

I've said it many times, but here it is again :

When we were in serie B Milan started the negotiations about Ronaldinho. When we played Mantova, Milan, in front of full San Siro invited Ronaldinho to play on some charity match.
Ronaldinho's brother and agent is the agent of Ricardo Oliveira. If you remember Milan overpayed for Oliviera and Dinho's brother got a fair share of the money.
In other words Berlusconi was doing everything for 2 years to get Ronaldinho.

You can't sign Ronaldinho over night. There are hundreds of clauses in his contract and most of them require long negotiations.
Milan were doing that exactly in the past 24 months. While we were struggling with money and struggling in serie B everyone in Milan, including the Brasilian legend Leonardo worked on Dinho's transfer.

Then the summer of 2008 came. Ronaldinho could have used that famous article 17 and buy out his contract. His brother threatened to do that and Barcelona had to let him go, wanted or not. But Ronaldinho and Barca found a gentlemens agreement and Barcelona accepted to let him go.

Teams did ask for Ronaldinho. Chelsea did it, Inter did it. There were contacts between various clubs and his brother but all the time they didn't miss the chance to mention how Milan are no1 favorites to get Ronaldinho.

Two offers came. Manchester City offered 32m eur to Barca and ~10m eur wages. Milan offered 22m eur and 6.5m eur for wages.
What happened at the end ?
Dinho's strong desire to play for Milan, together with his friends and collegues from the NT, Kaka, Emerson, Dida, Pato was decisive.

That's very good. Milan worked hard to get him and they succeeded. That's all I am saying, what are we doing in the transfer market? do we try to sign big names? do we have plans? Or we just sign players for free, and offer them ridiculous wages?

This is nothing personal against the current board, I used to criticize those "Transfer Gurus" Moggi at the time everyone were praising them to heaven. We get olivera that big promising youngster, on the other hand, Milan signs Kaka for similar amount. I just find it funny we wasted our cash on Poulsen, while Milan got Ronaldinho for an acceptable deal!

 

[Red]

actually we aren't that poor like everyone is claiming. think about it this way, if we could get rid of one of Tiago or Almiron, and specially the first, and if you add the money you are paying for Poulsen, then you could get Ronaldinho without any harm. see? There is no point of defending this board 24/7 just for the sake of it. We aren't that pathetic enough to not having the ability to pay for Ronaldinho's wages. And you all are forgetting the money we will receive after signing a player like him.

This was just an example how we sign shitty players, while the others get quality players.

I don't defend the Board all the time, but I do believe that many people are unduly negative about them.

If we sell Tiago and Almiron and qualify for the CL, I think there is every chance we would try to add to the squad, though it may not happen until January.

 

[Bjerknes]

that is a very sensible explanation for why you are never going to be a sports director/transferguru.

you would "buy" a great star team on "bosman / free transfer" and then get us relegated because we are in deep debt and can't pay their salaries ...

this is really childs logic !

then pay that astronomic number of money .... oh wait ... since you have no clue about money you surely don't have any money you could take to pay ronaldinho ... so who should pay this sum for ronaldinho if you can't ?


did you ever read a story about people that got rich from "nothing" ?

you did not, because then you knew that most of the wealthy guys are that rich because they do not throw around with their money ... some could even say they are greedy and won't give a cent to much for anything ... that is the way business is made and not paying astronomic fees and wages ...

If we can spend 30 million Euros on bench players, we can afford some pretty high wages of a great player.

For fuck's sake, does anybody here want to improve our squad or what? I don't even care about Ronaldinho... I'd pay a lot of money for a player that deserves a high wage and would do wonders for us. That's what I'm trying to point out.

And by the way, 99% of your post was just useless and you could have just said you have to be stingy with your money instead of talking nonsense.

You are wrong here Andy. Wages, especially in Italy, present around 70% of the whole deal. As Wenger said, it's all about the wages today and sooner rather than later there will come a time when transfer fees will not exist anymore and players will be signed only for wages.

Juve are allready paying +100m eur a year only for the wages of our players. We have a budget and the greatest part of it goes for the salaries. If we sign new players, don't sell the players we have and pay the new guys 10m eur for their salaries it means that together with the taxes we'll be paying 20m eur more than the previous year. So we pay 20m eur more from our budget which means that we'll have 20m eur less for transfers next year.

Milan were in big shit due to this. They had old players under contract, they couldn't get rid of them and it was hurting them on the mercato in the last 2 summers. This summer they got rid of Cafu, Serginho and Ronaldo and only this way they saved ~20m eur they've been paying for their wages. These money were enough to pay for Ronaldinho's and Zambrotta's wages.

It works much differently than some of you guys think.
Teams like Roma and Fiorentina will go bankrupt in no time if they start giving the wages Juve are giving to their players. That's why they are forced to sell a player each summer and they can't buy the better players who ask for 3-4m eur per year. Juve don't have to sell their stars and we can offer the better players the wages they want, but still we can't buy world stars and offer them crazy wages, something Milan and Inter can easily allow themselves.

Face it people. Yes, we're Juve bla bla bla, resistance is futile bla bla, but you conviniently forget something.
2006/07 - Inter and Milan got ~100m eur for serie A tv rights, we got shit. Inter and Milan got at least as much from playing CL, the tv rights from there etc. Sponsors were fighting to have their names on Milan's or Inter's jersey while we lost our main sponsors.
That's more than 200m eur difference only for the last 2 years. Milan and Inter didn't have to sell all their players, they already had a big squad, so now they have players like Oliveira, Gilardino, Suazo .... players they can sell for 10-15m eur without suffering a bit. We don't have such players to sell, earn millions and play a big role on the mercato.

Good points, but we can sell off various players to allow us to bring in a big name player and successfully pay his wages. However, we do have various problems attracting certain players and of course hammering out a deal for such stars would be somewhat impossible with our management. Unless, that is, we have Bettega come in and secure the lad like he did with David.

I totally understand your valid arguments, but like I've said we have wasted so much money on players thus far that it does show we can afford at least a few players with high wage demands.

 

[Bjerknes]

Snoop, if you said Xabi Alonso i'd say you have a point.
But sime guys here are actually blaming our board for not signing Ronaldinho.

That's not what I'm doing. Ronaldinho is just an example.

 

[Nenz]

If we can spend 30 million Euros on bench players, we can afford some pretty high wages of a great player.

For fuck's sake, does anybody here want to improve our squad or what? I don't even care about Ronaldinho... I'd pay a lot of money for a player that deserves a high wage and would do wonders for us. That's what I'm trying to point out.

you wouldn't say our squad has improved, andy?

Not that i'm saying its the case at Juve, but i'd rather spread our funds evenly throughout the squad rather than blowing it all on some huge name player that could still turn out to be a flop.
This transfer season we needed to work on two areas of our squad: midfield and back. We couldn't afford to spend huge wages on only one star and then buy average players for the rest of our focuses. All players are assets and some of them will be out of form or injure themselves this year. Its just managing your risk.

 

[Alen]

That's not what I'm doing. Ronaldinho is just an example.

Lol, i know you aren't, but i can show you two posts from senior members who were actually shocked because Milan signed Ronaldinho and we didn't.

 

[Boudz]

I'll be proud of the boys if we finish second in Serie A and at least the Quarter finals in CL. As long as we finish above Inter then I'm fine.
I'm just being realistic.

 

[Slow_Roll]

I think Flamini is a good example. Milan gave him a big wage and payed nothing. We signed Poulsen for 10 mill and gave him a smaller wage. If someone here thinks Poulsen is better than Flamini, be my guest but in this case I'd say we screwed up. As for Ronaldinho or some other big name player, I don't give a shit about the name in a players back (as long as it's not a former interista) if he performs. As for the argument about us needing to reinforce our midfield and backline thus not being able to buy big names, that's just crap. We've spent 5 mill on our backline and about 10 in midfield, and surprise 25 in attack. I'm all for Amauri but I still think the biggest fuck up our current management is/was doing is prioritising. We have 2 of the best scorers in seria a + Iaquinta, who's in my mind pretty darn good, yet we buy a striker when Molinaro is a disaster and we have no coverage for cb (Knezevic isn't quite lighting the world on fire). Had we kept Palladino brought Flamini instead of Poulsen(who might turn out good), bought Vargas and Zapata, sold Molinaro, I would've been much more impressed than i'm currently.

 

[Alen]

I think Flamini is a good example. Milan gave him a big wage and payed nothing.

Had we brought Flamini ........

I'm Galliani and i'm offering €5.6 million per season to Falmini.
You're Juve's director, what do you do in this case ?

 

[Slow_Roll]

Save the money we spent on signing Poulsen and give it to Flamini + I really think had we offered like 4,5 he would've came here given that we're in CL and he'd be a sure starter (something he's not in Milan).

 

[Ahmed]

Flamini is hardly miles ahead of Poulsen...

 

[Alen]

Save the money we spent on signing Poulsen and give it to Flamini + I really think had we offered like 4,5 he would've came here given that we're in CL and he'd be a sure starter (something he's not in Milan).

Milan signed Flamini before the season ended, when they were 4th in serie A. Everyone thought Milan were going to play CL when Flamini signed for them.
So, i doubt he'd accept an offer of 4.5m eur when Milan offered him 5.6. We clearly had to offer him more than 5.6m in order to get him.
Do you think we should have offered him more than 5.6m ?

 

[Slow_Roll]

Milan signed Flamini before the season ended, when they were 4th in serie A. Everyone thought Milan were going to play CL when Flamini signed for them.
So, i doubt he'd accept an offer of 4.5m eur when Milan offered him 5.6. We clearly had to offer him more than 5.6m in order to get him.
Do you think we should have offered him more than 5.6m ?

No and I really shouldn't speak too much about this as I haven't seen enough of him to compare him to Flamini. I thought Flamini signed after the season ended, but all this is beside my point. Our board signed Poulsen (he might be WC) after clearly failing to sign the few they had preferred, this is something I find strange given that we had 25 mill for Amauri who wasn't that needed. This gives some sort of indication that they didn't think our defence or midfield was in that bad a shape but our attack needed a superstar signing, even if we had 2 of the leagues best scorers.

 

[Lion]

Save the money we spent on signing Poulsen and give it to Flamini + I really think had we offered like 4,5 he would've came here given that we're in CL and he'd be a sure starter (something he's not in Milan).

Do you think Flamini is worth paying 5 million a year. Meaning we are paying him more than Chiellini, DP, Trez, Camo, Zanetti, and Sissoko. And almost as much as Buffon.

Do you think he's worth that much.

 

[Alen]

No and I really shouldn't speak too much about this as I haven't seen enough of him to compare him to Flamini. I thought Flamini signed after the season ended, but all this is beside my point. Our board signed Poulsen (he might be WC) after clearly failing to sign the few they had preferred, this is something I find strange given that we had 25 mill for Amauri who wasn't that needed. This gives some sort of indication that they didn't think our defence or midfield was in that bad a shape but our attack needed a superstar signing, even if we had 2 of the leagues best scorers.

No, forget Poulsen. I also prefered Flamini to Poulsen.

But the problem with Flamini was obvious. We wanted him, we tried to sign him, but the money Milan offered were almost impossible to match. If we gave him 5.6m or more he would cost us much more than Poulsen if you do the count but that's not as important as the fact that he'd become our highest payed player and i don't think Buffon, Del Piero, Trez or Camoranesi would have accepted that without asking for a pay raise themselves.
We would never go fo Poulsen if Milan didn't pop up with such a crazy wage offer. Such a shame.
But we really couldn't do much.