Explosions in London ! (23 Viewers)
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So do I
Wasn't picking on your post in particular...just the general tone of the thread, and I'm not angry...seen it all before...life sucks and I'm used to it now...don't get angry anymore...was it confusious who said "you have to learn to live with that which you cannot change"
If Blair was bombing British people, tens of thousands dissapeared overnight never to be seen again, mass genocide was taking place, blah blah blah...we woudn't need outisde help, (although it would be welcome)there's been revolution in this country virtually all its existance..as we say as Celtic fans...if you know the history...and the Christian forces...didn't know they were Christain forces, thought they were British, Americans, etc...it seems to be you who is comparing this to some sort of Crusade...and the whole idea of democracy is that you chose your own destiny...if you pick Islam, so be it
Who is attempting to kill all muslims...it's simply not so...do you really belief this? if so please explain how you possibly come to this conclusion...if the 'christians' as you chose to call us, wanted to kill as many muslims as possible, there wouldn't be may left today
What utter nonsense...there has never been a day without protest against war in this country...Blair almost lost his job over this one issue at the election...and perhaps it's those with religion who should take a good look at themselves about who is following blindly...(I don't have any religion)
Sounds good to me but eutopia will never happen..
Wasn't picking on your post in particular...just the general tone of the thread, and I'm not angry...seen it all before...life sucks and I'm used to it now...don't get angry anymore...was it confusious who said "you have to learn to live with that which you cannot change"
If Blair was bombing British people, tens of thousands dissapeared overnight never to be seen again, mass genocide was taking place, blah blah blah...we woudn't need outisde help, (although it would be welcome)there's been revolution in this country virtually all its existance..as we say as Celtic fans...if you know the history...and the Christian forces...didn't know they were Christain forces, thought they were British, Americans, etc...it seems to be you who is comparing this to some sort of Crusade...and the whole idea of democracy is that you chose your own destiny...if you pick Islam, so be it
Who is attempting to kill all muslims...it's simply not so...do you really belief this? if so please explain how you possibly come to this conclusion...if the 'christians' as you chose to call us, wanted to kill as many muslims as possible, there wouldn't be may left today
What utter nonsense...there has never been a day without protest against war in this country...Blair almost lost his job over this one issue at the election...and perhaps it's those with religion who should take a good look at themselves about who is following blindly...(I don't have any religion)
Sounds good to me but eutopia will never happen..
I must have blinked...there's a united Ireland then
Scotland and Wales got devolved Parliament's with virtual home rule without firing a shot.
Northern Ireland only has the political set up it has today as a result of peacetalks...or did the gun and the bomb win then?
If the IRA, PIRA and all the rest were still bombing and killing in the kind of numbers they were in the 70's, 80's nothing would have changed
Remember, I'm a Celtic fan from an Irish background who knows the story of Ireland as well as anyone on the outside
Don't remember if I wrote something on this or not and what exactly others wrote, well.. I wasn't surprised of that attack as it was about to happen. I "blame" the UK (and rest of the west) because of our actions in the middle-east / around the world after the WWII *. Not that promises were kept before that. I see it's basically about politics instead of some random actions during some random war.
* this does not justify any terrorist attack!
About western soldiers killing civilians - I honor your faith in humanity (no sarcasm!). I just don't have that much faith in humans. I know I snipped off that succeeding column, but I just don't believe every crime will be punished.
A man to a man is like a wolf (or how it is said in english)
Maybe that's enough of my friday night mindflow.
* this does not justify any terrorist attack!
About western soldiers killing civilians - I honor your faith in humanity (no sarcasm!). I just don't have that much faith in humans. I know I snipped off that succeeding column, but I just don't believe every crime will be punished.
A man to a man is like a wolf (or how it is said in english)
Maybe that's enough of my friday night mindflow.
I have no doubt some bad things happened out there which have went unpunished, but if they are caught they face justice, that's the difference...will the superiors who pull the strings of the homicide killers punish then?...more likey stick a medal on them for doing a good job of intentionally murdering complete innocents.
If a British soldier carries out a war crime I want him hung drawn and quartered, and if he undertook this act under orders I would want the complete chain of command put up against a wall and shot...not in my name...simple.
Homicide killing is un-human
...and as for the political side of your post...sh*t happens to most countries...the Germans bombed London, Coventry, etc...we bombed Berlin, Hamburg...now we get on together...we can't keep looking to the past and saying things like - 300 years ago we were let down by so and so...let's bomb them because of things that happened then.
...and please people... don't come on saying... 'but all war is un-human-what's the difference?'...we know this argument inside out...terrorism is not war...it's much more personal than that... war is when country fights country...terrorism is armed combatant against innocent victim...big difference:down:
First of all,I hate to do it this with you now, that's because the London incident just happened,and I know your feelings..
First thing you should know,I am not a muslim,here is a proof
This is me
I never picked Islam,and never will.I was born Chrisitian, and will die christian..I was trying to show the way they are thinking,since I lived my whole life in ME,so I think I know some about them..
I never used the word Crusade,but yeah, USA and Britian for them are Christian countries..ok forget about that dicatator thing.. just tell me would you welcome Muslim countries to invade your country,because you have nuclear weapons so that you are dangerous for the world,maybe they don't trust Britian like they don't trust USA,since they used the weapons in Japan..
like I told you,kids in palestine and some other Islam countries,are growing up with the dream to become a martyr,suicide bomber,terorist,you name it..
to defend their countries,so will you kill them all, because others will come and have the same dreams,you can't stop that..
like you and I see,the protests were not enough,but you could go on and protest till they go down.trust me,people can do whatever they want.. that's why I blamed british,for not letting Blair down..
note:don't ever mix me with other posters,I would never ever use the "deserve" word for death,but I used "responsible" word..
Conclusion: My point is not to Blame any side,but I want to show you by blaming otherside,and let the hate grow,doesn't work..
Bush,Blair,Saddam,Bin laden everyone who support war,against terorist or anyone else,is Evil..
First thing you should know,I am not a muslim,here is a proof
This is me
I never picked Islam,and never will.I was born Chrisitian, and will die christian..I was trying to show the way they are thinking,since I lived my whole life in ME,so I think I know some about them..
I never used the word Crusade,but yeah, USA and Britian for them are Christian countries..ok forget about that dicatator thing.. just tell me would you welcome Muslim countries to invade your country,because you have nuclear weapons so that you are dangerous for the world,maybe they don't trust Britian like they don't trust USA,since they used the weapons in Japan..
like I told you,kids in palestine and some other Islam countries,are growing up with the dream to become a martyr,suicide bomber,terorist,you name it..
to defend their countries,so will you kill them all, because others will come and have the same dreams,you can't stop that..
like you and I see,the protests were not enough,but you could go on and protest till they go down.trust me,people can do whatever they want.. that's why I blamed british,for not letting Blair down..
note:don't ever mix me with other posters,I would never ever use the "deserve" word for death,but I used "responsible" word..
Conclusion: My point is not to Blame any side,but I want to show you by blaming otherside,and let the hate grow,doesn't work..
Bush,Blair,Saddam,Bin laden everyone who support war,against terorist or anyone else,is Evil..
For some comic relief on this heavy topic...
One of my favorite stories from a former British coworker was when he first came to work in California about 15 years ago. Walking into a bank to open an account, he encountered a sign that said, "Open your IRA accounts here!" His reaction was one of complete shock -- in disbelief that U.S. banking businesses could so openly court the financial accounts of terror organizations.
Of course, later that week he learned that an IRA, in the U.S., is an Individual Retirement Account...
One of my favorite stories from a former British coworker was when he first came to work in California about 15 years ago. Walking into a bank to open an account, he encountered a sign that said, "Open your IRA accounts here!" His reaction was one of complete shock -- in disbelief that U.S. banking businesses could so openly court the financial accounts of terror organizations.
Of course, later that week he learned that an IRA, in the U.S., is an Individual Retirement Account...
Indeed. Of course the IRA could never defeat the british without turning to politics. Sinn Fein, Gerry Adams, same shit, same IRA.
IRA are in government. IRA are in Education. IRA walk free from jail. IRA are not convicted nor imprisoned. IRA have agreements with the British, as long as the bombs stay out of London huh? Sure we dont negotiate with terrorists yet we will sit down with Gerry Adams and Martin McGuiness. We will talk with them for years about decommissioning their weapons yet will always remain armed to the teeth. We will put Martin McGuiness to the head of Education in Northern Ireland (How fvcking discusting). We will go to Iraq to bring down Saddam yet we will negotiate with Gerry Adams. We will go to afganistan to bring Bin Laden to justice yet we wont go to Ireland to put away the Omagh bombers. 32 dead in Omagh. Thats one bomb, one town, one conviction. Lets see how many 'terrorists' we will put away for London. Lets compare how many Muslim terrorists we will bring to justice to how many Irish terrorists we have brought to justice.
The IRA have a great deal of gain from their campaign. Hardly failure by any stretch of the imagination.
Hardly appropriate to talk about this now though.
IRA are in government. IRA are in Education. IRA walk free from jail. IRA are not convicted nor imprisoned. IRA have agreements with the British, as long as the bombs stay out of London huh? Sure we dont negotiate with terrorists yet we will sit down with Gerry Adams and Martin McGuiness. We will talk with them for years about decommissioning their weapons yet will always remain armed to the teeth. We will put Martin McGuiness to the head of Education in Northern Ireland (How fvcking discusting). We will go to Iraq to bring down Saddam yet we will negotiate with Gerry Adams. We will go to afganistan to bring Bin Laden to justice yet we wont go to Ireland to put away the Omagh bombers. 32 dead in Omagh. Thats one bomb, one town, one conviction. Lets see how many 'terrorists' we will put away for London. Lets compare how many Muslim terrorists we will bring to justice to how many Irish terrorists we have brought to justice.
The IRA have a great deal of gain from their campaign. Hardly failure by any stretch of the imagination.
Hardly appropriate to talk about this now though.
what bullshit... Paisley is responsible for the collapse of virtually every peace treaty ever discussed.
He is the most stubborn nastiest prick of the lot... who has only ever seen his own viewpoint and agenda ... He is a horrible cunt with no interest in peace whatsoever.
A man who sees no issue with saying he wants to discuss peace but refused on numerous occassions to be involved in talks involving adams or McGuiness... fvcking ridiculous... Oh yes we want talks but not with the opposition present... he wants everything his own way and refuses to take into account any of the other sides view or refuses to accept that his party have committed horrendous crimes themselves...
Dont get me wrong... they're all cunts, but the way people highlight adams et al as to blame for everything and paisley as an angel is absolute bollocks... they should all be shot
Anyway... this isnt the place for this discussion... another time
He is the most stubborn nastiest prick of the lot... who has only ever seen his own viewpoint and agenda ... He is a horrible cunt with no interest in peace whatsoever.
A man who sees no issue with saying he wants to discuss peace but refused on numerous occassions to be involved in talks involving adams or McGuiness... fvcking ridiculous... Oh yes we want talks but not with the opposition present... he wants everything his own way and refuses to take into account any of the other sides view or refuses to accept that his party have committed horrendous crimes themselves...
Dont get me wrong... they're all cunts, but the way people highlight adams et al as to blame for everything and paisley as an angel is absolute bollocks... they should all be shot
Anyway... this isnt the place for this discussion... another time
Oh Please.. Stop Putting the Blame on the USA, about the Palestinian-Israeli case. Read the History and you'll find that Palestinians THEMSELVES sold their 50% of their Own Lands and Houses to Israeli's back in 48 before Britain Occupied the Israeli-Palestinian Lands and Supported Israeli's Financially.
It's true USA are helping the Israeli and giving them everything they need to continue their "Power System" In the Middle-East not only Palestain. And I actually don't blame the US for Supporting Israeli's because thats how their "Politics" works and Nobody could change It. (Not even Bush himself).
Remmber when USA helped Bin-Laden and gave him Everything he needed to Fight the Russians in Afghanistan 20years ago, and When the US Supported Iraq to Over-take Kuwait in {One Night}, Same with Iran. Thats How the US "Politics Way" goes. Look now at Bin-Landen, Americans are trying to grab him from the mountains between Kandahar road to Maziara Sarif. But hey, US were helping that man 20years ago, what happen now?
Look at Saddam, He's in Prison now, But hey, he was a good Friend with Bush(Father). So my point is and I repeat it Again, this is how the World's Strongest Country works, " Day on you, Day on us ".
You guys Spoting your sights on the Israeli-Palestinian Situation way too much, To be honest I don't really care, and I don't think It's one of the reasons Terror Exists.
Anyhow Finally, I hope the Americans would change the "Regime System" In Iraq and Turn it into Democratic Country. And Pleaaaaaaaaaaaaaase don't come again telling me about the PETROL thing. It's really something you guys should know that the Americans are not there for Petrol.
I'am sure that you guys know that Saddam himself used to give the Americans Oil for FREE. gimme a break! They are there for changing the whole System in the Middle East and Golf, Iraq was their first Option. Coming up Next "Syria and Iran".
It's true USA are helping the Israeli and giving them everything they need to continue their "Power System" In the Middle-East not only Palestain. And I actually don't blame the US for Supporting Israeli's because thats how their "Politics" works and Nobody could change It. (Not even Bush himself).
Remmber when USA helped Bin-Laden and gave him Everything he needed to Fight the Russians in Afghanistan 20years ago, and When the US Supported Iraq to Over-take Kuwait in {One Night}, Same with Iran. Thats How the US "Politics Way" goes. Look now at Bin-Landen, Americans are trying to grab him from the mountains between Kandahar road to Maziara Sarif. But hey, US were helping that man 20years ago, what happen now?
Look at Saddam, He's in Prison now, But hey, he was a good Friend with Bush(Father). So my point is and I repeat it Again, this is how the World's Strongest Country works, " Day on you, Day on us ".
You guys Spoting your sights on the Israeli-Palestinian Situation way too much, To be honest I don't really care, and I don't think It's one of the reasons Terror Exists.
Anyhow Finally, I hope the Americans would change the "Regime System" In Iraq and Turn it into Democratic Country. And Pleaaaaaaaaaaaaaase don't come again telling me about the PETROL thing. It's really something you guys should know that the Americans are not there for Petrol.
I'am sure that you guys know that Saddam himself used to give the Americans Oil for FREE. gimme a break! They are there for changing the whole System in the Middle East and Golf, Iraq was their first Option. Coming up Next "Syria and Iran".
Never said he was innocent. A nasty prick sure, a bigot bastard sure but he isnt a murderer and he isnt a terrorist. Certainly he can take alot of blame for the talks failures but you arent considering his reasons. He has always said he will sit and talk with Sinn Fein when they decomission. He dosent negotiate with Terrorists. Something he is completely right in doing imo. The IRA need to deliever on their promises. But again, we're talking with terrorists. Why have one policy on something and an entirely different one on something similar. The IRA or Sinn Fein have no place in London.
Indeed.
Indeed.
The theme of my post was achieving goals of terrorism, ...simple question...did the armed struggle part of the IRA's quest for a united Ireland succeed? No...the IRA have not achieved there aim...there is no united Ireland...not even on the horizon
Looking at it another way, they have joined a British Government Parliament, hold British Ministerial Posts, accepted the armed struggle will not win and is over, and agreed to 'talk' about there goal of a united Ireland...the armed struggle failed, the terrorism, failed
True, the IRA terrorists did walk free from jail, just as the INLA, UDA etc did...sad, gastly even, but seen as the price of doing business
...and although Adams and McGuinnes have been accused of membership of the IRA they are not IRA MP's, but, as you point out, Sinn Fein... maybe a mute point, maybe POLITICAL WING of the IRA, but not IRA...maybe Sinn Fein and the IRA are the same sh*t, but it's now an IRA who accept terrorism wont get them a united Ireland...or am I wrong?
Nelson Mandela became President of South Africa, but it wasn't terrorism that did it.
Many just and valid points in your post about freeing terrorists, but the statement the IRA didn't win is correct...just a shame we had to bare all those deaths before they realised it
++ [ originally posted by snoop ] ++
First of all,I hate to do it this with you now, that's because the London incident just happened,and I know your feelings..
First thing you should know,I am not a muslim,here is a proof
This is me
I never picked Islam,and never will.I was born Chrisitian, and will die christian..I was trying to show the way they are thinking,since I lived my whole life in ME,so I think I know some about them..
I never used the word Crusade,but yeah, USA and Britian for them are Christian countries..ok forget about that dicatator thing.. just tell me would you welcome Muslim countries to invade your country,because you have nuclear weapons so that you are dangerous for the world,maybe they don't trust Britian like they don't trust USA,since they used the weapons in Japan..
First of all,I hate to do it this with you now, that's because the London incident just happened,and I know your feelings..
First thing you should know,I am not a muslim,here is a proof
This is me
I never picked Islam,and never will.I was born Chrisitian, and will die christian..I was trying to show the way they are thinking,since I lived my whole life in ME,so I think I know some about them..
I never used the word Crusade,but yeah, USA and Britian for them are Christian countries..ok forget about that dicatator thing.. just tell me would you welcome Muslim countries to invade your country,because you have nuclear weapons so that you are dangerous for the world,maybe they don't trust Britian like they don't trust USA,since they used the weapons in Japan..
If they strap a bomb to their bodies do you think I wouldn't attempt to stop them? Homicide bombers are legitimate targets...kids playing football in the street aren't...Muslim, Christian, Jew, Secular, they are innocent...why would I want to kill them?
I know that you are not promoting terrorism, but if you read my posts you'll see I never mentioned Islam, Muslims, any thing religious what so ever...only terrorism
...and as I also mentioned, my words are not written in anger...I don't get angry anymore...pointless