Explosions in London ! (16 Viewers)

[Arttk]

I tihnk most of the members here has mis-interpreted what Dian wanted to say all along.
I think what he meant to say that today's tragedy is inevitable and instead looking at what the terrorists did and placing the blame on them, one should also look at WHY they did sucha thing. Without a cause there wouldn't be an effect and what happen today along with other terrorist activities are merely a result of something.

So I think what Dian wants to express is that instead of blaming everything on the evil terrorist, we should also look at the root of all these problems,(Bush and the countries involved). The terrorist are really trying to fight back, without the push, there would be no shove.

While most of us are now just thinking about "oh those damn terrorist, we gotta catch them, bla bla bla", we should instead look at the cause of all the problem and get rid of the cause of the problem. Just concentrating on "the shove" will only result in more and more.

And sadly, I think Blair and allies were prepared for such attacks the moment they decided to signup on this "war on freedom".

And no I am not islamic,(asian) and I feel sympathy for all those killed today and NO i am not sympathic about the terrorists, I am just merely trying to look at this from a neutral and non bias(i try at least) perspective.

 

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[Fecal Matter]

You live in hackney or some other shithole in London, you spend your whole fvcking life trying to get out of there, trying to get a decent job and trying to look after your family. You send your kids to school there where the classes are over 50% foreign. The schools there change your kids timetables to suit those other kids. You dont say fvck all to any muslim who pisses you off, kicks you out of his shop, takes your job or tells you what to do in your own country, because thats racist. Then you get the bus to go to your shitty job to so your family dont starve to death and a british muslim whos education you paid for, fucking blows you away.

Such is life.

Well done though, you just Blair a free ticket and made life hell for every muslim in London.

 

[Tom]

thats well fucking said imo

 

[Bjerknes]

++ [ originally posted by Arttk ] ++


So I think what Dian wants to express is that instead of blaming everything on the evil terrorist, we should also look at the root of all these problems,(Bush and the countries involved). The terrorist are really trying to fight back, without the push, there would be no shove.

I'm sorry, but Al Qaeda and other Muslim extremists were around way before Bush or Blair took office.

 

[Arttk]

And i believe the Clinton times were quite peaceful other than one or two incident. Instead of the Annual bomb fest we witness now.

 

[Bjerknes]

++ [ originally posted by Fecal Matter ] ++


Well done though, you just Blair a free ticket and made life hell for every muslim in London.

And that's what these anti-everybody Muslim extremist sympathizers cannot get into their little brain. They say America or Britain is the actual cause of all the problems in the world, yet with terrorists attacks like this, they are basically shitting on themselves. If all these Al-Qaeda sympathizers would realize they are actually causing themselves more grief by killing more innocent people, perhaps we wouldn't have to go to great lengths to stop these terrorists from taking innocent lives.

Great post btw.

 

[Martin]

++ [ originally posted by Andy ] ++


I'm sorry, but Al Qaeda and other Muslim extremists were around way before Bush or Blair took office.

It's not just Bush and Blair, Andy, it's a systematic, consistent foreign policy which has been around for a century of time. There have been variations and while Bush jr seems especially blood thirsty, American foreign policy hasn't changed much over years because the people who actually decide it remain the same (or at least strongly influence who their successors will be) no matter who's in office.

As long as America is the world's only superpower, in fact as long as America is a power, this won't change. And the only reason everyone is talking about America is because it's the biggest and most powerful, other countries are no more moral themselves.

All of this for one reason. Power. Terrorists want power too, so they do the only thing they can do to earn "respect".

 

[swag]

++ [ originally posted by Arttk ] ++
I think what he meant to say that today's tragedy is inevitable

But it's not. It's no more inevitable than me taking a knife to the eyeball of my boss at work. It's not like people don't have a choice and have no free will in the matter.

And instead looking at what the terrorists did and placing the blame on them, one should also look at WHY they did sucha thing.

Everyone asks "why" after a murder of a child, or the murder of some nice old guy who lived up the street. Sometimes it's a little more obvious because it's over $20 and the killer is a crack head. Other times they send in psychologists to dissect their brains to come up with answers. The truth is that "why" can be a fruitless pursuit in a lot of cases involving one person's murder of another person.

A couple of kids shoot up other kids all over Columbine High School. Do we blame society? We could find ways to intervene, but you still have to hold the murderers 100% fully accountable for their actions. There's no "the devil made me do it" cop out.

Without a cause there wouldn't be an effect and what happen today along with other terrorist activities are merely a result of something.

But as I mention above, not all murders have a motive.

So I think what Dian wants to express is that instead of blaming everything on the evil terrorist, we should also look at the root of all these problems

I cannot imagine a situation where you could honestly place any fault on Bush or Blair for the murder of some bloke who was just riding the bus to work that day to earn meager pay for a sh*tty job. That gives the murderer some license to kill. And that murder has the choice to either kill or not... and take responsibility for their actions.

While most of us are now just thinking about "oh those damn terrorist, we gotta catch them, bla bla bla", we should instead look at the cause of all the problem and get rid of the cause of the problem. Just concentrating on "the shove" will only result in more and more.

I definitely appreciate the motivation you have here for open dialog and learning. I'm all for that. And that's not to say that there are things the U.S. or the U.K. could be doing to address the root cause of the problem. But you also have to hold anyone responsible for such acts to the full accountability of their actions.

But these are not rational people we're talking about here. These are people who are enamored with death, a cult of death and destruction, and can't wait to bed down with their 72 virgins. How the heck is anyone supposed to have a constructive dialog with that? You can't. So trying to rationalize cause and effect in a civil fashion is folly... a dead end.

 

[Dan]

the will to power.

 

[Martin]

++ [ originally posted by swag ] ++
But these are not rational people we're talking about here. These are people who are enamored with death, a cult of death and destruction, and can't wait to bed down with their 72 virgins. How the heck is anyone supposed to have a constructive dialog with that? You can't. So trying to rationalize cause and effect in a civil fashion is folly... a dead end.

That's right. And whether or not for instance the Middle East was a region in crisis there could still be Islamic terrorists (or terrorists operating any other flag for that matter). It's just that people suffering makes it all the most likely that a very few of them are willing to go very far for a "payback". Hell, there is no better example than Beslan.

 

[Arttk]

++ [ originally posted by swag ] ++


But it's not. It's no more inevitable than me taking a knife to the eyeball of my boss at work. It's not like people don't have a choice and have no free will in the matter.

Everyone asks "why" after a murder of a child, or the murder of some nice old guy who lived up the street. Sometimes it's a little more obvious because it's over $20 and the killer is a crack head. Other times they send in psychologists to dissect their brains to come up with answers. The truth is that "why" can be a fruitless pursuit in a lot of cases involving one person's murder of another person.

Well in that case of course it wouldn't make any sense to try to see any logic from actions that springs from no logic at all.

But then there IS an actual reason, infact many reasons (even though for such reasons i wouldn't really care, but hey, these are extemeists) for these terrorist actions. Difference in philsophy, religion, ideas, and then you have the invasion (sorry I do see it as that) of Iraq that creats an illusion to the middle east that the west is "invading". I mean all of these are actual reasons that does exsists, and not some bogus logic within a phsychopath.

But then Martin is right, as long as U.S. is the super power, the extremist in the middle east will act like this, and for the purpose of trying to stop the foreign influence. Except maybe when Hilary comes in as president, then we might have a more peaceful world than the yipee kayay texas attitude Bush exhibits.

And about how you said that these people are irrational and can't talk to them. I can say confidently that 99% of the people think that they are, and then nobody tries to talk to them or try to resolve things peacefully.

 

[Fecal Matter]

sad.

 

[Slagathor]

++ [ originally posted by Dian ] ++
Martin,


So you mean that your leaders aint doing the same shit to you?

Thanks for the laughter..

... I never said it was ok for them to blow buses up in England, im saying that they have themselves to blame. You don't always get away with killing people, and this is an example of that. Sometimes the people you have killed has relatives who will tro to kill you back, and sometimes the country you have bombed has people surviving it who will hate you for the rest of their lifes and try to kill you.

The truth is that the ignorant individuals responsible for terrorist attacks are so deeply disturbed that they will FIND a motive. Regardless of whichever war the UK has taken part in.

These people hate the Western world so much, they would have attacked anyway.

London is one of my favourite European cities and this breaks my heart. Good luck to those present in the British capital. Be careful.

 

[swag]

There have always been people who have respect, and are worthy of respect -- and people who don't have it nor deserve it. Some people admire Michelangelo's David while others would be the first to smash its arm off. Some people respectfully observe the giant coastal redwoods up the coast from here, and others carve their initials in them. I don't expect that to change.

Over the years in this forum, I've posted enough of my criticisms on American self-interested policies and death squads this nation has deployed and supported. But people wanted to take down the WTC while Clinton was in office, and they obviously planned the 9/11 attacks while Clinton was in office. I don't expect much of any difference should Hillary take the helm. I don't think we can give anyone credit for any rational level of thought the way we might think. (Which is unfortunate, because I think Bush is a complete @%$hole.)

While not every political change agent has to take the Gandhi route (as if political change is really the goal here), this kind of revel in destructiveness is a supreme act of narcissism. Pure and simple. It's as self-centered as you can get.

 

[Dian]

++ [ originally posted by Vinman ] ++
And now to Dian.....

You are an UNGRATEFUL BASTARD !!!!!

The coalition ridden you of Saddam- the man who mercilessly gassed your people, gave you free elections (where Kurds were voted in ), gave you your IDENTITY back - which Saddam had taken away for those many years

Hell, if it wasnt for this coalition, you'd STILL be sucking Saddams cock

You just made it personal...

First off, you lil ***** ass Yankee, if you'd ever say something like that about my people in real life I'd rip your ass apart.

I don't have to be thankfull for shit, neither does my people. The only reason that your *****-ass country helped mine was because YOU needed help from the Kurds, if you really wanted to help us you would have done something after Halabja 88.

Don't you ever talk like that to me again, I'm not going to say your imature and try to keep myself calm even though you're acting like a ****ing 3 year old, I'm going to say this instead,

**** you, **** your country and **** having respect for it. You little *****, I swear these kids get to much air behind a computerscreen.


Oh, and I don't suck Saddams dick, I don't swing that way.

*****.

 

[Dan]

*****, and **** you ******* ****, **** why dont you ***** **** stuff your **** ******* straight to *****.

****!


edit: **** *******!

 

[Dan]

Dian, you will earn alot more respect here if you make a arguement which is earnest and not resorting to swearing and derogatory language to get your point across.

Just saying man.

oh im now 5555. Who is 6666?

 

[Dian]

Dan,

If you read my earlier posts you'd get it.. hopefully

But this b!tch Vinman came from nowhere talking sh!t about my people, I don't have to make good arguements to the comment he made. He would beg not to get his ass kicked if I caught him in real life, he ain't even worth my swearing.

 

[Slagathor]

++ [ originally posted by Dan ] ++
oh im now 5555. Who is 6666?

Congrats chap. Jolly well done

 

[swag]

++ [ originally posted by Dan ] ++
*****, and **** you ******* ****, **** why dont you ***** **** stuff your **** ******* straight to *****.

****!


edit: **** *******!

:LOL: