Euro 2004: Italy - Denmark (Group C) (2 Viewers)

[Eaglesnake_1]

++ [ originally posted by nina ] ++

And by your criteria you are comparing the NT careers of Baggio, Johann and DP?! How dare you??? Tell me one single game where DP single-handedly took the NT to some kind of win or success??? And I'm not just talking about scoring the decieve goal, but giving the whole team some wings ... N.E.V.E.R.!

Nick is right, DP is a choker, he can't even lead Juve. Sure, he does well against the small teams, but I have yet to see his extra-ordinary, magical in-put against the big teams, because it's there where it counts, since those are the most important games.

But anyway, lets not just blame DP. Italy, IMO, at the moment doesn't have a player that would have soo much carisma and balls to pull behind the rest of them and lead them to success. Totti could be one, but his ego is just too big. Cassano is too young.

Who said im comparing Del Piero Baggio and Cruyff?????
Read again. I just was making a comment about (IMO) the criteria Nick is using to judge Dp and applying it to sacred mounsters like Cruyff and il codino. Is not the same...

 

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[Azzurri7]

++ [ originally posted by IncuboRossonero ] ++


Feels?? Pippo was snubbed because of form. Whats there to feel..he pratically was the pillar in qualificiations...I don't think he has to prove his worth.
Cassano is not Del Piero and I never said he was...but he comes off the bench ..he "ain't going back on"..the way he plays.

By the way Juve symbol? Even if I we assume Pippo was fit and just snubbed by Trap. you are suggesting that DP was selected in front of him?? SEE THE FOOTBALL TERM: POSITIONS.

I didn't mension nothing about Pipp's Position Neither Dp's Position.. i meant the players whom were selected by Trap , and Btw it's not Pippo wasn't fit or something , it's just trap didn't choose him , and if your gonna tell me about this surgery , as i remmber he declared that he delayed this surgery just to come to portugal... and i think when Cassano is gonna come in , Italy's A$$ is gonna get kicked Out of the EC...

PLus if you wanna start talking about Dp's bad matches with the Azzurri , don't let me start talking about milan players Like Maldini , i really like him and am a big fan of him , But he Was SUPPOSED to mark that KOREAN player in the WC2002... See , so it's not always Dp's messin up...

 

[IncuboRossonero]

++ [ originally posted by Don Bes ] ++
the best thing to do with Incubo when he talks about football is ignore him. it makes him THINK that he has won and you dont lose valuable time. :thumb:

To add on ..the best thing to Do when Don Bes posts ... about anything is ignore him...it makes him think that he is in ....REAL LIFE...where nobody listens....TOUCHE Pest??

 

[IncuboRossonero]

++ [ originally posted by azzurri7 ] ++
PLus if you wanna start talking about Dp's bad matches with the Azzurri , don't let me start talking about milan players Like Maldini , i really like him and am a big fan of him , But he Was SUPPOSED to mark that KOREAN player in the WC2002... See , so it's not always Dp's messin up...

Seriously I WANT YOU TO START...

Tell Me HOW you are comparing a player who played on the National Team as a starter since 18 years of age and managed to lead the Italian defence into the finals at 26 and gave his blood to that team is judged on one play. Del Piero has been named in the same breath as Baggio, Baresi and Maldini when he arrived on the National Team...his contribution to the National in tournaments does not match 5% of what the others gave.
Your last statement in which you be-littled Maldini and compared him to Del Piero's failure in the NT based on one Cross made me realize you know sweet fvck all about soccer.

This I have to hear.....

waiting...

 

[IncuboRossonero]

++ [ originally posted by azzurri7 ] ++


I didn't mension nothing about Pipp's Position Neither Dp's Position.. i meant the players whom were selected by Trap , and Btw it's not Pippo wasn't fit or something , it's just trap didn't choose him , and if your gonna tell me about this surgery , as i remmber he declared that he delayed this surgery just to come to portugal... and i think when Cassano is gonna come in , Italy's A$$ is gonna get kicked Out of the EC...

PLus if you wanna start talking about Dp's bad matches with the Azzurri , don't let me start talking about milan players Like Maldini , i really like him and am a big fan of him , But he Was SUPPOSED to mark that KOREAN player in the WC2002... See , so it's not always Dp's messin up...

Based on this post alone you shouldn't even be allowed to post on soccer anymore.

 

[IncuboRossonero]

++ [ originally posted by azzurri7 ] ++


I didn't mension nothing about Pipp's Position Neither Dp's Position.. i meant the players whom were selected by Trap , and Btw it's not Pippo wasn't fit or something , it's just trap didn't choose him , and if your gonna tell me about this surgery , as i remmber he declared that he delayed this surgery just to come to portugal... and i think when Cassano is gonna come in , Italy's A$$ is gonna get kicked Out of the EC...

Pippo had not played one game for Milan since the surgery..how was Trap. going to select him?? His first game after injury would have been for the National..so your theory like the rest of your posts makes no sense as usual.

Unless you redeem yourself on that dumbest post in the history of posts don't waste my time...you have me confused for the plastic fans.

 

[Azzurri7]

Incubo : Platic Fan ha?? thats why your replying then !

Your the Most Stupid (with all my respect to you) i didn't Compar Maldini To Del piero Dumb boy !...how can THAT BE COMPARED>??
damnnnn ! I just talked about the mistake he did , cuz you were talkin about Dp's bad matches in Euro2000....

Seee ya Mate , too Busy 4 ya !

 

[Stu]

People, this thread is for talking about Italy's Euro 2004 opener against Denmark, not about Del Piero and whether he's a choker or not. If the latter is what you want to talk about, please go elsewhere.

Thanks.

 

[nina]

++ [ originally posted by Eaglesnake_1 ] ++
Who said im comparing Del Piero Baggio and Cruyff?????
Read again. I just was making a comment about (IMO) the criteria Nick is using to judge Dp and applying it to sacred mounsters like Cruyff and il codino. Is not the same...

Nick:
A choker gets the TITLE "choker" NOT from not performing at all but from being unable to bring it up a level or shining when the pressure is on.

You:
Nick, its all right if you dont like DP in the national team, but your statements about "Choker" are way unfair. By your criteria, then, Roberto Baggio was a choker, and of course, Johann Cruiff was a superchoker....

Now, Nick set up the criteria, you were the one who classified or am I wrong? Noone who saw what Baggio and Cruyff did would ever ever ever put them under such criteria. It was all your doing. They, unlike some player in question here, did perform when they were under pressure. And if the choker/non-choker criteria was applied to DP it was because he was considered one of the best and as such should show more.

 

[denco]

++ [ originally posted by nina ] ++

And by your criteria you are comparing the NT careers of Baggio, Johann and DP?! How dare you??? Tell me one single game where DP single-handedly took the NT to some kind of win or success??? And I'm not just talking about scoring the decieve goal, but giving the whole team some wings ... N.E.V.E.R.!

Okay by your own criteria, what did Italy or Holland win when Cruyff and Baggio supposedly took them single-handedly to wherever?

Its a fallacy to say Baggio took Italy to the wc finals in 94, its more accurate to say his goals did it cos his overall play in that tournament if the truth be told was average

Italy's best player was in fact the other baggio, but its true that Baggio has done far more than Dp on the international stage for Italy but they won nothing thru out

In 1994 Romario and Stoichkov did the same thing but I never read they are the best ever , in fact Romario even won the wc with his heroics whil Stoichkov won the golden boot

Nick , I read somewhere you said Totti has had a better wc than Dp has , which wc are u referring to? Cos by my reckoning he failed in 2002

the fact that you score tons of goals in big tournaments does not mean you are a superstar ...ask Salenko of Russia

Dp has been a big disappointment in big matches to say the least and he certainly has had more chances than his previous record warrants but you cannot be bringing up his name everytime a Milan player is omitted in the Nt

Why are you not more bothered that Camo is in the starting lineup?
This is the biggest problem i think you have in Italian football which is probably more than any other country, you seem to put club before country

Gatusso has had a marvellous season or 2 even with Milan but Zanetti and Perrotta have done very well, thou I personally think Pirlo should play ahead of Zanetti (as he is a dog), but you probably want Gatusso in there

As for Cassano, I think he is way overrated on here, he is good but he is not great

I keep on reading that Dp chokes or plays badly in big games but Romas big games this season against Milan , Cassano and Totti were very poor so Dp does not have the copyright on choking or maybe he does

As for the game, well, I read somewhere that Jorgensen might not play and coupled with Gravesen , that is a huge loss for Denmark

 

[aressandro10]

i hope italy will get a good kick in the teeth against denmark so that will concetrate more and in the end win the damn tournament..

 

[Dragon]

I have a feeling Vieri will destroy the Euro Cup

but I dont really want to say much about it because Ill jinx it

 

[baggio]

You know what? Group C is highly underrated. I think Denmark and Sweden are high performance teams. And Italy's got their job cut out for them.

 

[Slagathor]

Yes I know. All attention is going to Group D (and to some extent rightfully so) but C is tough too.

 

[IncuboRossonero]

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++

Italy's best player was in fact the other baggio, but its true that Baggio has done far more than Dp on the international stage for Italy but they won nothing thru out

Dino?? Maybe mid-fielder but over-all...
Denco: a little walk down memory lane: the Captain was injured in Game 2 vs. Norway and only returned in the Final..a 26 year old defender led what was called the tightest D in the Azzuri's history MINUS their captain. That same player was second in line for the Golden Ball that season...I'm REALLY surprised you put Dino Baggio over Maldini in WC 94....actually shocked.

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
Nick , I read somewhere you said Totti has had a better wc than Dp has , which wc are u referring to? Cos by my reckoning he failed in 2002

YES ... the combination with Vieri alone did more than DP's lone goal. Yes he did not play..yes Trap. as usual was illogical in selections. However, Del Piero has not yet had one tournament to which he lived up to his hype. Totti much less in the spotlight than DP surpassed DP in world cup/euro performance.

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
Dp has been a big disappointment in big matches to say the least and he certainly has had more chances than his previous record warrants but you cannot be bringing up his name everytime a Milan player is omitted in the Nt

You know what..for my own reasons I would BRING DP because I have seen him in games where I didn't believe he was human...look back I always maintained ON HIS GAME he is more effective than Nedved. I also WISH as an Italian he would finally step it up. Besides there is no Italian Milan player in DP's position WHO was robbed because of him...you missed my arguement or twisted it because of my pro-Milan stance in the past.
No player has been forgiven for mistakes more than DP in the Nation...no player.

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
Why are you not more bothered that Camo is in the starting lineup?

I have a problem with Camo being on the ITALIAN National team..but that is another issue.

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
This is the biggest problem i think you have in Italian football which is probably more than any other country, you seem to put club before country

Denco every four to five posts I made it clear that I wished DP to shine....so you are gloriously mistaken. Actually I have accused many posters here of doing just that because they see Juve, Milan, Lazio, Rome before seeing the Blue Shirt....

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
Gatusso has had a marvellous season or 2 even with Milan but Zanetti and Perrotta have done very well, thou I personally think Pirlo should play ahead of Zanetti (as he is a dog), but you probably want Gatusso in there

Not really...but if Pirlo not starting cannot be justified by Trap. no matter what "formation theory" he comes up with.

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
I keep on reading that Dp chokes or plays badly in big games but Romas big games this season against Milan , Cassano and Totti were very poor so Dp does not have the copyright on choking or maybe he does

Again they are not hailed as the next Baggio's as DP was. However, that probably has to with the fact that Del Piero is a Juve player. (the hype)

 

[Eaglesnake_1]

I dont really like much the way Trap has guided our NT this last years...but looking at the formation he plans to use in this euro 2004, i feel he is making a very balanced and offensive team, with enough choices to maintain his strengh in case somebody injures or someone dont perform and need to go to the bench...Camo-fiore, perrota-gatusso, delpiero-cassano , pirlo-zanetti, there arent many teams with a real good double choice in different positions.
IMO the only real menace for Italy are France and Nedved boys...

 

[Juve_Kosova]

PPL when the azzurri plays, plzzz forget about the clubs, PLZZ!! Forza Azzurri!!!

 

[Azzurri7]

Lets Hope we can win No matter who scores No matter what , but just that ITALY win '!

 

[Juve_Kosova]

++ [ originally posted by IncuboRossonero ] ++
All this said...as an Italian I hope Alex is the top scorer if it means Italy is going to win.

DUDE u dont have to lie... u, LIKE all other milan fan, hope that alex dosent even score a goal, and u probebly hope for him to get kill'd or somethin..!


Forza Azzurri... FFS!

i just hope we win this cup, no matter who the scores, but its a shame that its not everyone hoping that..!

 

[Stu]

++ [ originally posted by IncuboRossonero ] ++

YES ... the combination with Vieri alone did more than DP's lone goal. Yes he did not play..yes Trap. as usual was illogical in selections. However, Del Piero has not yet had one tournament to which he lived up to his hype. Totti much less in the spotlight than DP surpassed DP in world cup/euro performance.

How the fvck was DP supposed to live up to his hype in 02 when he played all of 90 minutes? And imo Totti's WC2002 was far from satisfactory, but does he get bashed like Alex does? No, of course not.