Egypt: from 2011 demonstrations to today (11 Viewers)

Tomice

Senior Member
Mar 25, 2009
2,981
I'm not really sure what Turk's been saying but I find it odd that he's mocking Jewish belief based on the Torah because as Muslims we believe in the Bible and the Torah. In fact Jews & Christians are referred to as "People of the Book". We believe their contents and the way they're interpreted have been altered but that's a different story.
:tup:

Trust me, I don't take anything he says as an indication of muslim thinking. not everyone's at least. The Torah and the Quran actually have alot of similarities a share a lot of views on more then a few issues.

The problem here is when pepole take those books and alter thier meanings in order to justify thier agenda. I'm not a religious person myself, actually pretty far from it but whenever I read the bible i find myself asking how can some pepole take it to such a different direction then what seems intented by the book while trying to interpet those ideas to fit some other purpose. I'm sure it happens in the muslim world as well as in ours.

If those books were followed without bias, religion might have been a much more appealing notion to many pepole
 

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Zé Tahir

JhoolayLaaaal!
Moderator
Dec 10, 2004
29,281
:tup:

Trust me, I don't take anything he says as an indication of muslim thinking. not everyone's at least. The Torah and the Quran actually have alot of similarities a share a lot of views on more then a few issues.

The problem here is when pepole take those books and alter their meanings in order to justify thier agenda. I'm not a religious person myself, actually pretty far from it but whenever I read the bible i find myself asking how can some pepole take it to such a different direction then what seems intented by the book while trying to interpet those ideas to fit some other porpuse. I'm sure it happens in the muslim world as well as in ours.

If those books were followed without bias, religion might have been a much more appealing notion to many pepole
:tup:
I dont troll, it's not how I roll.
Your previous post explains it all but it's shocking how little you know of Ahmadiyyat if you associate it with said sects.
 

PhRoZeN

Livin with Mediocre
Mar 29, 2006
15,841
:tup:


Your previous post explains it all but it's shocking how little you know of Ahmadiyyat if you associate it with said sects.
I know more than enough about Ahmedeyah sect. I did not associate it with them, its what you assumed. My intention was really to say look at yourself before you point fingers at other sects.
 

Zé Tahir

JhoolayLaaaal!
Moderator
Dec 10, 2004
29,281
I know more than enough about Ahmedeyah sect. I did not associate it with them, its what you assumed. My intention was really to say look at yourself before you point fingers at other sects.
You should go reread the discussion that was going on at the time. In no way did I say I had anything against their beliefs, it's the violent element/those that want to force their beliefs on others that I had a complaint about. Now if you're insinuating that Ahmadi's have a violent element then you don't "know more than enough".
 

PhRoZeN

Livin with Mediocre
Mar 29, 2006
15,841
You should go reread the discussion that was going on at the time. In no way did I say I had anything against their beliefs, it's the violent element/those that want to force their beliefs on others that I had a complaint about. Now if you're insinuating that Ahmadi's have a violent element then you don't "know more than enough".
No you regard the Deobandi/Wahabi/Salafi to have 'violent element'. Truth - All of the sects have individuals who pose as violent extremists (some more than others), yes that includes Ahmediyahs. Whilst the individuals may give the wrong sense of direction to general mass. The sect itself by no means teaches to be violent. You cant paint a picture by looking at individuals, its just Ahmediyah is what you may call a flexible sect, so not getting enough negative exposure as the others from the non muslim world simply because hypocritically they bend the truth as and when they wish but if you got your magnifying glass out and really wanted to know the dark hidden secrets behind this sect you will come to know that they are much worse than Deobandi/Wahabi/Salafi. This aint my opinion but a fact known by majority of muslims.
 

swag

L'autista
Administrator
Sep 23, 2003
83,440
Pretty much all the world's major religions have love-your-God + love-one-another at its core. Put in the hands of man, suddenly that becomes shit-on-your-neighbor-because-he-praises-God-differently.
 

Tomice

Senior Member
Mar 25, 2009
2,981
Pretty much all the world's major religions have love-your-God + love-one-another at its core. Put in the hands of man, suddenly that becomes shit-on-your-neighbor-because-he-praises-God-differently.
God must facepalm so often he got a dent in his forehead
 

Zé Tahir

JhoolayLaaaal!
Moderator
Dec 10, 2004
29,281
No you regard the Deobandi/Wahabi/Salafi to have 'violent element'. Truth - All of the sects have individuals who pose as violent extremists (some more than others), yes that includes Ahmediyahs. Whilst the individuals may give the wrong sense of direction to general mass. The sect itself by no means teaches to be violent. You cant paint a picture by looking at individuals, its just Ahmediyah is what you may call a flexible sect, so not getting enough negative exposure as the others from the non muslim world simply because hypocritically they bend the truth as and when they wish but if you got your magnifying glass out and really wanted to know the dark hidden secrets behind this sect you will come to know that they are much worse than Deobandi/Wahabi/Salafi. This aint my opinion but a fact known by majority of muslims.
Your sugar coating aside more members of those sects are responsible for spreading intolerance and have been behind acts of terror.

A study conducted by the NGO Freedom House found Wahhabi publications in mosques in the United States.[citation needed] These publications included statements that Muslims should not only "always oppose" infidels "in every way", but "hate them for their religion … for Allah's sake", that democracy "is responsible for all the horrible wars of the 20th century", and that Shia and certain Sunni Muslims were infidels
-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabi_movement#cite_note-64

You don't really know anything about Ahmadiyyat do you? In what sense is it flexible? In the sense that it doesn't go around measuring how long your beard is or how high your pants are from your ankles? Or is it because it doesn't blame all the problems of today on the West? Or is it because it preaches Love for All, Hatred for None? Or is it because they simply chose to accept the reformer of the age and not wait for a man that lived over 2000 years ago to magically appear from the sky? What dark hidden truth are you talking about? :howler:

Prove to me how the Ahmadiyya are behind acts of terror, please :lol:

"This aint my opinion but a fact known by majority of muslims."

Who made them judge, jury, and executioner?

"If a man calls his Muslim brother kafir, it applies to one of the two." (Bukhari)

"Whenever a man accuses another of being a kafir or wrong-doer, this accusation will rebound on him if the one accused is not in reality a kafir or wrong-doer." (Bukhari)

"The man who calls another kafir or enemy of God, and the latter was not such, this charge will indeed turn back upon the accused." (Muslim)

"He who curses a believer, it is as if he has killed him. And he who accuses a believer of kufr, it is as if he has killed him." (Bukhari)
 
Jul 2, 2006
18,781
A freed Mubarak should feel at home in today’s topsy turvy Egypt

The lads from state security are behaving with Mubarak-era ruthlessness


Mubarak to be freed? Crazy as it may seem, his freedom would be in keeping with the mad tragedy through which Egypt is living. What would seem impossible in the aftermath of the 2011 revolution – hundreds massacred by state security, police cadets slaughtered by desert gunmen, Mubarak out of jail – has acquired a kind of normality.

On the streets of Cairo there have now appeared thousands of large coloured photographs of Barack Obama with Bin Laden’s beard attached to his chin and a Muslim prayer sign on his forehead. And to the right of Obama is that most handsome of all generals, Abdel-Fattah al-Sisi, Minister of Defence, Deputy Prime Minister and head of the Egyptian army.

So there’s no doubt who the good guys are, and who the bad guys are. State television’s three channels now run a 24-hour banner in English on the top left of the screen: “Egypt fighting terrorism”. And it seems viewers are inclined to believe it. The foul killing of the 25 policemen in Sinai and their dignified military funerals this week almost pushed the killing of 36 uncharged prisoners being transported in a police van by state security men in the Delta off the newspaper front pages. Al-Ahram carried half a page of photographs of these young men and a coloured picture of their corpses lined up after the killers left them. It could be mistaken for a picture of dead Iraqi cops and Syrian civil war victims.

In a report to be published today, Human Rights Watch says it can confirm that 37 Christian churches have been damaged across Egypt. In Minya, for example, Muslim Brotherhood sympathisers left their sit-ins after news of the mass killings at the Rabaa al-Adawiya mosque in Cairo reached them a week ago, and immediately attacked police stations and Christian institutions. These included a Christian-owned houseboat on the Nile in which two men – one of them a Muslim – were burnt to death. In all, foreign NGOs now believe that 121 men were shot dead in Ramses Square on Friday and that police used a machine gun on crowds, guided by television cameras attached to their vehicles.

In the topsy-turvy world in which all now seem to be condemned to live in Egypt, some Copts in upper Egypt are blaming not Muslims for their church destruction, but President Obama. A common rumour is that Obama has a Muslim brother – and that this is one reason why the United States supposedly supported the Brotherhood.

Egyptian journalists I meet on the streets of Cairo all complain that they can no longer write freely although – to keep the book of accusations balanced – it should be remembered that more writers were prosecuted under the rule of Mohamed Morsi than in the previous 185 years of Egyptian history.

Among the few voices of journalistic sanity has been Emad Eddin Hussein in Al-Shorouk newspaper. Writing of the 36 prisoners killed in the police truck last week, he says that “the Muslim Brotherhood may have committed many crimes or brainwashed the minds of many civilians, but this does not justify their killing… The Egyptian government has to ensure the efficiency of police officers, some of whom acted very aggressively towards the Muslim Brotherhood supporters over the past days”

That is putting it mildly. The lads from state security are back in all their Mubarak-like ruthlessness, assisted – as in 2011 – by the hired thugs and ex-prisoners who are used to club protesters with iron bars. So if Mubarak does emerge from the grim confines of the Tora prison complex – wherein his Brotherhood enemies are also being held – he will find the new Egypt of his freedom faintly familiar.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...home-in-todays-topsy-turvy-egypt-8778778.html

I'm not really sure what Turk's been saying but I find it odd that he's mocking Jewish belief based on the Torah because as Muslims we believe in the Bible and the Torah. In fact Jews & Christians are referred to as "People of the Book". We believe their contents and the way they're interpreted have been altered but that's a different story.
We believe in Bible and Torah were holy books brought by messengers of Allah and yes we seperate "People of the Book" from other beliefs. However, that does not mean we believe in what is written in it. I don't mock any belief btw, i am mocking the delusion about israel beign a modern, peaceful state.
 

Martin

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2000
56,913
Pretty much all the world's major religions have love-your-God + love-one-another at its core.
That's misleading. The first yes, the second not so much. God is an organizing instrument that helps distinguish us from them, that's what I see as the main pattern of religion.
 

Bisco

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2005
14,378
That's misleading. The first yes, the second not so much. God is an organizing instrument that helps distinguish us from them, that's what I see as the main pattern of religion.
May be that's the case, however I feel Greg is right regarding the second point despite a few in all religions use it as a factor fit distinguishing between one person and another.
 

Martin

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2000
56,913
May be that's the case, however I feel Greg is right regarding the second point despite a few in all religions use it as a factor fit distinguishing between one person and another.
Show me a religion that isn't patting itself on the back for following "the right God" or following him "the right way".

You can argue that the motive isn't to feel superior to others, but I just don't buy that argument. Our psychology has deep roots in tribalism. Just look around this forum at how many people are "proud" to be Juve fans. What is there to be proud of in one preference over another? Why does this matter to anyone? Because people have the need to belong to something. To distinguish themselves from everyone else who doesn't belong to it.
 

GordoDeCentral

Diez
Moderator
Apr 14, 2005
69,329
Show me a religion that isn't patting itself on the back for following "the right God" or following him "the right way".

You can argue that the motive isn't to feel superior to others, but I just don't buy that argument. Our psychology has deep roots in tribalism. Just look around this forum at how many people are "proud" to be Juve fans. What is there to be proud of in one preference over another? Why does this matter to anyone? Because people have the need to belong to something. To distinguish themselves from everyone else who doesn't belong to it.


but even within the juve fans tribe there are marchisio fanboys, conte/marotta haters... what you are describing is the search of a sense of identity. Groupings are more about 'security' than self actualization. Religion for the most part aimed to cancel out racial and ethnic lines not cultivate them, and many religions recognize other religions as either a part or counterpart further disproving your "we against them" view.
 

Martin

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2000
56,913
but even within the juve fans tribe there are marchisio fanboys, conte/marotta haters... what you are describing is the search of a sense of identity. Groupings are more about 'security' than self actualization.
security from what/whom? how do the marchisio fanboys obtain a sense of security?

Religion for the most part aimed to cancel out racial and ethnic lines not cultivate them, and many religions recognize other religions as either a part or counterpart
To some extent. However, religions also set specific criteria dictating what it takes to be in. And if you're not in you're out.

and many religions recognize other religions as either a part or counterpart
It's a hierarchy. Our members = most valuable. Other similar groups = we tolerate them, sometimes even respect them. People who have no "counterpart" at all (not football fans, not believers in God) = bottom of the scale.

further disproving your "we against them" view.
lol you'd love that
 
OP

ReBeL

The Jackal
Jan 14, 2005
22,871
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #3,518
    Congrats for all those who celebrated the return of the hero Mubarak...

    The MB seems intent on leaving such a bad taste in the mouth of the political Egyptian public that they won't be able to show their faces at the polls in any election for another generation.

    Super Morsy seems to be aiding and abetting political suicide.
    They won't be given any chance to participate in any future elections, whatever their current reactions are.
     

    Bisco

    Senior Member
    Nov 21, 2005
    14,378
    Congrats for all those who celebrated the return of the hero Mubarak...



    They won't be given any chance to participate in any future elections, whatever their current reactions are.

    In which universe did Mubarak return???? Let's not make a huge drama of over reactions to be honest.
     

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