Egypt: from 2011 demonstrations to today (16 Viewers)

[ReBeL]

rebel, and naggar what do u make of this:

http://wikileaks-a.blogspot.com/2011/01/blog-post_30.html

to be honest i think this makes perfect sense. i'm still not home but when i get back to my place iw ill tell u guys my entire expierence and there are a few things i need to correct for u reb regarding certain incidents that happened. example the f-16 fly arounds.

It makes perfect sense, but this document is just fake, Ahmed. It was proved fake by many experts before few days when internet was offline in Egypt.

Here's a funny one

Palestinian government stops a protest supporting Egyptians
and allows one supporting Mubarak.

Why are the Palestinian's backing Mubarak?

Just let me explain this...

All the Palestinian people I know are supporting the revolution of the Egyptian people against that idiot.

There were many demonstrations supporting the revolution here in Amman, in Gaza and even inside the towns occupied since 1948 (The so called Israel).

On the ther hand, you just have to know that the corrupt regime of Mubarak has corrupt friends in the Palestinian authority. Those are the gang that occupies the West Bank right now. This gang led by Abbas and Fayyad knows that their destiny is linked with the destiny of Mubarak, and that is the reason for them making their own thugs going down to the streets of Ramallah to chant for Mubarak, and in the same time, forbidding any attempt by the normal Palestinian people to make any rally in Ramallah and other West Bank cities against Mubarak.

I hope Mubarak will be down soon. Abbas will follow him directly. He lost a friend in the Tunisian dictator, and now he is losing his mentor in Egypt.

Long Live free Egyptians. Go to hell, Mubarak and Abbas...

 

Buy on AliExpress.com

[ReBeL]

Just read the main title in the biggest governmental newspaper, Al-Ahram. It is really pathetic...

It says:

"Millions are making demonstrations supporting Mubarak all over the country"

http://www.ahram.org.eg/432/2011/02/03/25/61189.aspx

 

[ReBeL]

Anyway, we have to say that the anger day for Yemen has just started.

I hope it won't take that much time before that dictator is removed too.

 

[Kasaki]

At one point in time I wanted to be a politician, but now I see how two-faced most of them are. The'll pay for it sooner or later

 

[ReBeL]

The sense of humor is still there

 

[Turk_Bianconero]

@Snoop

How do you connect Caliph and Islamic states with 1915 events? Either you don't know history well or you're doing it purposely.

 

[ReBeL]

So, what happened yesterday was the result of a plan by Jamal Mubarak, Safwat Al-Shareef, Majed AlSherbeeni, and others who decided to make a plan to make the people in Tahrir square leave it as soon as possible. The details of this plan is in Arabic here:

http://dostor.org/politics/egypt/11/february/3/35842

 

[ReBeL]

Anyway, there are some developments in other Arab countries in the last few days that should have been mentioned:

A Moroccan guy burns himself.
A very rare event has started to take place in Saudi Arabia as people living in Jeddah city have gathered to protest against the corruption of the regime that led to the damage of their houses because of the floods that hit the city for their consecutive year. Of course, all the participants were arrested.

 

[Martin]

Well what's the point of a government after all? mainly to achieve what citizens want and serve them right
so when the majority want something, then it should be. this is the whole idea of democracy
well the majority are Muslims and they don't like homosexuality, it existed as a matter of fact in the Islamic country hundreds of years ago and I read of many incidents, I even read about a corrupt Caliph of Bani Ummayya who had a pet slave, for homosexual fun.
ideal is never realized of course, but when you focus on science and taking your country forward, issues like homosexuality become very minor, but when your society is weak, lazy and with no rights, people tend to major in minors and give them more time and thought than they deserve to let out their chronic depression

Homosexuality will always exist, you may see it as a freedom and I may see it as a disgusting abnormal behaviour but at the end there's a place on the planet for everyone and the freedom to choose

I definitely agree that society shouldn't tell anyone to leave, let's assume we have 5% christians and 5% homosexuals in Egypt, and let's also assume we have democracy
now in Egypt you're not allowed to build a Mosque or a Church without a license, and Christians are against that
what are the chances they get what they want through a vote?
what are the chances homosexuals get approved by society through the same way?
it won't happen!
even in the west and Europe where there's freedom as you define it, there are oppresed minorities everywhere, and there will always be

but compared to the treatment minorites get everywhere in the world now, and in other countries during the time of the Islamic country, I'd say Islam treated minorites very well

Yes, but which minorities? How did they treat atheists? Or people who were born into a Muslim family and never had faith? Or people who had it and then stopped believing? Or dissidents to Islam? Or political opposition to the rulers?

Western societies are not a paradise for homosexuals, far from it. In some European countries they have obtained the right to get married like everyone else, but it's a small minority. And there is still much prejudice and hatred against them. But at the very least they are not being molested by the law, you don't get sent to prison for being a homosexual or for being seen with another homosexual. So tell me, in this hypothetical Islamic state, would you risk going to prison for being a homosexual?

Homosexuality will always exist, you may see it as a freedom and I may see it as a disgusting abnormal behaviour but at the end there's a place on the planet for everyone and the freedom to choose

It's certainly abnormal, but so is almost everything else. Being a Juve fan is abnormal, because there are more people who are not than those who are. Abnormal means nothing more than being in the minority.

And I can say that people who like the color pink and fill their houses with things that are pink are disgusting, but so what? It doesn't affect me at all.

 

[ReBeL]

But it does affect us if the number of homosexuals increases. But that impact will be positive one as the demand on women will decrease while the supply is somehow fixed

 

[Azzurri7]

Snoop, Islamic state as it should really be is a much much better government than what ALL Arabs are in now

BUT the people who call themselves Islamic these days are obviously corrupt as well as others, a true Muslims doesn't seek power, and doesn't use his religion as a way to climb up in politics.

I see some contradictions here Naggar.

Islamic state (like you claim) should be much better government than what Arabs are experiencing no? Then you say majority who call themselves Islamic are corrupted and aren't really following their Islamic law no?

How can you guarantee that if there's Islamic state to replace Mubarak no more corruptions or even a regime worse than Mubarak?

If you mean by Islamic states the likes of Taliban government,then you are right and i'm with you they should not exist at all,Iran & KSA are nothing but hypocrites and dictators,but as Naggar says a true Islamic state is not the one you think,and History itself witnesses many successful Islamic states.

Whenever the term Islamic state is mentioned everyone would directly think it's a state that dosen't advocate freedom of speach,agianst modernity and has no religious toleration.But that's exactly opposite to what Islam teaches.

We are not living 200/300 years backwards, nowadays religious people are into politics, and being a religious politician man makes you 99.99% corrupted. Therefore the odds of having a clean Islamic state is like saying Parma will win the Scudetto this year. Which is impossible.

As long as people choose them nobody has right to complain. Muslims too have right to live under their law in their country. French people can't live under Sharia but people expect Muslims to live under european law. Don't know what ugly wars you're talking about but most remembered ones are crusades and WWs which is not started by muslims. True Islamic states are responsible for protect their non-muslims as well. Nothing to worry about for you.

Religious people or let me be more accurate, fanatic religious people are brainwashed most of the times therefore they don't know what's right for their country and what's not. Sure Egyptians have the right to live under their law but having one fanatic religious man controlling a country of 80million population is more dangerous than Mubarak ruling Egypt for the next 10-15 years more.

If I have to pick (and this is coming from someone who lives in a country with 18sects) If I have to pick between a dictator like Mubarak or a religious fanatic man coming into power I'm afraid I'll pick Mubarak.

My friend Snoop,How can you say a true Islamic state will not secure a better Education?!!!
Don't you know mate what Muslims contributed to Science,Art and Philosophy.

It's never the case nowadays, it used to be the case 100 years ago, not anymore. Islamic state doesn't educate you as good as the western or eastern TBH.

When you put religion in your sight and see nothing but the holly book there's no room for improvement in this world. It's like you set limits for yourself.

This is coming from someone who has grown up in a country where it's a mixture of Christians Muslims and 18sects.

 

[ReBeL]

being a religious politician man makes you 99.99% corrupted.

Well Rab, I was shocked when I read that post. It is so confusing, man. Many many points that need discussion, but first how do you justify the conclusion you had above?

 

[Raz]

When you put religion in your sight and see nothing but the holly book there's no room for improvement in this world. It's like you set limits for yourself.

What kind of limits are you talking about? If everyone would do what you have said there would not be any need for revolutions or any bloodshed whatsoever.

 

[Martin]

But it does affect us if the number of homosexuals increases. But that impact will be positive one as the demand on women will decrease while the supply is somehow fixed

You are completely wrong. To keep the supply of women constant you must keep the ratio of homosexuals constant, both among men and women. If the number of homosexual men increases, but the number of homosexual women increases even more, you get the opposite effect of what you said.

 

[Azzurri7]

Well Rab, I was shocked when I read that post. It is so confused, man. Many many points that need discussion, but first how do you justify the conclusion you had above?

Lebanon is an example Abed, Christian Leader Battrak Sfeir is a corrupted religious man hiding behind his religious status, Nasrallah is the same though I know you will disagree. But to me a religiouls man seeking power and chairs in politics is corrupted. Look in Saudi Arabia, look at Iranian regime. It's all the same man.

If my profession lets say Footballer and I try to get into Tennis, will I play it professionally? When someone is raised on nothing but religion why not practice it all your life instead of getting into politics? Could it be an interest? Or more?

 

[ReBeL]

You are completely wrong. To keep the supply of women constant you must keep the ratio of homosexuals constant, both among men and women. If the number of homosexual men increases, but the number of homosexual women increases even more, you get the opposite effect of what you said.

I was implying that homosexual women are too easy to make them return to being straight. Anyway, this is too off-topic, I guess.

 

[Azzurri7]

What kind of limits are you talking about? If everyone would do what you have said there would not be any need for revolutions or any bloodshed whatsoever.

I'll make it easy for you. Take a religious fanatic man, put him in an open mind society lets say Switzerland (I'm just giving an example), can he adapt to the environment as easy as any other random man? Can he socialize like others? He'll struggle.

A religious fanatic man who has nothing in his mind but religion lives in his own circle, he's convinced that this is how he should be living. He doesn't want to see further than his capability.

Let me tell you something else, do you know that Islamic schools 99% of them in Arab world do not teach sexual biology topics for grade 6-7-8. This is just a slight example of how they set limits to themselves.

 

[Martin]

I was implying that homosexual women are too easy to make them return to being straight. Anyway, this is too off-topic, I guess.

I don't follow. How do you do that?

 

[Raz]

@Azzurri7

Yeah, I got what you meant from you reply to ReBeL, I agree that religious man should not be drawn in stuff like politics, it's against the nature of religion. In my opinion Religion and politics is a bad mix.

But in this case if the people want change I'm all up for it, maybe they will get something worse, who knows, but at least they have tried to make it better.

 

[ReBeL]

Lebanon is an example Abed, Christian Leader Battrak Sfeir is a corrupted religious man hiding behind his religious status, Nasrallah is the same though I know you will disagree. But to me a religiouls man seeking power and chairs in politics is corrupted. Look in Saudi Arabia, look at Iranian regime. It's all the same man.

If my profession lets say Footballer and I try to get into Tennis, will I play it professionally? When someone is raised on nothing but religion why not practice it all your life instead of getting into politics? Could it be an interest? Or more?

Aha. Let's differentiate betwen two things here.

We are talking about qualified leaders with an Islamic background, not leaders with nothing but Islamic background. I don't know if I could deliver you my idea.

There is no contradiction in being a good practicial leader along with having the main characterestics of the true muslim like Fairness, fighting bribery and poverty, and such things. I do not say that we should listen to some guy who knows nothing about politics and economy and knows only some Quran verses. It is well-known in Islam that "If somebody wants to do something, he should do it in an excellent way".

Let's apply this into the leaders you mentioned:

1-Sfair: No comment as he is not Muslim.
2-Nasrallah, Abdullah of Saudi and Najad: They use Islam to impose their opinions. That is not what we call for. We call for having a qualified person who has good ethics. That is it.