Dušan Vlahović (43 Viewers)
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It's like talking to a brick wall at times.Vlahovic is not a team player and he shouldn't be expected to be. He is the linchpin of the squad. The team should be working for him, not the other way round. Do you really think it's a coincidence that his performances dropped immediately upon joining? He went from a team that valued providing through ball service to a team that valued defensive contribution, and has been isolated ever since. The only service he gets are the odd hoofed balls which he has to try and control with his back to goal and wrestle off a defender at the same time. He has been expected to adapt to a system that doesn't suit his abilities and as a result his confidence is shot. The guy is confused. He isn't a bad player, he's just mentally weak and has to put up with an incompetent coach at the same time.
As for the quality of this team, who do you think is to blame for that? When you have a coach that only wants a starting XI of <6ft lumps because hes obsessed with pHySiCaLiTy and outmuscling the opponent, then don't expect the team to be very technical or skillful, or there to be seamless build up play from the midfield to the attack. The team is the way it is and has been for the last god knows how many years precisely because of this terrible approach to squad building. Buy a bunch of two left-footed oafs like Khedira, Rabiot, Emre Can, Matuidi, De Sciglio e.t.c then struggle to get rid of them and/or renew them (because we are that stupid), or worse still, refuse to learn our lesson and replace them with more oafs tied down on 5 year contracts to appease the mister. Players then flop, and the cycle repeats itself. Nothing changes.
We are still reaping the consequences of our transfer strategy from 5/6 years ago.
As for Vlahovic, you are right that hes mentally weak. Do we need/want mentally weak players here without more facets to their game? You can surround mediocre forward with superstars that would feed him through balls every game. He wasnt brought for that, we dont have a squad with that capability. For 80m you are not supposed to buy a forward that is as one dimensional as him is proving to be. We expected something different from him so the blame lies on sporting directors that assembled this team. Allegri wasnt here for 2 seasons so why didnt we buy different type of players in that period? Why didnt they revamp the midfield. Sarri surely doesnt like tall and lanky mids. The point is coaches have limited influence on the market. The collosal mistake was made in 2018 with acquisition of Ronaldo instead of focusing on the midfield area so here we are now, broke and looking for bargains. It is increasingly difficult to spend 50-60m on a single player atm.
You obsession with a coach is unhealthy. He might leave next year, however, the team will still be mediocre for a while until we get out of red. Can Guintoli find next Pogba or Vidal for cheap? I certainly hope so as he assembled respectable team with even less money at Napoli. Look at what Marotta has been doing at Inter. To go from Marotta to Paratici and then to hire someone from Ferrari to deal with football matters, this was the problem.
There's the good old 3-0 Barca 
Calling Khedira an 'incredible' player is stretch, he was solid at most. Then came his spectacular decline in 2018 which made him victim to many insults and scapegoating for our midfield problems, as most people here will remember. But this is besides the point. I'm not arguing that individuals like Khedira were bad per say, but rather the hoarding of players with similar attributes affected the equilibrium of this team. Allegri became far too focused on packing the starting XI with strong, towering, albeit slow players during a time when football was rapidly evolving to be a more technical affair that was more focused on skill and pace. In turn that affected our forwards because the midfield wasn't able to act efficiently as a seamless link between the defense and the attack. Our build-up play and particularly our counters were stagnant and slow because these players didn't have the attributes needed to make the quick 3/4 one-touch passes necessary when you're on a break. As a result to this day, we get held up with clunky ball control, allow the opponents to drop back and crowd out the space our forwards found themselves in, and then subsequently because it's too late to do anything we just pass back/get dispossessed. These players are good when you're trying to defend (which explains our obsession for sitting back) but that's it. We haven't even had creative fullbacks in a long time either. We got rid of Spina and Cancelo after like one year for oafs like De Sciglio and Danilo who was then converted into a CB.
You can claim that the turnover of sporting directors has affected us but ultimately they have all towed the same line in putting their trust in the manager and catering to his needs. Both they and Allegri continue to make the mistake of assuming that football is still the same physical affair it was during the 00s and early 10s. It's not. Bar Chiesa, Dybala and Ronaldo I can't think of any other majorly skillful/creative players we've purchased in the last 5/6 years. We couldn't 'revamp' the midfield during Allegri's off-season years not least because of Ronaldo's transfer but also because the management weren't convinced that Sarri/Pirlo were the right men to build this squad around (but naively thought that Allegri was for some reason) and so they didn't commit. This team needs a pure regista with good ball-control and a B2B engine like Barella who can drive the ball forward and provide better service for players like Vlahovic. Enough of the Rabiots and Lukaku talk. We need a change in strategy, and that starts by putting a stop to appeasing Allegri's antiquated dogma.
Calling Khedira an 'incredible' player is stretch, he was solid at most. Then came his spectacular decline in 2018 which made him victim to many insults and scapegoating for our midfield problems, as most people here will remember. But this is besides the point. I'm not arguing that individuals like Khedira were bad per say, but rather the hoarding of players with similar attributes affected the equilibrium of this team. Allegri became far too focused on packing the starting XI with strong, towering, albeit slow players during a time when football was rapidly evolving to be a more technical affair that was more focused on skill and pace. In turn that affected our forwards because the midfield wasn't able to act efficiently as a seamless link between the defense and the attack. Our build-up play and particularly our counters were stagnant and slow because these players didn't have the attributes needed to make the quick 3/4 one-touch passes necessary when you're on a break. As a result to this day, we get held up with clunky ball control, allow the opponents to drop back and crowd out the space our forwards found themselves in, and then subsequently because it's too late to do anything we just pass back/get dispossessed. These players are good when you're trying to defend (which explains our obsession for sitting back) but that's it. We haven't even had creative fullbacks in a long time either. We got rid of Spina and Cancelo after like one year for oafs like De Sciglio and Danilo who was then converted into a CB.
You can claim that the turnover of sporting directors has affected us but ultimately they have all towed the same line in putting their trust in the manager and catering to his needs. Both they and Allegri continue to make the mistake of assuming that football is still the same physical affair it was during the 00s and early 10s. It's not. Bar Chiesa, Dybala and Ronaldo I can't think of any other majorly skillful/creative players we've purchased in the last 5/6 years. We couldn't 'revamp' the midfield during Allegri's off-season years not least because of Ronaldo's transfer but also because the management weren't convinced that Sarri/Pirlo were the right men to build this squad around (but naively thought that Allegri was for some reason) and so they didn't commit. This team needs a pure regista with good ball-control and a B2B engine like Barella who can drive the ball forward and provide better service for players like Vlahovic. Enough of the Rabiots and Lukaku talk. We need a change in strategy, and that starts by putting a stop to appeasing Allegri's antiquated dogma.
There's the good old 3-0 Barca
Calling Khedira an 'incredible' player is stretch, he was solid at most. Then came his spectacular decline in 2018 which made him victim to many insults and scapegoating for our midfield problems, as most people here will remember. But this is besides the point. I'm not arguing that individuals like Khedira were bad per say, but rather the hoarding of players with similar attributes affected the equilibrium of this team. Allegri became far too focused on packing the starting XI with strong, towering, albeit slow players during a time when football was rapidly evolving to be a more technical affair that was more focused on skill and pace. In turn that affected our forwards because the midfield wasn't able to act efficiently as a seamless link between the defense and the attack. Our build-up play and particularly our counters were stagnant and slow because these players didn't have the attributes needed to make the quick 3/4 one-touch passes necessary when you're on a break. As a result to this day, we get held up with clunky ball control, allow the opponents to drop back and crowd out the space our forwards found themselves in, and then subsequently because it's too late to do anything we just pass back/get dispossessed. These players are good when you're trying to defend (which explains our obsession for sitting back) but that's it. We haven't even had creative fullbacks in a long time either. We got rid of Spina and Cancelo after like one year for oafs like De Sciglio and Danilo who was then converted into a CB.
You can claim that the turnover of sporting directors has affected us but ultimately they have all towed the same line in putting their trust in the manager and catering to his needs. Both they and Allegri continue to make the mistake of assuming that football is still the same physical affair it was during the 00s and early 10s. It's not. Bar Chiesa, Dybala and Ronaldo I can't think of any other majorly skillful/creative players we've purchased in the last 5/6 years. We couldn't 'revamp' the midfield during Allegri's off-season years not least because of Ronaldo's transfer but also because the management weren't convinced that Sarri/Pirlo were the right men to build this squad around (but naively thought that Allegri was for some reason) and so they didn't commit. This team needs a pure regista with good ball-control and a B2B engine like Barella who can drive the ball forward and provide better service for players like Vlahovic. Enough of the Rabiots and Lukaku talk. We need a change in strategy, and that starts by putting a stop to appeasing Allegri's antiquated dogma.
Calling Khedira an 'incredible' player is stretch, he was solid at most. Then came his spectacular decline in 2018 which made him victim to many insults and scapegoating for our midfield problems, as most people here will remember. But this is besides the point. I'm not arguing that individuals like Khedira were bad per say, but rather the hoarding of players with similar attributes affected the equilibrium of this team. Allegri became far too focused on packing the starting XI with strong, towering, albeit slow players during a time when football was rapidly evolving to be a more technical affair that was more focused on skill and pace. In turn that affected our forwards because the midfield wasn't able to act efficiently as a seamless link between the defense and the attack. Our build-up play and particularly our counters were stagnant and slow because these players didn't have the attributes needed to make the quick 3/4 one-touch passes necessary when you're on a break. As a result to this day, we get held up with clunky ball control, allow the opponents to drop back and crowd out the space our forwards found themselves in, and then subsequently because it's too late to do anything we just pass back/get dispossessed. These players are good when you're trying to defend (which explains our obsession for sitting back) but that's it. We haven't even had creative fullbacks in a long time either. We got rid of Spina and Cancelo after like one year for oafs like De Sciglio and Danilo who was then converted into a CB.
You can claim that the turnover of sporting directors has affected us but ultimately they have all towed the same line in putting their trust in the manager and catering to his needs. Both they and Allegri continue to make the mistake of assuming that football is still the same physical affair it was during the 00s and early 10s. It's not. Bar Chiesa, Dybala and Ronaldo I can't think of any other majorly skillful/creative players we've purchased in the last 5/6 years. We couldn't 'revamp' the midfield during Allegri's off-season years not least because of Ronaldo's transfer but also because the management weren't convinced that Sarri/Pirlo were the right men to build this squad around (but naively thought that Allegri was for some reason) and so they didn't commit. This team needs a pure regista with good ball-control and a B2B engine like Barella who can drive the ball forward and provide better service for players like Vlahovic. Enough of the Rabiots and Lukaku talk. We need a change in strategy, and that starts by putting a stop to appeasing Allegri's antiquated dogma.
We didnt spend fortune on tall and strong but less technical midfielders during Allegri's reign. They were simply either free (Emre, Matuidi, Rabiot) or we got them for cheap. Ramsey was technical player but plagued with injuries. Khedira was probably one of the smartest footballers around but had injury issues and he also doesnt fit the "profile". I doubt Allegri insisted on spending 100m on Ronaldo instead of revamping the midfield. Both him and Marrota had 0 say in that affair. It was Paratici and Agnelli and their decisions crippled us in years to come.
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And about Dusan, it is laughable that you think replacing Ronaldo, one of the greatest players of all time, a player who could have scored from half a chance, with young and rather unproven player is negligable drop in quality. Ronaldo's quality for years masked ineptitude of our midfielders. If you let go Ronaldo and you dont bring in the type of forward who can make something happen on his own and if you dont invest in better midfielders, this is the result you get.
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There's the good old 3-0 Barca
Calling Khedira an 'incredible' player is stretch, he was solid at most. Then came his spectacular decline in 2018 which made him victim to many insults and scapegoating for our midfield problems, as most people here will remember. But this is besides the point. I'm not arguing that individuals like Khedira were bad per say, but rather the hoarding of players with similar attributes affected the equilibrium of this team. Allegri became far too focused on packing the starting XI with strong, towering, albeit slow players during a time when football was rapidly evolving to be a more technical affair that was more focused on skill and pace. In turn that affected our forwards because the midfield wasn't able to act efficiently as a seamless link between the defense and the attack. Our build-up play and particularly our counters were stagnant and slow because these players didn't have the attributes needed to make the quick 3/4 one-touch passes necessary when you're on a break. As a result to this day, we get held up with clunky ball control, allow the opponents to drop back and crowd out the space our forwards found themselves in, and then subsequently because it's too late to do anything we just pass back/get dispossessed. These players are good when you're trying to defend (which explains our obsession for sitting back) but that's it. We haven't even had creative fullbacks in a long time either. We got rid of Spina and Cancelo after like one year for oafs like De Sciglio and Danilo who was then converted into a CB.
You can claim that the turnover of sporting directors has affected us but ultimately they have all towed the same line in putting their trust in the manager and catering to his needs. Both they and Allegri continue to make the mistake of assuming that football is still the same physical affair it was during the 00s and early 10s. It's not. Bar Chiesa, Dybala and Ronaldo I can't think of any other majorly skillful/creative players we've purchased in the last 5/6 years. We couldn't 'revamp' the midfield during Allegri's off-season years not least because of Ronaldo's transfer but also because the management weren't convinced that Sarri/Pirlo were the right men to build this squad around (but naively thought that Allegri was for some reason) and so they didn't commit. This team needs a pure regista with good ball-control and a B2B engine like Barella who can drive the ball forward and provide better service for players like Vlahovic. Enough of the Rabiots and Lukaku talk. We need a change in strategy, and that starts by putting a stop to appeasing Allegri's antiquated dogma.
Calling Khedira an 'incredible' player is stretch, he was solid at most. Then came his spectacular decline in 2018 which made him victim to many insults and scapegoating for our midfield problems, as most people here will remember. But this is besides the point. I'm not arguing that individuals like Khedira were bad per say, but rather the hoarding of players with similar attributes affected the equilibrium of this team. Allegri became far too focused on packing the starting XI with strong, towering, albeit slow players during a time when football was rapidly evolving to be a more technical affair that was more focused on skill and pace. In turn that affected our forwards because the midfield wasn't able to act efficiently as a seamless link between the defense and the attack. Our build-up play and particularly our counters were stagnant and slow because these players didn't have the attributes needed to make the quick 3/4 one-touch passes necessary when you're on a break. As a result to this day, we get held up with clunky ball control, allow the opponents to drop back and crowd out the space our forwards found themselves in, and then subsequently because it's too late to do anything we just pass back/get dispossessed. These players are good when you're trying to defend (which explains our obsession for sitting back) but that's it. We haven't even had creative fullbacks in a long time either. We got rid of Spina and Cancelo after like one year for oafs like De Sciglio and Danilo who was then converted into a CB.
You can claim that the turnover of sporting directors has affected us but ultimately they have all towed the same line in putting their trust in the manager and catering to his needs. Both they and Allegri continue to make the mistake of assuming that football is still the same physical affair it was during the 00s and early 10s. It's not. Bar Chiesa, Dybala and Ronaldo I can't think of any other majorly skillful/creative players we've purchased in the last 5/6 years. We couldn't 'revamp' the midfield during Allegri's off-season years not least because of Ronaldo's transfer but also because the management weren't convinced that Sarri/Pirlo were the right men to build this squad around (but naively thought that Allegri was for some reason) and so they didn't commit. This team needs a pure regista with good ball-control and a B2B engine like Barella who can drive the ball forward and provide better service for players like Vlahovic. Enough of the Rabiots and Lukaku talk. We need a change in strategy, and that starts by putting a stop to appeasing Allegri's antiquated dogma.
agree with the second part on what we need going forward to build a proper team.
Not really. I mean, sure the market is inflated compared to what it was 5 years ago but there are good deals out there to be made if you look hard enough. Frattesi was practically calling for us to sign him in the summer and we let him go to Merda. There's a lot of talk about this Samardzic dude from Udinese who I admittedly don't know that much about but from what I've heard he somewhat fits what I think we should be looking for in a midfielder. I'll give you Pjanic but that's because Pirlo left a huge void in that midfield that needed filling with someone of a similar characteristic. Even Allegri knew that, but since returning he hasn't cared much for finding a regista of that type. Just this summer we had Rovella, our only pure regista, who we decided to offload after years of loaning him into oblivion without even giving him a chance. We don't actually have someone for that role. Allegri is persistently trying to convert Locatelli into one when it's clear that he's not that type of player.
We didn't spend a fortune on the players I mentioned, but we still packed the squad with those types anyway. That's probably where we went wrong. Allegri and the management got all starry-eyed at these deals and hastily tied them down to silly contracts. We got stuck with a bunch of useless, good-for-nothing bums on big wages that offered zilch to this team. No creativity in them, no flair. Just more pass-back merchants that offer muscle in the midfield and that's it. Ronaldo was an anomoly in that sense, a one-time marketing move that served to boost Agnelli's ego. A ferrari that we never took on the highway. Why? Because he didn't have the service that he needed to thrive, and that's thanks to the players I mentioned. It was not a technical team.
As for Dusan, I've already had this discussion with you. Everyone wanted the lad here. He was a goal machine, a pure striker. His talent and his ability weren't in doubt. No, he wasn't a 'GOAT' like Ronaldo, no one is and no one ever will be. But he was the best we could get. I cannot believe how you're trying to portray this is as if Allegri was somehow hard-done by this transfer when it was a lottery we even managed to sign him in the first place.
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Unless my memory is bad, I don't remember Matuidi being fast. Quite the opposite in fact. He ran like a dog but he was never pacey. A bit like Mckennie in that sense. Ramsey and Bentancur ill give you but I don't think they were intended to be starters. From what I remember, the latter in particular stumbled his way into the team thanks to the many injuries we were suffering from.
I think too much emphasis is being put on the 'towering' part of my post. I'm talking about these 'oaf' like players in general. Everyone was upset when we brought in Danilo to replace Cancelo precisely for this reason. We replaced a fast, skillful and technically gifted player with a rigid one like Danilo. Our movement down that right flank all but ceased, because he was more of a defensive mould. Zakaria is another example of the type I'm on about, so is Mckennie. Big builds but both ultimately useless with their feet.
We didn't spend a fortune on the players I mentioned, but we still packed the squad with those types anyway. That's probably where we went wrong. Allegri and the management got all starry-eyed at these deals and hastily tied them down to silly contracts. We got stuck with a bunch of useless, good-for-nothing bums on big wages that offered zilch to this team. No creativity in them, no flair. Just more pass-back merchants that offer muscle in the midfield and that's it. Ronaldo was an anomoly in that sense, a one-time marketing move that served to boost Agnelli's ego. A ferrari that we never took on the highway. Why? Because he didn't have the service that he needed to thrive, and that's thanks to the players I mentioned. It was not a technical team.
As for Dusan, I've already had this discussion with you. Everyone wanted the lad here. He was a goal machine, a pure striker. His talent and his ability weren't in doubt. No, he wasn't a 'GOAT' like Ronaldo, no one is and no one ever will be. But he was the best we could get. I cannot believe how you're trying to portray this is as if Allegri was somehow hard-done by this transfer when it was a lottery we even managed to sign him in the first place.
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Unless my memory is bad, I don't remember Matuidi being fast. Quite the opposite in fact. He ran like a dog but he was never pacey. A bit like Mckennie in that sense. Ramsey and Bentancur ill give you but I don't think they were intended to be starters. From what I remember, the latter in particular stumbled his way into the team thanks to the many injuries we were suffering from.
I think too much emphasis is being put on the 'towering' part of my post. I'm talking about these 'oaf' like players in general. Everyone was upset when we brought in Danilo to replace Cancelo precisely for this reason. We replaced a fast, skillful and technically gifted player with a rigid one like Danilo. Our movement down that right flank all but ceased, because he was more of a defensive mould. Zakaria is another example of the type I'm on about, so is Mckennie. Big builds but both ultimately useless with their feet.
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Matuidi wasn’t a speed demon, but he wasn’t slow either. He was an energizer bunny kid who could run tirelessly all match. Kinda like McKennie in his first season here under Pirlo but never again since.
Cancelo was sold after we fired Allegri. He had one of his better seasons under Max in terms of per minute attacking output and was pretty much a full-time starter. From what I recall he was sold due to training ground and locker room issues. Which he has had everywhere. It had nothing to do with Allegri disliking him.
Regardless of those details I do agree we need to build a team with a cohesive identity and some actual technical skill. Grinta is great, but it’s kinda pointless when it doesn’t accompany any skill or creativity at all. Nevermind that this current Juve isn’t a grinta side in the slightest lol
Cancelo was sold after we fired Allegri. He had one of his better seasons under Max in terms of per minute attacking output and was pretty much a full-time starter. From what I recall he was sold due to training ground and locker room issues. Which he has had everywhere. It had nothing to do with Allegri disliking him.
Regardless of those details I do agree we need to build a team with a cohesive identity and some actual technical skill. Grinta is great, but it’s kinda pointless when it doesn’t accompany any skill or creativity at all. Nevermind that this current Juve isn’t a grinta side in the slightest lol
Not quite true. He scored basically the same amount of league goals per season as he did in his last 2-3 seasons at Madrid, it's the CL goals that tallied up. We weren't as good a team as a multiple CL-winning team, go figure. Also not really surprising to see his goals start to level out a bit as he was 33 when he joined us.
For all the goals he scored, he did also put in some dogshit performances. The amount of times he got the ball in a position where Ronaldo of years ago would have blitzed past 2 or 3 players and scored a goal by himself, invariably he faced up against the right back of Bologna or Sampdoria and looked very much human. He took a lot of shots and a lot of misses. And that's without mentioning how he's the worst free-kick taker I've even seen put on the jersey. But even at his age he was a weapon because of his directness and hunger for goals, his standards shit all over someone like Vlahovic.
For all the goals he scored, he did also put in some dogshit performances. The amount of times he got the ball in a position where Ronaldo of years ago would have blitzed past 2 or 3 players and scored a goal by himself, invariably he faced up against the right back of Bologna or Sampdoria and looked very much human. He took a lot of shots and a lot of misses. And that's without mentioning how he's the worst free-kick taker I've even seen put on the jersey. But even at his age he was a weapon because of his directness and hunger for goals, his standards shit all over someone like Vlahovic.
