what level.. phase are you on?
im "game over" since i entered the "dont give a fuck bout god"-door
im "game over" since i entered the "dont give a fuck bout god"-door
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Does God exist? (William Lane Craig vs Peter Atkins debate) (27 Viewers)
- Thread starter Dinsdale
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Wasn't trying to be a jerk. Just stating that you have no more evidence to state unequivocally that the commandments were man made than I do to say that they were God given. The men who created America saw those as God given commandments and thus the country and its laws/constitution were formed around that premise
Still doesn't make it the best post.
I'm willing to listen. But to what extent should I listen? Should I be open to everything? And where do I draw the line between open minded and gullible?
The worst part is that I'm accused of being closed minded while all the religious people here believe in only ONE religion of the several that exist. I'm the one here who was born into a Hindu family, and is trying to read the Bible, Quran and listening to arguments from Hindus, Christians and Muslims. Yet I am in a closed off mode? Fuck this!
*atheist
Who decides what greater knowledge is? Why is it assumed that the atheist is the one who lacks greater knowledge? Why is it assumed that a religion is the prime authority in greater knowledge?
Oh please! Your mind is made up too! I showed you how something coming from nothing is more likely. Yet you refused to accept it and still insisted that it had to come from somewhere. No matter what humanity finds out about our universe, you WANT it to come from the god you worship.
I'm willing to listen. But to what extent should I listen? Should I be open to everything? And where do I draw the line between open minded and gullible?
The worst part is that I'm accused of being closed minded while all the religious people here believe in only ONE religion of the several that exist. I'm the one here who was born into a Hindu family, and is trying to read the Bible, Quran and listening to arguments from Hindus, Christians and Muslims. Yet I am in a closed off mode? Fuck this!
*atheist
Who decides what greater knowledge is? Why is it assumed that the atheist is the one who lacks greater knowledge? Why is it assumed that a religion is the prime authority in greater knowledge?
Oh please! Your mind is made up too! I showed you how something coming from nothing is more likely. Yet you refused to accept it and still insisted that it had to come from somewhere. No matter what humanity finds out about our universe, you WANT it to come from the god you worship.
I would get into a discussion and ask a lot of questions and learn first, judge second. The difference is in judging first and then looking for patterns in the observational data to fit your preconceived hypothesis.
No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying something along the political, paradoxical lines of "There's nobody more intolerant and narrow-minded than a tolerant and open-minded liberal".
Saying b.s. like "we may never know" smacks a little too uncomfortably close to intelligent design to me. That's just a solution in search of a problem and the data to support it. It really has little credence beyond flying spaghetti monsters.
What I'm saying is that there are great, unanswered questions in why are humans such magnets for both healthy and unhealthy religious beliefs. I tend to believe that everyone has religious beliefs of some sort -- and that the people who regard themselves as "superior to animals" because they believe they uniquely lack "religion" are, in fact, expressing their own form of a religious belief and are in a sort of childish denial of their own reality.
Ultimately, it comes down to not being able to escape your own humanness -- the fact that we've been coded since birth, and perhaps even before for thousands of generations, to express an innate need to explain the universe, how it came to be, and how we came to be. "Myths" is a loaded word in modern scientific context, but we all live by these myths... even if said myths are myths in the traditional sense: the traditional storytelling humans use to unfold a world view.
Which isn't to say that a believer in Prometheus is more "correct" than someone who believes fire is really just a form of energy of matter transformation into heat and light -- and not yet another thing the Greeks can claim to have invented. The question is really what is the glue or the genetic encoding or the dark matter of human life that is the source and engine for all of this, regardless of how each set of peoples expresses or tries to explain it. And not just "what", but can we ask why it is there? Is there a higher function it is serving that we may or may not understand much yet? Could even natural selection be a reason for its existence?
And yes, I did see that South Park episode. I thought it was hilarious. Agnostics do not get publicly made fun of enough. It's the belief system that everyone chooses to ignore, so it was actually kind of cool that someone actually addressed it publicly.
This is getting deep. Not sure how much more I can handle before I need to go vent in the player threads. I'm trying though. 
So essentially you're saying that some things that happen, certain phenomenons that can't be explained are a result of something we don't know or may never know?
Have you ever seen the South Park episode where Kenny gets sent to an agnostic foster home?
So essentially you're saying that some things that happen, certain phenomenons that can't be explained are a result of something we don't know or may never know?
Have you ever seen the South Park episode where Kenny gets sent to an agnostic foster home?
Saying b.s. like "we may never know" smacks a little too uncomfortably close to intelligent design to me. That's just a solution in search of a problem and the data to support it. It really has little credence beyond flying spaghetti monsters.
What I'm saying is that there are great, unanswered questions in why are humans such magnets for both healthy and unhealthy religious beliefs. I tend to believe that everyone has religious beliefs of some sort -- and that the people who regard themselves as "superior to animals" because they believe they uniquely lack "religion" are, in fact, expressing their own form of a religious belief and are in a sort of childish denial of their own reality.
Ultimately, it comes down to not being able to escape your own humanness -- the fact that we've been coded since birth, and perhaps even before for thousands of generations, to express an innate need to explain the universe, how it came to be, and how we came to be. "Myths" is a loaded word in modern scientific context, but we all live by these myths... even if said myths are myths in the traditional sense: the traditional storytelling humans use to unfold a world view.
Which isn't to say that a believer in Prometheus is more "correct" than someone who believes fire is really just a form of energy of matter transformation into heat and light -- and not yet another thing the Greeks can claim to have invented. The question is really what is the glue or the genetic encoding or the dark matter of human life that is the source and engine for all of this, regardless of how each set of peoples expresses or tries to explain it. And not just "what", but can we ask why it is there? Is there a higher function it is serving that we may or may not understand much yet? Could even natural selection be a reason for its existence?
And yes, I did see that South Park episode. I thought it was hilarious. Agnostics do not get publicly made fun of enough. It's the belief system that everyone chooses to ignore, so it was actually kind of cool that someone actually addressed it publicly.
why do you show such a disdain for non-believers? ever wondered why people see as narrow minded, ignorant, closed off and arrogant?
you have no respect for science, which you have proven time and time again, when you try to discuss matters that has its basis in scientifical studies. like crime and economics. you deny empirical evidence to suit ur faith. its so disrespectful towards us who have faith in science and the humankind.
ur taking part in this discussion serves no purpose but to preach.
you have no respect for science, which you have proven time and time again, when you try to discuss matters that has its basis in scientifical studies. like crime and economics. you deny empirical evidence to suit ur faith. its so disrespectful towards us who have faith in science and the humankind.
ur taking part in this discussion serves no purpose but to preach.
Thanks. There you go with being right again.
Greater knowledge is more than you have now. That's it.
It's not just many (and I emphasize many and not all) atheists, however. You can become closed-minded and stop identifying and asking good questions in any walk of life, having your mind made up that you know everything about a subject and it's time to move along.
The one thing I do kind of admire a lot of religions for relative to atheism is that they often believe in the progressive reveal... the idea that learning is a journey and you gain more wisdom out of it the more you go on that journey. We have massive counter-examples, of course, where "Stay off the lawn" signs are prominently displayed around things like homosexuality, birth control, women's rights, etc., etc. But it's the general concept of a life committed to continual learning.
Greater knowledge is more than you have now. That's it.
It's not just many (and I emphasize many and not all) atheists, however. You can become closed-minded and stop identifying and asking good questions in any walk of life, having your mind made up that you know everything about a subject and it's time to move along.
The one thing I do kind of admire a lot of religions for relative to atheism is that they often believe in the progressive reveal... the idea that learning is a journey and you gain more wisdom out of it the more you go on that journey. We have massive counter-examples, of course, where "Stay off the lawn" signs are prominently displayed around things like homosexuality, birth control, women's rights, etc., etc. But it's the general concept of a life committed to continual learning.