Does God exist? (William Lane Craig vs Peter Atkins debate) (11 Viewers)

[swag]

I cannot comment on your reply, as I know very little about either subject to form a comprehensive opinion.

I'm basically saying that humans are fallible. We get shit wrong all the time -- whether it's a police lineup or what someone says in Aramaic that gets verbally passed along in Greek and gets handed over for 8 generations before someone actually bothered to write it down.

And lo and behold: cultural relevance takes over the storytelling. Who would have thought that? Perspective is everything.

 

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[Sheik Yerbouti]

I'm basically saying that humans are fallible. We get shit wrong all the time -- whether it's a police lineup or what someone says in Aramaic that gets verbally passed along in Greek and gets handed over for 8 generations before someone actually bothered to write it down.

And lo and behold: cultural relevance takes over the storytelling. Who would have thought that? Perspective is everything.

Humans definitely are fallible, so are their ideas. But a god isn't. If a god does exist, and he helped author one of the religious texts, then how could the end result be so fallible? How could he, in all his omnipotence, let numerous fallible stories about him be passed down to humans at the very first phase: revelation? How can I possibly believe in such a god?

 

[swag]

Humans definitely are fallible, so are their ideas. But a god isn't. If a god does exist, and he helped author one of the religious texts, then how could the end result be so fallible? How could he, in all his omnipotence, let numerous fallible stories about him be passed down to humans at the very first phase: revelation? How can I possibly believe in such a god?

Now there are some religions that believe the word is direct. But that's the minority, really. How else can you explain the 47 versions of the Christian bible?

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Now there are some religions that believe the word is direct. But that's the minority, really. How else can you explain the 47 versions of the Christian bible?

Some believe it was direct. Some believe it was divinely inspired. I believe that they are all man made.

 

[swag]

Hand crafted in Babel, bay-beee.

 

[Linebreak]

It may be a lose-lose situation for us. But it's not much different for you either. Considering that throughout history, various gods have been described by various tribes, it could be possible that any of those exist. And if only one of them is the real god, then there's a great chance that your god does not exist, or was just made up.

If according to you, atheists gain nothing, then according to me, people who pray to the wrong god gain nothing too.

The Hindu Trinity represent different aspects of Brahman. Brahma has the power of creating, Vishnu has the power of sustaining, and Shiva has the power of destroying. All 3 together embody the properties of Brahman, who is therefore Supreme.

Why do you think Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva do not exist?

The belief that "Various gods are various interpretations of same thing" is as baseless as the concept of god itself. Also, it raises more questions than answer them. For example, why would this singular god manifest himself as Yahweh or Allah, and proclaim that he is the one and true god, and that there are no other gods(which is himself)?

I think this is a stupid explanation, invented by people who want to avoid the possibility of whether these different gods all exist or not.


The truth is indifferent to your perspective. Something either exists or not. Gravity will not cease to exist just because you have a different perspective of it.

Why do you think Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva do not exist? - the short answer is, none of them have absolute power, so they cannot be God. In the Hindu sense, God is really Brahman, the others are not God, as Brahman is the only one with absolute power.

The truth is indifferent to your perspective. Something either exists or not. Gravity will not cease to exist just because you have a different perspective of it. - the truth is the truth no doubt, though it's funny you bring up the example of gravity, a concept which has a number of alternative views/perspectives some of which are new and others which are old.

 

[Nzoric]

My toilet was just smitten

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Exactly. Not only that, it's the first commandment, so he's explicitly saying that there are other gods.

Add to that, this god is a liar, a deceiver, and is clearly suffering from Multiple Personality Disorder and possibly memory loss, cos his commandments to different tribes are different.

Perfect being? I don't think so.

 

[Linebreak]

Add to that, this god is a liar, a deceiver, and is clearly suffering from Multiple Personality Disorder and possibly memory loss, cos his commandments to different tribes are different.

Perfect being? I don't think so.

Every letter of that post is incorrect.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Why do you think Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva do not exist? - the short answer is, none of them have absolute power, so they cannot be God. In the Hindu sense, God is really Brahman, the others are not God, as Brahman is the only one with absolute power.

But that's why they form the Trinity!!! They are not separate from god. Together, they are the physical manifestation of the one true god: Brahman. They may not be gods by your definition. But that does not mean they do not exist.

The truth is indifferent to your perspective. Something either exists or not. Gravity will not cease to exist just because you have a different perspective of it. - the truth is the truth no doubt, though it's funny you bring up the example of gravity, a concept which has a number of alternative views/perspectives some of which are new and others which are old.

Right. But whatever the alternative views/definitions there may be, the force of gravity itself does not cease to exist until we give it a proper definition. Therefore, my point is still valid.

---------- Post added 17.03.2012 at 05:03 ----------

Every letter of that post is incorrect.

That's an unsubstantiated claim.

 

[Linebreak]

But that's why they form the Trinity!!! They are not separate from god. Together, they are the physical manifestation of the one true god: Brahman. They may not be gods by your definition. But that does not mean they do not exist.


Right. But whatever the alternative views/definitions there may be, the force of gravity itself does not cease to exist until we give it a proper definition. Therefore, my point is still valid.

---------- Post added 17.03.2012 at 05:03 ----------



That's an unsubstantiated claim.

That's understandable from a Hindu perspective. But some type of Hinduism have seemingly an infinite number of equivalent "God's". God, by his very nature, as the absolute power over everything, must be one, otherwise, he would have to "compete" with the "powers" of other "God's" meaning he is not suitable to be named "God" because he does not have absolute power and can be challenged by another "Being"

 

[swag]

God is everywhere. He is therefore in my pants.

 

[Linebreak]

God is everywhere. He is therefore in my pants.

He can certainly make you lose what's in your pants, even though it's quite miniature.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

That's understandable from a Hindu perspective. But some type of Hinduism have seemingly an infinite number of equivalent "God's". God, by his very nature, as the absolute power over everything, must be one, otherwise, he would have to "compete" with the "powers" of other "God's" meaning he is not suitable to be named "God" because he does not have absolute power and can be challenged by another "Being"

First of all, "infinite number of gods?" Nope. They all fit into the Vedas and Upanishads. So clearly, they are finite.

Second, they are not all gods. They are avatars. For ex., Rama and Krishna were different avatars of Vishnu on earth. Also, these gods and avatars wouldn't need to compete against one another as they are serving the same purpose: the will of Brahman. They are not individuals seeking to conquer one another. They are simply acting as a guide to humanity.

Third, have you ever considered the possibility that your definition of god and his nature are wrong? Clearly, there is a conflict between your definition, and the Hindu's gods' nature. What's more likely: that the nature of the Hindu gods are wrong, or that your definition of gods are wrong?

---------- Post added 17.03.2012 at 05:17 ----------

God is everywhere. He is therefore in my pants.

I made 2 gods in the toilet this morning.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Oh Linebreak, where art thou?

 

[swag]

He can certainly make you lose what's in your pants, even though it's quite miniature.

And who do I have to blame for that?

I made 2 gods in the toilet this morning.

Bravo!

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

So, no one's gonna refute my points? Linebreak, Hoori, anyone?

 

[GordoDeCentral]

So, no one's gonna refute my points? Linebreak, Hoori, anyone?

Third, have you ever considered the possibility that your definition of god and his nature are wrong? Clearly, there is a conflict between your definition, and the Hindu's gods' nature. What's more likely: that the nature of the Hindu gods are wrong, or that your definition of gods are wrong?

the bolded part is just hilarious, it is beyond obvious that you are extremely confused and constantly need reassurance. How else would you explain arguing someone's definition of 'God' if he doesnt consider hindu deities as Gods whats it to you if anything that ultimately serves your supposed purpose(less "Gods" around). Heres the real point, it doesnt matter how much you tell yourself or argue that you have it figured out, coz the fact is you dont and wont.

 

[Martin]

:cap:

 

[AndreaCristiano]

the bolded part is just hilarious, it is beyond obvious that you are extremely confused and constantly need reassurance. How else would you explain arguing someone's definition of 'God' if he doesnt consider hindu deities as Gods whats it to you if anything that ultimately serves your supposed purpose(less "Gods" around). Heres the real point, it doesnt matter how much you tell yourself or argue that you have it figured out, coz the fact is you dont and wont.

BRAVO!!!