Does God exist? (William Lane Craig vs Peter Atkins debate) (44 Viewers)

[ALC]

There's a discernable difference between how Wahabi islam behaves and the fact that statistics like that will always be skewed by looking at the average - the number is fucked for a number of reasons - A, nature, when a woman gets pregnant she has a child and as a societal norm women are more involved in raising children and will work fewer hours, whether and second the tops of corporate companies are dominated by men, which is sexist, and they command the highest salaries and also the full equality laws have only been fully active in recent generations, to include women over the age of 50 who would have struggled to gain qualifications for higher paying jobs and even get the job when they have them. If you were to compare women between th ages of 20-50 without children against between men aged 20-50 in a wage bracket of 20 000 - 100 000 those numbers would be a lot more balanced.

Equality laws in the UK are so stringent that any form of discrimination will seriously fuck a company up

Wrong. The reason women get paid less is because they don't do as good a job.

 

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[Ford Prefect]

My spelling is awful tonight, my bad.

 

[Juve matador]

Some Muslims are crazy, like those turds who wanted to kill someone for making a cartoon about allah or mohammed or something...

 

[AndreaCristiano]

Some Muslims are crazy, like those turds who wanted to kill someone for making a cartoon about allah or mohammed or something...

Keyword is some. Not all

 

[Zé Tahir]

To be fair the world has changed a lot since then. It would be nice if everybody could live in the 21st century.

Don't make me pull out a Big Lebowski quote. You've taken this out of context. Sheik said:

"If something like that happened in a non-Muslim country, do you still think women would conform to it? Absolutely not. This is absurd and ridiculous".

 

[Juve matador]

And they don't eat pork, but eat chicken and all, thats just fuckin' hilarious.

---------- Post added 10.03.2012 at 01:07 ----------

Keyword is some. Not all

I agree, I'm just saying, I hate those few that take their religion so seriously that if some one says anything bad about it, they become homicidal.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

Wrong. The reason women get paid less is because they don't do as good a job.

no, because they cost more.

 

[AndreaCristiano]

Don't make me pull out a Big Lebowski quote. You've taken this out of context. Sheik said:

"If something like that happened in a non-Muslim country, do you still think women would conform to it? Absolutely not. This is absurd and ridiculous".

Yes but I showed that women in non muslim country do accept this kind of stuff

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

1) Please tell me how you reached the conclusion that the law is based on Islam? I'd be really interested to hear it. I'd also be interested to hear why the rest of the one billion muslims and over 30 muslim countries don't have any such law in place, in fact a law banning women from driving in all other muslim countries is absolutely unheard of. I'd like to hear your explanation for that.

2) Ok, now you're starting to annoy me. I just explicitly stated that i do not condone any sort of sexual discrimination, how and where did you see me justifying sexual discrimination?!

3) I am. But its trolling with a purpose, the purpose is to show you what you guys are doing. I was using your reasoning. You believe muslims should have to answer for one country which happens to be muslim banning women from driving, despite the fact that me and the overwhelming majority of muslims do not agree with that practice, and despite the fact that you cannot justify it from an Islamic perspective at all(and i dare anyone to do that).

1) I'm not sure it is based on Islam. But when ALC raised the point, I was curious to see how you'd refute it. And I didn't understand how the simple act of protesting against the rule made the rule non-Islamic. I just didn't see the reasoning there.

2) When you said "but its not like western society is so advanced in that respect either", I perceived it as though you were defending the sexual discrimination that happens in your country. Apologies if I misunderstood.

3) Any answer I expect is from the person who passed those laws and the basis upon which the thought that law was OK. But you ain't making a strong case that Islam wasn't the basis, considering your reasons as I pointed out earlier in this port.

 

[JuveJay]

It isn't fair to compare nation states that have been around for centuries to others who haven't yet been independent states for half a century. All countries go through an evolution process i believe.

Rather like religion I suppose. I wonder where Islam will be in say, 200 years?

Still, if indeed a country if governed by culture as much as religion, as you said before, then I would say that the culture of these people has been around for a long time, long before modern Islamic states. After all, wasn't Saudi at the epicentre of the birth of Islam? I wonder why it has become such a stronghold for inequality and ultraconservatism?

 

[GordoDeCentral]

Some Muslims are crazy, like those turds who wanted to kill someone for making a cartoon about allah or mohammed or something...

great addition to the conversation

 

[Juve matador]

great addition to the conversation

Thanks.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

Rather like religion I suppose. I wonder where Islam will be in say, 200 years?

Still, if indeed a country if governed by culture as much as religion, as you said before, then I would say that the culture of these people has been around for a long time, long before modern Islamic states. After all, wasn't Saudi at the epicentre of the birth of Islam? I wonder why it has become such a stronghold for inequality and ultraconservatism?

no

 

[Ford Prefect]

And they don't eat pork, but eat chicken and all, thats just fuckin' hilarious.

Theres a reason for that. Pork used make people really ill before refrigeration was invented, it hold no relevance now but its in the books (inc the bible, in Deuteronomy the same book that bitches about homosexuals) so the people listen to it.

 

[AndreaCristiano]

And they don't eat pork, but eat chicken and all, thats just fuckin' hilarious.

---------- Post added 10.03.2012 at 01:07 ----------



I agree, I'm just saying, I hate those few that take their religion so seriously that if some one says anything bad about it, they become homicidal.

well thats perversion of a faith. Any faith perverted for mans gain isn't real faith.

 

[Juve matador]

Theres a reason for that. Pork used make people really ill before refrigeration was invented, it hold no relevance now but its in the books (inc the bible, in Deuteronomy the same book that bitches about homosexuals) so the people listen to it.

Ah right cool, they should start eating it then.

Their books need updating.

 

[JuveJay]

no

If you are nitpicking in terms of the modern state, I already stated I am speaking in terms of the culture of people in that geographical area.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

people aren't separate from their beliefs my man

I agree. But clearly, people do not apply the same reasoning for every belief that they have. Some might have perfectly valid reasons, others might now. Therefore, only their belief is what I criticise, not the person themselves.

 

[AndreaCristiano]

I agree. But clearly, people do not apply the same reasoning for every belief that they have. Some might have perfectly valid reasons, others might now. Therefore, only their belief is what I criticise, not the person themselves.

OK I can respect that. From a friend to another just look at how you approach it. Some might further their discussion with you and others on here if the rhetoric is toned down

 

[Fred]

1) I'm not sure it is based on Islam. But when ALC raised the point, I was curious to see how you'd refute it. And I didn't understand how the simple act of protesting against the rule made the rule non-Islamic. I just didn't see the reasoning there.

2) When you said "but its not like western society is so advanced in that respect either", I perceived it as though you were defending the sexual discrimination that happens in your country. Apologies if I misunderstood.

3) Any answer I expect is from the person who passed those laws and the basis upon which the thought that law was OK. But you ain't making a strong case that Islam wasn't the basis, considering your reasons as I pointed out earlier in this port.

ALC is the one that said the rule was based on Islam, the burden of proof is on him not on me. But i'll play along nonetheless, and i'll repeat myself for the gazillionth time. Arab society has always been patriarchal, long before Islam was introduced to them. I recommend that you read about Arab customs, culture and society in general before Islam.

Rather like religion I suppose. I wonder where Islam will be in say, 200 years?

Still, if indeed a country if governed by culture as much as religion, as you said before, then I would say that the culture of these people has been around for a long time, long before modern Islamic states. After all, wasn't Saudi at the epicentre of the birth of Islam? I wonder why it has become such a stronghold for inequality and ultraconservatism?

It has become?

Anyway, refer to my response to Sheik.