Does God exist? (William Lane Craig vs Peter Atkins debate) (23 Viewers)

[pitbull]

then again Raz, do you really believe Earth and man came together from pretty much nothing?
because whatever way you look at it, this at least makes sense.
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth
unlike
In the beginning there was a big bang, that created earth and some primitive life forms which evolved like crazy during few billion years

 

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[Linebreak]

Linebreak why do you say the evidence is weak? What do you expect to find that would be compeling enough for you?half monkey half man, mermade style?

And if one believe that other species have evolved and is still evolving why not man then? After all we are just another species here, nothing more or less. Or you don't think other species evolved and are evloving still?

Or are you of the opinion the earth is just few thousands of years and everything just teleported out of thin air here on this big ball rock?

Read my previous posts - I don't believe in such things as a young earth and the like.

I would expect that the earth would be absolutely littered with transitional fossil forms if evolution were completely correct, but it isn't. Micro evolution is real and evident, but doesn't produce a new species.

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Really? I thought god was omnipotent?

Also, if god cannot do something, then he ceases to be omnipotent. Of he ceases to be omnipotent, he ceases to be a god.

God is omnipotent, that is, he has power over all things.

He is above time and space, as if he wasn't, he would depend on them, meaning, he is no longer omnipotent.

Being above time and space is a unique quality, not a limitation by any means.

 

[Raz]

Well honestly I don't think big bang exludes "god". The thing I don't agree though is the sudden creaton of everything as you see now. I'm more inclined to agree that "god" or whatever had a hand in things that created stars and from there on we have physics and evolution taking over.

You can see species die all the time and become extinct, plus there is there are compeling evidence of other species and their veriaty and their extinction at some point in the past, but you still see so much veriaty of species. So ether god created an overpacked earth and stuff just keeps on dying or he is replenishng them one by one without us noticing it, or maybe all this life is just taking it's natural course and regulating itself. Some die, adopt or florish with acording to the changing enviroment. And we humans are not imune to these things and we are in the same pot as everyone on this planet.

I love comercials and marketing campaigns about "saving the planet". Damn, planet doesn't care about us, we are just another species to them, and if we don't adopt we will probably have the same fate as the dinozaurs did or like any other species that thought they were the top dogs on this rock.

And your view on begining earth and primitive life is a bit summed up, there is trillions of years and so many other things that happened between some of the stages you said. And considering what we know about star formations today it's not that hard to imagine how the earth formed, it's really not. On the other hand, to think that it just poped up from nowhere is a bit trickier.

Imo evolution doesn't disprove god and the same is other way around.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

then again Raz, do you really believe Earth and man came together from pretty much nothing?
because whatever way you look at it, this at least makes sense.
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth
unlike
In the beginning there was a big bang, that created earth and some primitive life forms which evolved like crazy during few billion years

God may have created the heaven and the earth according to the Bible, but what about Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and the moon?

God created light AFTER creating heaven and the earth. But we know that the sun is older than the earth(4.6 billions years vs. 4.54 billion years). So your creation story not only makes no sense, it is evidently wrong.

 

[Hængebøffer]

then again Raz, do you really believe Earth and man came together from pretty much nothing?

According to Hawking it's possible. I find him more believable than the bible, cause he actually have some research that supports this statement.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

God is omnipotent, that is, he has power over all things.

He is above time and space, as if he wasn't, he would depend on them, meaning, he is no longer omnipotent.

Being above time and space is a unique quality, not a limitation by any means.

Sounds like non-sense.

 

[Raz]

Read my previous posts - I don't believe in such things as a young earth and the like.

I would expect that the earth would be absolutely littered with transitional fossil forms if evolution were completely correct, but it isn't. Micro evolution is real and evident, but doesn't produce a new species.

Isn't there a thing in bible that says that in heaven it is like in earth? I mean if it's evident in micro why should it be different in macro?

Well the life of earth is a long one, and a lot of things tend to not be so imune to time, have you heard of the saying from dust to dust? Anyway, what doyou think of sea creature fosils on top of the himalayan mauntains?

 

[Linebreak]

According to Hawking it's possible. I find him more believable than the bible, cause he actually have some research that supports this statement.

How the heck is it possible that something, that didn't exist, created itself?

God was the creative force behind the big bang.

 

[Bianconero_Aus]

As he created time and matter, he cannot, by his nature, be contained by them, as it would mean he would become dependent on them, yet he is, by his nature, beyond being dependent on any of his creation.

How do you know?

 

[pitbull]

God may have created the heaven and the earth according to the Bible, but what about Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and the moon?

God created light AFTER creating heaven and the earth. But we know that the sun is older than the earth(4.6 billions years vs. 4.54 billion years). So your creation story not only makes no sense, it is evidently wrong.

You do realise the time bible was written? Every word of it was God inspired, but it was still written by a man many centuries before Christ.

 

[Linebreak]

Isn't there a thing in bible that says that in heaven it is like in earth? I mean if it's evident in micro why should it be different in macro?

Well the life of earth is a long one, and a lot of things tend to not be so imune to time, have you heard of the saying from dust to dust? Anyway, what doyou think of sea creature fosils on top of the himalayan mauntains?

The earth went through many changes before man was created.

 

[Raz]

According to Hawking it's possible. I find him more believable than the bible, cause he actually have some research that supports this statement.

Everything is possible in an infinate uninverse, but that doesn't help anyone does it?

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

How the heck is it possible that something, that didn't exist, created itself?

Quantum mechanics. Virtual particles pop in and out of existence in a vacuum. This has been confirmed by experiment.

God was the creative force behind the big bang.

Then why doesn't the Bible say "In the beginning, god created the big bang"?

You do realise the time bible was written?

Enlighten me.

 

[Raz]

The earth went through many changes before man was created.

So everything was evolving, living and dying according to some rules in this world, EVERYTHING from big bangs, to dust clauds and stars, from moons and solar systems, from every life there possibly is in universe and on this planet, but we poped from thin air? Well... I dunno, nut that sounds streached a bit.

Plus, what do you mean evolution on a micro level but no species? If you mean that a tree cannot give birth to a human I'm inclined to agree, but if a one cell organism cannot evolve to something different from what it was I'm not.

 

[Linebreak]

Quantum mechanics. Virtual particles pop in and out of existence in a vacuum. This has been confirmed by experiment.




Then why doesn't the Bible say "In the beginning, god created the big bang"?



Enlighten me.

Virtual particles are interestingly named God particles.

Besides they need a magnetic field to exist, not nothing.

 

[pitbull]

Enlighten me.

Different times and places, but all Old Testament books were written B.C., Moses (the one who's usually thought of as the author of Genesis for example) apparently lived more than a thousand years b.c. You truly expect him to be more specific about "earth and heaven"? Jupiter, Mars, seriously man?

 

[Raz]

Quantum mechanics. Virtual particles pop in and out of existence in a vacuum. This has been confirmed by experiment.

Who knows, I think we actually know so little about this.

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Virtual particles are interestingly named God particles.

Besides they need a magnetic field to exist, not nothing.

Interestingly homosapiens are named in the ape tribe or whatever mate.

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Different times and places, but the all the Old Testament books were written B.C., Moses (the one who's usually thought of as the author of Genesis for example) apparently lived more than a thousand years b.c. You truly expect him to be more specific about "earth and heaven"? Jupiter, Mars, seriously man?

Some math formula that no one undestands and just throws away leaving nothing to read or teach would have been nice.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Virtual particles are interestingly named God particles.

No they're not.

Besides they need a magnetic field to exist, not nothing.

Watch the video again. There was no magnetic fields involved.

This is not up for debate. The experiment confirms that these particles pop in and out of existence. So far, there has been no experiments confirming a god. You lose.

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Different times and places, but all Old Testament books were written B.C., Moses (the one who's usually thought of as the author of Genesis for example) apparently lived more than a thousand years b.c. You truly expect him to be more specific about "earth and heaven"? Jupiter, Mars, seriously man?

Yes I do. Moses was speaking to god and god is omniscient. He knows everything. So there is no excuse for vagueness or incorrectness when you got an omniscient source.

 

[Hængebøffer]

Quantum mechanics. Virtual particles pop in and out of existence in a vacuum. This has been confirmed by experiment.

Exactly.
It's funny how we have learned and accepted new understandings through research in other areas, but when it comes to god - people just dismisses everything.

In his earlier research, Hawking accepted that god could have created the Earth, but with the new research he says that god is not necessary, when it comes to the creation of the Universe.

"I don't claim that God doesn't exist. God is the name people give to the reason we are here. But I think that reason is the laws of physics rather than someone with whom one can have a personal relationship. An impersonal God."

 

[pitbull]

Yes I do. Moses was speaking to god and god is omniscient. He knows everything. So there is no excuse for vagueness or incorrectness when you god an omniscient source.

Have a good day Sheik and no offense, but maybe you should take an interest in another subject, discussing religion here (for what, 3 years?) surely hasn't made you any smarter on the topic