Do you believe in God (12 Viewers)

gray

Senior Member
Moderator
Apr 22, 2003
30,260
#81
Well for starters, if we were to prove with human methods that God exists, that would require that we understand God completely...which would make us...God :D !? So don't expect this to be like a mathematical proof.

There's some questions which i believe point to the existence of God.

The first question has to do with the form of the universe. Most scientists now agree that the universe began with a Big Bang.I haven't heard, an explanation for why the universe began to develop such variety as it cooled, since it began as such a balanced, even soup of atomic matter. And why did the stars and planets start to spin around one another in fantastic whirls and patterns?

I think God stirred the soup. I can't prove it, but it sure looks like God dipped his fingers into the "formless" void (Genesis 1:2) and set the stars and planets in motion.

A second question I've wondered about has to do with the emergence of self-aware life on earth

From an evolutionary standpoint, why would self-awareness develop in only one species? Why wouldn't other animals develop a similar intelligence, assuming that it is a trait which is beneficial to survival?

I think that at some point in earth's history, God chose to move around a little dust, shaping one species in his own image (Genesis 2:7). I've never heard a better explanation for why we alone, out of all the earth's creatures, are able to contemplate our own existence -- and that of our Creator.

Finally, the third piece of evidence which has always fascinated me is the remarkable consistency of God's Word. Any literary historian will confirm the fact that the books of Bible had many authors, spread out over hundreds of years. The books emerged from different cultures, different historical periods, and were even written in different languages. So how did this amalgamation manage to remain so consistent in its message of salvation? How did the many authors manage to "stay on point"?

I think God's Spirit did a little whispering to the writers ("All Scripture is God breathed..." 2 Timothy 3:16). The existence of the Bible doesn't prove God exists -- but I can't think of any other reason why this one book has survived intact for so many centuries.

Faith doesn't demand proof. But for those who are uncertain, evidence which points to God might help.
 

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KB824

Senior Member
Sep 16, 2003
31,789
#83
I used to be a devout Roman Catholic when I was younger. Altar Boy, mass every Sunday, the whole nine yards. But, during my time as an altar boy, I started to ask some questions about details of Jesus' life that were simply not in the new testament, such as , why does it seem that almost 20 years of his life isn't even documented, did he fall in love, did he have faults, etc, etc....After all, despite him being the son of God, he was also a human being as well, and that makes him inherently imperfect, so I wanted to know. Instead of having somewhat of a halfway decent discussion with these preists that I looked up to and admired, I was expelled at the age of 13 from being an altar boy, because they questioned my faith, as if I was supposed to take everything that was written in scripture at face value.

Well, that turned me off in a big way, and quite honestly, with all the sex scandals going on with Roman Catholic priests, largely because of their non-sensical rule that forbids them to marry, there really hasn't been much motivation for me to return to the fold, at least as a Roman Catholic anyway.


Do I believe in God? yes, despite all the personal tragedy that has happened in my life, and there's been a lot, I do believe that he/she exists, but I feel that it is up to the individual to find his/her own interpretation of what God is, and what he/she means to you. I don't like to be told what God is by someone who is on the same level as myself, who has the same imperfections that I do, but is being protected by the fact that they are a Priest, and they believe that they are doing God's work.

That's my 2 cents. Because to me, God and football don't mix.
 

Slagathor

Bedpan racing champion
Jul 25, 2001
22,708
#84
Gray - have you ever forgotten to do the dishes? Well, I live on my own and I can tell you that I often forget something. I once left a clean glass with clean water standing in a corner and forgot about it. A couple of weeks later there were all sorts of things growing in it. Life can just pop up, if the circumstances are right.

That doesn't explain how our PLANET got here of course but hey ... I'm not exactly the brightest student in my class :D
 
Sep 28, 2002
13,975
#85
++ [ originally posted by Matto ] ++
Gray - have you ever forgotten to do the dishes? Well, I live on my own and I can tell you that I often forget something. I once left a clean glass with clean water standing in a corner and forgot about it. A couple of weeks later there were all sorts of things growing in it . Life can just pop up, if the circumstances are right.

That doesn't explain how our PLANET got here of course but hey ... I'm not exactly the brightest student in my class :D
where do you live? :scared:

:D
 

gray

Senior Member
Moderator
Apr 22, 2003
30,260
#88
++ [ originally posted by Matto ] ++
I once left a clean glass with clean water standing in a corner and forgot about it. A couple of weeks later there were all sorts of things growing in it.
Dude, that's f#@!d. Get a girlfriend already :p

++ [ originally posted by Matto ] ++
Life can just pop up, if the circumstances are right.
I think the circumstances in which your little green dishmen appeared is different from the creation of life. First of all, the matter was already there, and it simply had to manifest itself in the form of crap in your tupperware.

You didn't make the circumstances right. You didn't create the sun and put it in place, nor did you make the water and oxygen, and all the other things living organisms need in order to function. You also didn't breathe life into the matter to give it the capacity to grow.

The foundations for life have been in place on Earth for a long time now. Farmers are not God because they use what has already been made to 'create' life.

That doesn't explain how our PLANET got here of course but hey ... I'm not exactly the brightest student in my class :D
 

gray

Senior Member
Moderator
Apr 22, 2003
30,260
#91
++ [ originally posted by USA Juventini ] ++
why does it seem that almost 20 years of his life isn't even documented
Why aren't the first 20 years of Pavel Nedved's life documented? It's almost the same principle. His famous birth is documented, but i guess there's little need to talk about his childhood games and the like. Just get straight to the preaching :D

++ [ originally posted by USA Juventini ] ++
did he fall in love
He loved the world, which is why he died for it ;)

++ [ originally posted by USA Juventini ] ++
did he have faults, etc, etc....
Depends what you mean by faults. I'm sure he had boogers in his eyes when he woke up, and got dirty feet from walking around in the dust, but by that question, if you're asking if he sinned, the answer is no.

Jesus was tempted in the desert by Satan, and I'm sure he faced other temptations, but he didn't give in to sin. That's what made him the perfect sacrifice in atonement for man's sins, but i think i've gone into that enough in previous threads.

++ [ originally posted by USA Juventini ] ++
After all, despite him being the son of God, he was also a human being as well, and that makes him inherently imperfect, so I wanted to know.
Hebrews 2:14,17 - He shared in flesh and blood, made in all things like us.

2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 John 3:5; 1 Peter 2:22 - Yet Jesus knew no sin. In Him is no sin, because He did no sin [Heb. 4:15; 7:26]

If we inherit sin from Adam, then Jesus must have inherited it since he was a descendant of Adam and was like us in all things. But since He did not inherit it, we don't inherit it either. :D

That's a bit confusing, I know... and like i've said before, it's not like i have all the answers... but what i find interesting is the question of the reason for Jesus' virgin birth.

Hebrews 2:14,17 - He shared in flesh and blood, made in all things like us.

Luke 3:38; Galatians 4:4 - He was a descendant of Adam, born of woman.

2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 John 3:5; 1 Peter 2:22 - Yet Jesus knew no sin. In Him is no sin, because He did no sin [Heb. 4:15; 7:26]

If we inherit sin from Adam, then Jesus must have inherited it since he was a descendant of Adam and was like us in all things. But He did not inherit it, therefore we do not inherit it. Guilt is not inherited.

++ [ originally posted by USA Juventini ] ++
Instead of having somewhat of a halfway decent discussion with these preists that I looked up to and admired, I was expelled at the age of 13 from being an altar boy, because they questioned my faith, as if I was supposed to take everything that was written in scripture at face value.
Dude that really sux. I'm not here to rip on the Catholic church or anything, but i have no idea why they don't allow questions of faith, and don't allow the members of the church to read and interpret the Bible in their own ways. I don't think that the church authorities or ministers/priests should be above anyone else in the interpretation of the living Word of God... but i'd better stop before i get carried away again :embarass:

++ [ originally posted by USA Juventini ] ++
Well, that turned me off in a big way, and quite honestly, with all the sex scandals going on with Roman Catholic priests, largely because of their non-sensical rule that forbids them to marry,
I agree, I don't know why they shouldn't marry... it leads them to do other things like go smoking and drinking all the time... and they're only human. That's why all these scandals happen, and it's sad, really. :(

++ [ originally posted by USA Juventini ] ++
I do believe that he/she exists
Very interesting Serge. Too much Dogma? :)

++ [ originally posted by Fliakis ] ++
gray can i talk to you on msn?
sure, [email protected] ;)
 

Zlatan

Senior Member
Jun 9, 2003
23,049
#98
++ [ originally posted by gigi's twin ] ++
@kaliman: Do you want a proof? Just look at yourself. You live. And look around you. There is life everywhere. Life is the miracle of God.

Actually, to me life and the world is evidence that God doesnt exist

Also, the Little Prince is the most overrated book of all time.


++ [ originally posted by USA Juventini ] ++


Well, that turned me off in a big way, and quite honestly, with all the sex scandals going on with Roman Catholic priests, largely because of their non-sensical rule that forbids them to marry, there really hasn't been much motivation for me to return to the fold, at least as a Roman Catholic anyway.
You didnt put out, huh? :D :p

++ [ originally posted by USA Juventini ] ++

Do I believe in God? yes, despite all the personal tragedy that has happened in my life, and there's been a lot, I do believe that he/she exists, but I feel that it is up to the individual to find his/her own interpretation of what God is, and what he/she means to you. I don't like to be told what God is by someone who is on the same level as myself, who has the same imperfections that I do, but is being protected by the fact that they are a Priest, and they believe that they are doing God's work.

That's my 2 cents. Because to me, God and football don't mix.
What kind of tragedy, I would really like to know, if you dont mind talking about it.


++ [ originally posted by Matto ] ++

... I'm not exactly the brightest student in my class :D
No shit Sherlock :D ;) :)
 

Martin

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2000
56,913
#99
++ [ originally posted by Fliakis ] ++
where i can download mozilla messenger? :groan: ;)
:D;)

The problem with these proprietary protocols is that the owners decide what's going to happen with them and who can access their networks. Msn was available to Linux users and others for a couple of years before M$ decided all the alternative clients people used to connect to msn would now have to pay for that service and M$ shut them out by "upgrading" the protocol to msn6 and forcing and upgrade on all its users (of Msn Messenger). Not surprisingly, maintainers of the alternative clients, like gaim and trillian, quickly cracked the code and msn is once again open to all. But how long will it last?

But it's not just msn. Aol did something like that with aim, I don't know about yahoo im but apparently icq is the only protocol that has a "nice" company backing it.

The open source alternative is jabber. There are tons of clients for it and it has a lot (if not all) of the features of other "messengers". www.jabber.org

But the reason I hate msn isn't what I already mention, at least not my no1 reason. I always hated msn because they were able to flush the market with no effort at all. See a few years ago, "everyone" was using icq, it was packed with features and it had been around for years. Then M$ decide they want to take over that market with msn, which was and is VASTLY inferior to icq. Since they control the OS market, all they had to do is plug it into windows and make the sucker startup everytime you start windows, it's even hard to kill if you wanna get rid of it. And from that moment on, people just started using it because it was there, suddenly msn is all over the place. THAT is what monopoly does.
 
Aug 1, 2003
17,696
my faith when it comes to god became stronger when -

juve was drawing 0-0 with barca, and during halftime i got so panicky that i went to perform my hajat prayer (its a prayer where you pray so that ur wish is granted) and *surprise* i prayed for juve to go through the semis. when i went down to catch the 2nd half, on the tv it wrote: Barca 0 - 1 Juventus

second, everytime i pray, i pray that i get to see juve someday, and how i wish i could see the juve-milan final. i come from an average family, and the costs of going to uk and stuff needs a shitload of money. well, when i woke up the day before the actual match, my aunt calls and says, 'i have tickets to the final.'

well, that, for me, is a sign that there is a god :D
 

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