Defensive problem!! (3 Viewers)

[Azzurri7]

This might not sound logic to some of you but please, I want you to read and analyze carefully to be able to discuss this.


I haven't missed a single Juventus match this season, from Friendlies to Serie A, Champions League ending with Coppa Italia. And IMO, I think the problem relies on our defensive part.

No one can deny or ignore the fact that we are deeply in need of Nedved replacement/playmaker behind our strikers to improve the quality of our midfield and etc.

But our main problem, the MAIN one starts in defense not in the way we mark/defend/cut the ball/tackle etc but in the way our defenders react with the ball in their feet. Specially our CB ones.

Defensively, I don't think there are more than couple of players better than Chiellini for example. But there are hundreds of players better than him with the ball at their feet. Same goes with Mellberg and Legro.

Another example: Ferdinand isn't better than Chiellini defensively from marking to jumping to heading etc... but he is much more better and mile-stone ahead of him when he's got the ball. He knows when to pass, where to pass and most importantly HOW TO PASS.


Here's what our CB are doing with the ball around their feet.

1) Shooting the ball out for a Corner kick, when they can easily pass it and calm down the rhythm of the game. This give our opponents another chance to attack and score.

2) Getting rid of the ball to throw in. Also giving our opponents a chance to re-build their attack when we can easily pass it.

3) Number 3, this includes our flanks Molinaro and Grygera, crossing the ball when an opponent is getting closer to them crossing the ball but no one knows where to. Just to get rid of the ball.


Whoever watched our last 5/6 matches will realize what I'm talking about. We can't have a ball possession because of this. This is the main reason we don't have a ball possession. There are other factors why we didn't win our matches but this one IMO is 75% of our real problem I'm afraid, if not more.


We don't have a ball control on the back, we don't know what it is to calm down and not keep shooting the ball wide and give our opponents a chance each 2min to re-build.

Therefore, buying Diego next year wont solve it. Even buying Diego Ribery together wont solve anything. The moment you have a defenders specially the CB ones able to control their fear and able to have a good vision of passing then we can look to our problems upfront.

 

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[Bozi]

been saying all season that our problem is not in the forward department but at the back, sort that and only then can we begin to look at addressing the creativity issues

 

[Mark]

We need a playmaker at CB.
That's what a member said yesterday but I think he meant what you're saying.

The defensive system and high defense line also doesn't help IMO. We're a bit slow at the back.

Passing is also something we lack at midfield and that's something you really need to create chances, dictate tempo and give a sense of control of the game.

 

[sateeh]

Completely agreed about our backline's on-ball abilities or lack of in this case. They are not the best players we know that but one could say there are other factors that contribute to failure to maintain possession.

One of the main reasons imo is the lack of movement from our midfielders to the full backs. Also the fact that we don't have a great passer in the midfield or someone who is ready to take on that responsibility of passing the ball around instead of the CB is another factor. Zanetti used to do that very well, and Tiago did well in that role before he got injured against Inter, marchisio shouldn't be expect to do it as its not his role and Poulsen could do it be like Tiago he needs someone next to him who could work hard.

I think there is a problem with the defenders just being defenders consistently over the course of the season. Chiellini is our best defender and is a very good marker, but he still cost us at least two goals over the course of the season off the top of my head( Catania and Chievo). When these players are exposed, they look really ordinary and that is the problem.

 

[swag]

The big killers for us, IMO, have been both at the back and at midfield. Passing is the common thread: this club cannot defend without turning over the ball. And I think Andy picked out a single stat that showed some of the midfield problems: Chiellini has more goals than any of our midfielders. So if you cannot threaten from the middle, and if your defense cannot pass or challenge a counter-attack, defenses can lock down on our forwards.

It's more than the D, but it's where it all starts.

 

[Red]

If our defenders were good at defending, I would start to worry about their technical ability, but that is pretty far down my list of concerns right now.

Ideally, we would have a composed, technically sound CB, who can read the game well, organise the defence and be called Rafael Marquez playing beside Chiellini.

 

[CAPITANO]

we are the only team in world football that plays with a defensive line so high, no other title challenging team would be stupid enough to use this tactic which will only work if your defenders have the speed of Usain Bolt, it has cost us many points this season points and will continue to do so unless things change

 

[dogsarecute]

Poor passing slows down the attack but I find the lack of confidence to deal with strikers a pressing problem. Chiellini had been missing a few key headers which meant there is only Legro/Mellberg to deal with the striker behind Chiellini. The defence is also fooled easily by simple clever balls. Recently, they are backing off too much which gives the strikers more space and options. Organisation of the defence should be addressed first.

 

[Red]

we are the only team in world football that plays with a defensive line so high, no other title challenging team would be stupid enough to use this tactic which will only work if your defenders have the speed of Usain Bolt, it has cost us many points this season points and will continue to do so unless things change

Overall, the high line has worked very well both last season and this.

Most title challenging sides have good enough defenders that they don't have to try and concoct a system which makes it as hard as possible for one of our defenders to be left one-on-one with a forward.


Where were the people who now criticise the high line a month or two ago when we had almost the best defensive record in the league?

 

[Cronios]

Been saying that for 3 years, but no one listens...
We are keep buying expensive forwards and more DMs, in a try to mask this problem. Just like Real Madrid...

Unfortunately CR, Secco and co, are still unaware of this essential issue.
We are only interested on free/cheap defenders, mentioned to be nothing more that quick fixes. The Elkanns gave priority to their favorite Cassano and CR says its only because of the midfield...
I bet he thinks that our wingers cant defend good enough...
Neither our DMs/CMs without the help of or Sissoko.
We will face this problem in the next season too, because we never learn!!

 

[Mark]

Overall, the high line has worked very well both last season and this.

Most title challenging sides have good enough defenders that they don't have to try and concoct a system which makes it as hard as possible for one of our defenders to be left one-on-one with a forward.


Where were the people who now criticise the high line a month or two ago when we had almost the best defensive record in the league?

We had Legro playing like he should be and Momo who contributed a lot in that regard.

 

[Red]

We had Legro playing like he should be and Momo who contributed a lot in that regard.

Absolutely.

If folk want to say that we should have changed our defensive system when Sissoko got injured, they would have a decent case.

Folk slagging off our defensive system more generally, don't.

 

[Oggy]

Been saying that for 3 years, but no one listens...
We are keep buying expensive forwards and more DMs, in a try to mask this problem. Just like Real Madrid...

Unfortunately CR, Secco and co, are still unaware of this essential issue.
We are only interested on free/cheap defenders, mentioned to be nothing more that quick fixes. The Elkanns gave priority to their favorite Cassano and CR says its only because of the midfield...
I bet he thinks that our wingers cant defend good enough...
Neither our DMs/CMs without the help of or Sissoko.
We will face this problem in the next season too, because we never learn!!

Man I've been thinking about them whenever I hear we are linked with another forward. I think that Barca also had similar problem. And it's funny how we have perfect examples to learn on them, but we are not...

 

[CAPITANO]

Overall, the high line has worked very well both last season and this.

Most title challenging sides have good enough defenders that they don't have to try and concoct a system which makes it as hard as possible for one of our defenders to be left one-on-one with a forward.


Where were the people who now criticise the high line a month or two ago when we had almost the best defensive record in the league?

I have never liked the high line defensive setup, Its a risky one which is why no one uses it, most of the time the call comes down to the linesman to weather its successful or not.

When the systems was working great that was good but its not going to work 100% of the time, other managers would realize that that the team is struggling defensively and would change their tactic.

Also don't you think that we give up to much width to the opponents when we are defending, I don't know if this is down to out bad full backs or that Ranieri is willing to give the opponents time to get a cross in.

 

[Bjerknes]

Another example: Ferdinand isn't better than Chiellini defensively from marking to jumping to heading etc... but he is much more better and mile-stone ahead of him when he's got the ball. He knows when to pass, where to pass and most importantly HOW TO PASS.

Which is why we should forget about Cannavaro, as he was never a good passer of the ball. Quite frankly, it was the only ability he lacked when he played for us.

We should rather be looking at Marquez, Agger, et cetera, people who are good defensively but can also play the ball. We don't just need more players who hoof the ball anywhere; we've got enough of those.

 

[Red]

I have never liked the high line defensive setup, Its a risky one which is why no one uses it, most of the time the call comes down to the linesman to weather its successful or not.

When the systems was working great that was good but its not going to work 100% of the time, other managers would realize that that the team is struggling defensively and would change their tactic.

Risky, but overall I think it has worked better than any other system Ranieri could have employed, given the players at his disposal.

Also don't you think that we give up to much width to the opponents when we are defending, I don't know if this is down to out bad full backs or that Ranieri is willing to give the opponents time to get a cross in.

I agree on this point. I don't like how narrowly we defend.

Given that our CBs aren't brilliant, the fullback should work harder to prevent crosses, but Ranieri seems happy to let crosses go in and just make sure we have plenty players in the box to deal with it.

 

[Cronios]

Absolutely.

If folk want to say that we should have changed our defensive system when Sissoko got injured, they would have a decent case.

Folk slagging off our defensive system more generally, don't.

But we had no other options to change our defensive system anyway.
Due to the inabilities of our material. CR has always been extra careful to prove a system that would cover those inabilities and mask our deficiency.
He has sacrificed many things for that, among DC/Giovinco future and our creativity options in the middle, no trident, winger who can defend first and contribute offensively later etc etc...

When we lost the extra work, a beast like Sissoko was able to deliver, our deficiencies became more apparent, when we lost the extra quality Chiellini and Buffon were giving us, we were totally exposed...

We could easily prevent that by acquiring a few quality defenders by the last years. But we ignored that issue, when we should fix it permanently.
Now, there is nothing else we can do to prevent the consequences of this crucial mistake...

Man I've been thinking about them whenever I hear we are linked with another forward. I think that Barca also had similar problem. And it's funny how we have perfect examples to learn on them, but we are not...

sad but true and it is the 3 rd consecutive year we fail to understand that...

 

[Red]

I don't think anyone will disagree with you there.

 

[nasser]

our CBs can't pass cuz there is no one to pass to, our full backs and DMs can't hold the ball under pressure, the only one in the midfield that can hold the ball and make something is camo

 

[xkorpyon]

we are the only team in world football that plays with a defensive line so high, no other title challenging team would be stupid enough to use this tactic which will only work if your defenders have the speed of Usain Bolt, it has cost us many points this season points and will continue to do so unless things change

I could agree more...
I remember that we conceded a foolish goal against Chelsea because of this,,, the ball was just outside the penalty spot and our defenders tried the offside...
Sincerely i don't know want Ranieri his teaching our defenders....

To me other problems that we have:
-is ours CM's including Sissoko (i know many of you love him, but to me he needs to learn how to pass well the ball and improve his position on the field to be WC player. Don't get wrong because i know he is our best CM.);
-the formation that Ranieri gives is not good (4-4-2 very very very straight.)
-BALL, this for me is essential because when we have the ball we don't concede goals, and our team doesn't pass the ball, it's pure counter-attack like we were a small team that attacks 2 times in a game...

IMO if we want to win anything too many things have to change!

I hope that i'm wrong because i know that we will be stuck with Ranieri at least next season