Coronavirus (COVID-19 Outbreak) (79 Viewers)
- Thread starter Bjerknes
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You're being way too selective. You could also say the very same about Arabs and camels as MERS originate from that source, or pigs from Mexico as the '09 swine flu originated from there or poultry from the US as the Spanish flu started in a chicken farm. As long as humans interact with animals as they do now, this'll be inevitable I guess.
There are two reasons for my selectivity;
1) Pigs and birds are eaten in the majority of countries around the world, and camels are part of everyday life in some Arab countries. There is no reason for the Chinese to eat something that is strongly believed to be the cause of two SARS viruses. There are dozens of other forms of protein out there. No one has a pet horseshoe bat. A blanket ban is basic common sense.
2) Notable, recent viruses and diseases known or believed to be transmitted from mammals:
MERS deaths - 858
BSE/vCJD deaths - 178
H5N1 deaths - 455
H1N1 deaths - 284,000 (est.)
West Africa Ebola (2013-16) deaths - 11,323
Lassa fever - 5,000 deaths p/a
Rabies - 50,000 deaths p/a (bite / scratch only)
HeV & NiV deaths - 400
SARS-CoV deaths - 774
SARS-CoV-2 deaths - 1,308,322 (so far)
Swine flu was obviously a serious business, and Ebola deaths were horrible, but there is a number that stands out there above all others.
Of course, there could be a virus that is transmitted through any wild animal, and even on to domestic animals and pets, but as long as people are eating or keeping wild animals as pets this chance of human infection leaps.
1) Pigs and birds are eaten in the majority of countries around the world, and camels are part of everyday life in some Arab countries. There is no reason for the Chinese to eat something that is strongly believed to be the cause of two SARS viruses. There are dozens of other forms of protein out there. No one has a pet horseshoe bat. A blanket ban is basic common sense.
2) Notable, recent viruses and diseases known or believed to be transmitted from mammals:
MERS deaths - 858
BSE/vCJD deaths - 178
H5N1 deaths - 455
H1N1 deaths - 284,000 (est.)
West Africa Ebola (2013-16) deaths - 11,323
Lassa fever - 5,000 deaths p/a
Rabies - 50,000 deaths p/a (bite / scratch only)
HeV & NiV deaths - 400
SARS-CoV deaths - 774
SARS-CoV-2 deaths - 1,308,322 (so far)
Swine flu was obviously a serious business, and Ebola deaths were horrible, but there is a number that stands out there above all others.
Of course, there could be a virus that is transmitted through any wild animal, and even on to domestic animals and pets, but as long as people are eating or keeping wild animals as pets this chance of human infection leaps.
Just remains too selective for me. First there's no real evidence that this infection chain went from a bat to a pangolin to some random Chinese market visitor to every corner of the world nowadays (lol). Also you left out the Spanish flu which caused 50 million deaths and started at a chicken farm in Kansas. Sure we all love chicken more than bat probably, but the risks of new viruses remain when you stock up millions of chicken in a farm. My point is is we should look different at the meat/animal industry rather merely on wet markets in China. As long as hamburgers are sold below $1 and companies still make a profit, it's likely there are some things f'd up with the process.
Also summing up the amount of deaths (as terrible as they are) offer no perspective on the severity of this pandemic. The median age of death due Covid is around 80. Which is probably just as high as the average life expectancy in most developed countries.
Also summing up the amount of deaths (as terrible as they are) offer no perspective on the severity of this pandemic. The median age of death due Covid is around 80. Which is probably just as high as the average life expectancy in most developed countries.
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I left out Spanish flu because it happened over 100 years ago and a lot has changed in science since then. We simply can't categorise chicken and pork with bat, that is the vast majority of world meat consumption. With beef they make up over 90% of the total. There's more regulation in western countries but still, many of these have happened in such countries because of transmission from wild animals. If you choose to eat bat or civet or pangolin or whatever actual wild animal then it's an open door for these diseases to go straight to human mutation and transmission. You can't stop world bush meat consumption in a day but my original post was about the links to bats.
I don't think it's funny to suggest a virus travelled to every corner of the world, not when it is spread by droplets from the nose and mouth. That's easy, you can run any simulation to see the result. Whether it came from a wet market or was made in a Chinese lab the result is going to be the same in 2019 where you have billions of flights per year with people criss-crossing every area of the globe.
I don't think it's funny to suggest a virus travelled to every corner of the world, not when it is spread by droplets from the nose and mouth. That's easy, you can run any simulation to see the result. Whether it came from a wet market or was made in a Chinese lab the result is going to be the same in 2019 where you have billions of flights per year with people criss-crossing every area of the globe.
"Choose to eat" 
Besides, fruit bats are eaten all across Africa, Asia and Oceania by native peoples in quite big numbers, but the bats in relation to SARS are insectivorous bats (the ugly mofos) that are not eaten in large quantities, simply because they are too small to be worth the trouble.
And where the "prestige" to eat more "exotic" animals coming from?
Chinese medicine and the culture of trying "delicacies" for prestigious reasons is the main issue. There is little sustenance to eating things like bat.
On the other side of the coin is the issue with eating endangered animals such as the Chinese pangolin or Chinese giant salamander. Maybe there needs to be a cultural shift where the government promotes (or even enforces) a sense of prestige in boosting the numbers of those native animals. They don't have to be national symbols like the Giant Panda, but the government are the only ones who have the power to make any real change.
I'm not commenting on what different cultures find acceptable to eat from a moral perspective, I've tried lots of different foods in several countries, but when there is a probable link then it's responsible to take action. Whether you think the Chinese government is responsible is another issue.
Careful. I am starting to believe your posts. 
