Controversy Thread part 2: Religious discussion (14 Viewers)

Martin · Sep 10, 2003

Each to his own, gray.

Assume that for everything you don't understand (or we as humans in general), you say that proves God exists, he understands. Assume that for everything I don't understand, I take that to mean a) science is yet to explain it or b) it is beyond explanation to our simple human minds. I find that just as probable.

gray · Sep 10, 2003

As I said before, I'm glad I don't know how God came to be... because if I did... what would be so special about Him!?

Since God created the laws of physics, and the restrictions and dimensions of time, he's not bound by these rules and laws...

think about it...if you were God, and you had to make your own world and your own set of rules to govern that universe... would you choose to be under those rules and limitations?

For this reason, God transcends time, and nothing needed to 'exist before God'

gray · Sep 10, 2003

However the universe began, it appears to be 'fine-tuned' for our existence. If certain physical properties (for example, as I mentioned before, water) were different by the tiniest amounts ,even by about one in ten to the power of sixty, we would not be here. This is about the accuracy needed to hit a square inch target on the other side of the observable universe. The physical constants and laws of nature, are 'just right' for us. Now this doesn't provide a knock-down argument for the existence of God but it is fully consistent with a universe planned by God.

Some people think of science and religion as arguing against eachother, but I don't think this is true. Since it's hard to explain in my own words, i'll let a few scientists explain it for me:

'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein

Many of the greatest scientists in history believed in God: Newton, Boyle, Faraday, Pasteur, Kepler, Copernicus, Galileo, to name but a few.

'Physical laws came into being because there is a Creator who made them.' Prof. Sir Ghillean Prance, Director of Royal Botanic Gardens, Kew

'Science is dealing with things that are given ... awe, wonder and humility before the facts are essential if man is to be in harmony with both his environment and his creator.' Sir John Houghton, Former Director General, Meteorological Office

You can't scientifically prove that God exists...but that's hardly surprising.
Science is the study of the natural world - of nature. Questions about God are questions about whether there is anything other than nature. It's no use going to science, the study of nature, to find out whether there is anything other than nature!

Dj Juve · Sep 10, 2003

this guy....DJ juve....

BloodOnMoral · Sep 10, 2003

Well, that is an interesting point indeed. But you know, I've read many books where the characters were quitting thei belief because they were saying that God turned His face away from them and abandoned them and let them live miserable.

Now I'm not like them. I'm the only one guilty for what happends to me. But you see, IMO the teachers and the priests are those who ruined the belief in God, because they used the faith to gain power.

gray · Sep 10, 2003

How can you call it 'the Christian faith?'

IMHO, if you believe that all that stuff above happened, that all those evolutions happened....then I think that's true faith.

Faith in the power of nothing...the power of nothing to create something. I think it takes less faith to believe in God than it does to believe in the power of nothing.

Science contradicts itself in saying that the Big Bang came from nowhere, since something can't be created from nothing.

Martin · Sep 10, 2003

There's an easy way out of this one actually.

What if the favorable conditions which you have pointed out did in fact decide what kind of life would prosper? What if those conditions steered evolution in that exact direction? And had they been different, maybe life would have been different, top notch suited to those other conditions?

vitoria_Ally · Sep 10, 2003

Since you people moved here :groan:

There you go my reply to your post in other thread:

You will not?
Oh, by saying: there is no God, you can deadly insult eg Catholics.
And more, your current avatar is VERY offensive for Catholics

Just such remark, that even if you're not going to offend people, you can do that very easily, if you dont know their rules

btw: I've read this thread and I think you people really had no enough religion in schools, church etc, cause you're not tired of this :sigh:

Dj Juve · Sep 10, 2003

*somebody's feeling left-out*......

me :down:

gray · Sep 10, 2003

Firstly, if someone was offended by my avatar, they could've mentioned it to me long before I started this thread, and I meant that I don't mean to insult anyone with my comments in this thread

(honest question) why is it offensive?? Since catholics believe in the death and resurrection of Christ for the atonement of human sins, isn't it considered a great victory that it happened? Isn't this an image on the walls of many Catholic buildings, and a symbol worn by many Catholics?

I've had enough of religion... but I haven't had enough of God. Difference

BloodOnMoral · Sep 10, 2003

++ [ originally posted by vitoria_Ally ] ++
Since you people moved here :groan:

There you go my reply to your post in other thread:

You will not?
Oh, by saying: there is no God, you can deadly insult eg Catholics.
And more, your current avatar is VERY offensive for Catholics

Just such remark, that even if you're not going to offend people, you can do that very easily, if you dont know their rules

btw: I've read this thread and I think you people really had no enough religion in schools, church etc, cause you're not tired of this :sigh:

And the reply to this post came at the other place

BloodOnMoral · Sep 10, 2003

Good point indeed. Score for you I might add. If I'd have only been given the main dates and not being stuffed by teachers with their stiffy conceptions, maybe my belief would have been different. Anyway, at least I'm happy that I'm not blaming Him for my fails, since all my life is a failure.

vitoria_Ally · Sep 10, 2003

So you ask me why it is insulting or you replying yourself? Decide

Using religious symbols in Catholicism is wrong, when you use them in wrong places, on wrong purposes.

What was your purpose to put such avatar? Are you Catholic and you want to show your faith in this way?
I guess no, so here you are your answer.

btw: I didnt say the avatar offends me personally, it was just a statement, that you insult Catholics, and you even dont know it.
You said: I dont want to insult people here, I said, you did it by accident, cause you dont know the rules.
Simple to get it?

Not here

gray · Sep 10, 2003

It wasn't God that turned his face away from His people, it was his people that turned away from God. From the time when God rescued his people from Egyptian slavery (see Prince of Egypt, though I feel that the depictiono hardly does justice to what happened), Israel turned their back upon him. Despite all the miraculous signs they saw, and the ways that He saved them from death, they kept making idols and ignoring Him.

So it is with the world today. God tries to speak to His children and reveal Himself to us, but it's us who have turned our faces away from God. By saying that God is ignoring us, is like ...for example... you're driving in your car, and your passenger is trying to talk to you. The problem is, you're talking on a mobile phone, you've got the radio on full blast and you're making a cup of coffee with your hands. Now apart from the fact that you'll crash, the point is that you're too distracted and numb to hear the person speaking to you. So it is with God trying to show Himself to the world. We're too numb and clouded to see Him.

BloodOnMoral · Sep 10, 2003

I hope you won't fight now :scared:

BloodOnMoral · Sep 10, 2003

And what about : not understanding his language ? How do you think that you could convince gazillions of people to stop the wars and listen to God ?

gray · Sep 10, 2003

The reason for putting this as my avatar is to remind myself of what I live for, who I am, and who I stand for, so that whenever I'm posting on these boards, what I say will be worthy of that. Sure, I post junk sometimes, but imagine how bad I'd be if I didn't have this reminder!

"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how ye ought to answer every man." - Colossians 4:6

The salt in this image refers to biblical times, where salt was a purifier and a preservative...

vitoria_Ally · Sep 10, 2003

Nope

I wanted to explain one thing, I did it above, that's all.
And I said, I had enough religion, God, whatever

gray · Sep 10, 2003

Fight? with who!?

Oh.. I hope I didn't seem like i was fighting or arguing with anyone, just trying to explain and justify my beliefs...

It's not really about language. I believe that deep down within, no matter how bad a person seems, that the human foundation is good and holy.

The problem is that because of all the corruption and greed in our hearts, humans have adjusted themselves to ignore the way that they were originally created, and seek evil things.

As for convincing people to stop wars and listen to God, I only wish it were that simple. People are very proud and confident in themselves to know what's best for them. If your television set is broken, who do you send it to for repair? The people who made it, right? Because God created us, and knows how we work and he knows what's best for us, all we have to do is listen...

If we open our eyes and hearts to understand such things, we easily discern that most of the plagues and disasters we are experiencing are caused by mankind.

If we take the single example of animal factory farming, we can come a little closer to understanding our problem.

To create more grazing lands we have burned our rain forests causing the fragile land to erode and cause mud slides, and eventually end up as deserts.

Because of the way we pump antibiotics into these animals, we have created strains of bacteria that are immune to the standard drugs that used to heal us.

And because of the enormous amount of manure, we have polluted our streams and rivers and seas, and brought some very serious diseases with it.

If we care to accept it, we have made animal agriculture a type of idol before God.

Because of the desire for money, we are unconcerned with the damage we are causing to God's good earth.

And because of our desire for more and more flesh to eat, we support our own destruction.

We pray to God for help, yet because we have not turned away from these idols, our land and bodies remain unhealed.

Almost all of our chronic diseases are caused by our diet and lifestyle

We want God to heal us, but we do not want to change our ways of life.

BloodOnMoral · Sep 10, 2003

Human foundation good and holly ? And then, how come so many atrocities are happening every day ? Where from comes this spirit of self destruction and destruction of the others ?

Controversy Thread part 2: Religious discussion (14 Viewers)

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