Controversy Thread part 2: Religious discussion (1 Viewer)

[gray]

++ [ originally posted by BloodOnMoral ] ++
Human foundation good and holly ? And then, how come so many atrocities are happening every day ? Where from comes this spirit of self destruction and destruction of the others ?

From the moment that Satan tempted Adam and Eve to eat the fruit that God forbade them to eat, corruption entered the hearts of men. This was called the original sin, and from then on, man continued to turn his face from God and ignore his commandments, fulfilling his own desires.

Deep down, I think we are good. Normal human instinct is to help people we don't know, we feel sympathy and empathy, and the basics still hold in society (e.g. i know of no society in the world that condones killing people).

The effects of the heart's corruption though, can be seen through all the things that you mentioned. Human beings are the only creatures in the animal kingdom that kill their own kind for no reason.

We think we're so intelligent, that we can make the right decisions and handle the world ourselves... look around you at the state of the world and see where that's gotten you. Compare this with the original state of the Garden of Eden, before sin entered the hearts of men:

Genesis 1:31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good.

And then look what happens:

Genesis 1:1-19 -

1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?"
2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden,
3 but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.'"
4 "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman.
5 "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."
6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.
7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.
8 Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the LORD God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the LORD God among the trees of the garden.
9 But the LORD God called to the man, "Where are you?"
10 He answered, "I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid."
11 And he said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?"
12 The man said, "The woman you put here with me--she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it."
13 Then the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this you have done?" The woman said, "The serpent deceived me, and I ate."
14 So the LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, "Cursed are you above all the livestock and all the wild animals! You will crawl on your belly and you will eat dust all the days of your life.
15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel."
16 To the woman he said, "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."
17 To Adam he said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, 'You must not eat of it,' "Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat of it all the days of your life.
18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you, and you will eat the plants of the field.
19 By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return."

 

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[BloodOnMoral]

I'm sorry if I'll answer you only in an hour, but now my mother is yelling at me to go eat something. So please excuse me until then. Do you mind ?

 

[Slagathor]

I was raised a Christian, so don't get me wrong. But anyone who thinks Adam and Eve were white people who looked just like us is completely mad imo and that's the reason why I don't go to church often. They're too ... conservative..!

If you ask me, Earth wasn't created in 7 days, that number is just a symbol (the number 7 is actually the symbol of completion in the Bible). Adam and Even were probably more hairy than us and considering they lived in the middle-east, I doubt they had a white skin.

About the incest question that I've heard so often before: the bible is a book. In a book, the reader follows the main characters. That does NOT mean that Adam and Eve were the only people created by God, I believe there's even a passage in Genesis that says that their children (don't know their English names) met other people when they started travelling.

I guess I'm trying to say that it's all relative. I've come across people who call themselves 'scientists' and start attempting to tackle Christianity by saying there's no way that Earth could have been created in 7 days and that there's no way 6 billion people could have come from one couple.

Ignorants who take it too literally imo!

 

[BloodOnMoral]

Good point Erik. But the reasons I'm not going to church are pretty different from yours though

 

[gray]

++ [ originally posted by BloodOnMoral ] ++
I'm sorry if I'll answer you only in an hour, but now my mother is yelling at me to go eat something. So please excuse me until then. Do you mind ?

Nah it's cool, i'll talk to ya later then. Good discussion so far

 

[BloodOnMoral]

Indeed, as you expected after all

Well, ok then, but be sure that you'll get some sleep today.

See you.

 

[gray]

++ [ originally posted by BloodOnMoral ] ++
Indeed, as you expected after all

Well, ok then, but be sure that you'll get some sleep today.

See you.

Yup I'll try, thx for ur concern

It's only 11:20, so I'll sleep at about 1... plenty of time for this to carry on...
man, i finish uni at 7pm tomorrow, I wonder how this'll have evolved by then

Cya later!

 

[gray]

++ [ originally posted by Matto ] ++
I'm a Christian, so don't get me wrong. But anyone who thinks Adam and Eve were white people who looked just like us is completely mad imo and that's the reason why I don't go to church often. They're too ... conservative..!

I don't understand your reasoning. Do the first and second sentences go together? Who's too conservative? People who go to church?

I consider myself really lucky, because at my church, they don't make the students go into the boring adult service, but we have different services for students of different ages. I go to a Korean church, but I attend the English Ministry, so everyone there's an Australian in disguise...

I feel sorry for people who have really boring and traditional church services, but ours are lots of fun :thumb:. Our minister's a young guy from Chicago, and he's a really good speaker, funny guy~

Feel free to visit my our site:

http://saesoon.org/ss_em/html/index.html

Please listen to last Sunday's sermon to hear what our services are like, our pastor's actually quite funny~

http://www.saesoontv.com/em/sermons/emS030907Eddie.wma

 

[Slagathor]

++ [ originally posted by gray ] ++
I don't understand your reasoning. Do the first and second sentences go together? Who's too conservative? People who go to church?

Well you ARE really lucky. Here in protestant Holland, churches are very strict. Ministers too, think along the lines of those English judges with the wigs kind of strict

 

[gray]

++ [ originally posted by Matto ] ++


Well you ARE really lucky. Here in protestant Holland, churches are very strict. Ministers too, think along the lines of those English judges with the wigs kind of strict

You're kidding!

This is my minister (the one on the right)

 

[gray]

Inside the service:

That's my brother on the guitar, he plays electric sometimes too, but that day another guy was playing elec

 

[gray]

After service:

 

[Dj Juve]

so similar to mine

 

[gray]

Seriously, listen to the media file, he's one of the most gifted speakers i've seen :thumb:

He should be speaking in front of 10,000 people, not 100...

 

[gray]

Hey Giulz, I'm extra-tired tonight, gonna go sleep, it's 12:37am here...

sorry I didn't wait for ya, we'll continue this when i get back tomorrow

meanwhile, that gives u plenty of time to post ur thoughts and questions~

goodnight y'all

 

[JuveCampione]

is this kind of discussion allowed here?

i'm an atheist

 

[Anders]

I contend that we are all atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

 

[Martin]

gray, the speech sounds nice.

So what you grab a couple of beers after service?

 

[BloodOnMoral]

You know, the fact is that here priests are very friendly too, but it sounds so fake whenever they are telling you not to drink or smoke, because it's such a pity in front of God, and then theyare doing exactly the same things :groan:

(Totally off-topic : gray, you and your gf are looking amazingly cute in the new picture !!! )

 

[BloodOnMoral]

++ [ originally posted by Kaliman ] ++
I contend that we are all atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

I'm getting your point too, it makes sense somehow, but doesn't it seem to be a little ... caustic vision ? Or maybe, a more pasimistic one ?

Maybe it's just a realistic one and I'm the one who needs sleep