[CL] Juventus vs Arsenal (6 Viewers)

[Get_to_bed_Chaz]

I'd agree Zlatan was awful but you can understand Capello keeping him on ahead of Trezeguet cause Zlatan is the more likely of the two to create a moment of magic. However, to suggest playing three people up front is audacious. Arsenal would have ripped Juve apart on the counter attack if Juve tried three up front, Capello ain't stupid. Also, when Juve were down to nine men, three up front would have definitely left the tie at three or four, at least Juve have a chance now at the 'fortress'.

 

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[Bjerknes]

Yeah but like I say, I believe Juventus have for a long time struggled to compete against English teams, not just in the past two years under Capello. Apart from the year of the drug-taking, Lippi had some very lean years in Europe, yet he reserves hero status.

Lean years? That great tactician guided us to four Champions League Finals. Moreover, he also led a convincing team most of the time..

And as the poster before me stated, please take your drug talk to Magistrate Guarinello because he'll take anything he can find

EDIT: His record does not prove him to be awful in Europe. He has won the competition before and everybody seems to be forgetting Juve were nothing in Europe in the few years before Capello arrived, and at least they are safe in the last eight, which is not great progress, but it is not a step back at least, unlike what people try to make out

Capello won the competition once over a decade ago with one of the best Milan sides in history. Juventus was not "nothing" in Europe before Capello came along...don't you remember what happened in 2003? The squad we have now is much better than that of 2003, so I'm not sure what you're talking about here. Seems like you are giving Capello too much credit just to simply enhance the glory for Dial.

 

[Rami]

I'd agree Zlatan was awful but you can understand Capello keeping him on ahead of Trezeguet cause Zlatan is the more likely of the two to create a moment of magic. However, to suggest playing three people up front is audacious. Arsenal would have ripped Juve apart on the counter attack if Juve tried three up front, Capello ain't stupid. Also, when Juve were down to nine men, three up front would have definitely left the tie at three or four, at least Juve have a chance now at the 'fortress'.

He didn't know that 2 would be sent off now did he?? And besides Viera wasn't doing anything he was just prancing around the middle...Pulling him out wouldn't have differed. And as for Zlatan....NOT...Moments of Magic are more likely to come from Zebina.

Anyways I was talking about the desicions ON Tuesday....Capello has been having stupid desicions all season long, his men have been saving his ass all season long, not to mention a particular German Keeper....

 

[Get_to_bed_Chaz]

Its all well and good to say that Lippi took the club to four finals, but as far as I am concerned, there is no honour in losing three finals, it counts for about as much as not qualifying at all. Capello has had two seasons, and in that time he has got into the last eight, whilst maintaining solid league form. The squad now is not that great at all, as whilst Juve have the best starting XI in the world, and back-up like Balazaretti, Abbiati, Del Piero and Mutu, there is nothing else beyond that, and therefore when there are some injuries or suspensions, Juve are bound to become unstuck. I am baffled as to how you can say that I give Capello to much credit for guiding Juve to surely two back to back Scudetti, when you seem to want to credit that to Lippi, who during his last season led Juve to an abysmal third place. He won one Champions League, when, fair enough, I'll drop the drugs claim, there wasnt as much competition in Europe. Now, you have Barca and Milan, but then all the above averages sides are capable of getting results, such as Lyon and Benfica. I though Juventus were a more sensible side than their Spanish counterparts, but whilst Barca kept faith in Rijkjard after he got knocked out early last year, and he delivered them the title, as well as a potential European success this year, everybody here jumps on Capello, and not the players or any other individual, just because they were outclassed in one match. Capello has surely earnt the right to be trusted by Juve fans for all that he has achieved already, and why can't you have faith he will get it right next year?

 

[engonga]

Its all well and good to say that Lippi took the club to four finals, but as far as I am concerned, there is no honour in losing three finals, it counts for about as much as not qualifying at all. Capello has had two seasons, and in that time he has got into the last eight, whilst maintaining solid league form. The squad now is not that great at all, as whilst Juve have the best starting XI in the world, and back-up like Balazaretti, Abbiati, Del Piero and Mutu, there is nothing else beyond that, and therefore when there are some injuries or suspensions, Juve are bound to become unstuck. I am baffled as to how you can say that I give Capello to much credit for guiding Juve to surely two back to back Scudetti, when you seem to want to credit that to Lippi, who during his last season led Juve to an abysmal third place. He won one Champions League, when, fair enough, I'll drop the drugs claim, there wasnt as much competition in Europe. Now, you have Barca and Milan, but then all the above averages sides are capable of getting results, such as Lyon and Benfica. I though Juventus were a more sensible side than their Spanish counterparts, but whilst Barca kept faith in Rijkjard after he got knocked out early last year, and he delivered them the title, as well as a potential European success this year, everybody here jumps on Capello, and not the players or any other individual, just because they were outclassed in one match. Capello has surely earnt the right to be trusted by Juve fans for all that he has achieved already, and why can't you have faith he will get it right next year?

personally,i trust capello in the serie a games,his 4-4-2 works very good and the work he has done keeping the team first in the serie a from his arrival till now is great,no one can blame him .
but teams in europe are not like teams in italy.
the tactics that work in italy dont seem to work in europe.
it was not only tuesday that juve has played a bad match in the champions.
we had bad games against liverpool,werder,bayern and i dont think it was always the players who played bad,capello also is responsible of this performance.

 

[Get_to_bed_Chaz]

I agree with a lot of what you said Engonga, it is good to hear somebody talk with a lot of rationality. I understand that when the team play badly, or the tactics don't succeed, the manager has to shoulder a portion of the blame. My point was that I believe that surely if the manager can be blamed for defeat, he can be praised for success. I think it is ridiculous that people just judge from the European lacklustre showings that Capello is a bad manager and should be forced out if Juve don't win it. The reason I think this is unfair is that Lippi was always treated with a degree of patience with the fans, even when the going got really tough, and I don't understand why Capello can't be reserved that kind of treatment. He made mistakes in the first leg against Werder, and learnt from them, there is no saying that the same cannot happen again. I personally think that Juve are out, but there is no denying that Juve are almost a different side when Nedved is on side. If he steps up a gear then Juve will be able to attack with more freedom, and stand a chance.

I would also like to point out that an in-form Arsenal are on of the hardest teams in the world to tactically outclass, and this has to be taken into consideration. If Capello went all out attack at Highbury, the Gooners would have caned them on the counter attack, and the deficit could be much wider. At least a relatively defesive, albeit inept display, keeps Juves chances alive. If you want to question Capello, surely his lack of control over Camoranesi was of more significance as a managerial flaw?

EDIT: Anyhow I am off to bed now. I have a mate who told me about these forums, and said it would be a mistake to try to defend Capello, I am guessing he was right. Anyhow thank you for the warm welcome, and even though I didn't gain any support, I have enjoyed the debate. Hope nobody got personally offended by any comments I made, and tomorrow will represent a fresh chance for me to try and win people over about Capello. Thanks!

 

[engonga]

I agree with a lot of what you said Engonga, it is good to hear somebody talk with a lot of rationality. I understand that when the team play badly, or the tactics don't succeed, the manager has to shoulder a portion of the blame. My point was that I believe that surely if the manager can be blamed for defeat, he can be praised for success. I think it is ridiculous that people just judge from the European lacklustre showings that Capello is a bad manager and should be forced out if Juve don't win it. The reason I think this is unfair is that Lippi was always treated with a degree of patience with the fans, even when the going got really tough, and I don't understand why Capello can't be reserved that kind of treatment. He made mistakes in the first leg against Werder, and learnt from them, there is no saying that the same cannot happen again. I personally think that Juve are out, but there is no denying that Juve are almost a different side when Nedved is on side. If he steps up a gear then Juve will be able to attack with more freedom, and stand a chance.

I would also like to point out that an in-form Arsenal are on of the hardest teams in the world to tactically outclass, and this has to be taken into consideration. If Capello went all out attack at Highbury, the Gooners would have caned them on the counter attack, and the deficit could be much wider. At least a relatively defesive, albeit inept display, keeps Juves chances alive. If you want to question Capello, surely his lack of control over Camoranesi was of more significance as a managerial flaw?

for a lot of ppl here capello is a bad manager because he begins always with zlatan ahead of del piero,we have a lot of del piero lovers here.
sometimes,they try to hide the reason they dont like capello for saying its about tactics or boring style but its all about this story of del piero-zlatan.

 

[Vinman]

Everyone needs to stop blaming Capello.

He is the best manager in the world. He bought to Juve the best defender in the world and he took Juve from third to first in the space of a season. I bet Del Piero loves being kept on his feet by Fabio deep down. He has been rejuvinated under him. Obviously Juve were crap on Tuesday but they were outclassed, the tactics worked fine against every other team this season, it was just a matter of meeting Arsenal at their unstoppable best.

Fine, get rid of Capello. But who do you want to replace him?

where to begin to correct you ??

- Moggi bought Canna, not CapeLOL

- Juve was in first place the previous 2 seasons winning 2 scudetti

- Del Piero should have starting since the beginning of the season...the team plays more as a cohesive unit with him

- if you watched any of our games this season, you will see that the tactics had NOTHING to do with our victories. We won on talent alone, and lots of luck

- I am a bit of an Arsenal fan, and can say that Juve should have easily handled them with the talent that we have, and Arsenal missing top players and looking to their youth. I wouldnt say the Arsenal are unstoppable yet, give it another season

- I would love to have Wenger here at Juve....now there's a great coach !!!

 

[JCK]

Where do these Capello and Zlatan lovers come from every now and then?

 

[Batigol]

i am positive, we will do it.

 

[Desmond]

Capello has surely earnt the right to be trusted by Juve fans for all that he has achieved already, and why can't you have faith he will get it right next year?

Correction, Capello is getting the credit for what the team has achieved, he has alot less to do with it than you think.

 

[del pietro]

yeh me too.. i think juve can really do it.. we always seem to perform under a lot of pressure.. remember barca?? real madrid??

 

[sidd]

while the job at hand is bloddy daunting, i dont understand the negative vibe goin on around here. i`ll be the first to admit that on tuesday its the worst i`ve seen Juve ever play....period.
But....C`mon, 2 goals.....and not let Ars put in one....to level the game........Its certainly not out of Juve`s hands.
Obviously theres gotta be alot of thinking by Cap......with no other option than all out attack from the start....get the 2 goals.....hold and then try and hit ars on the break.
kEEP the faith guys, its time to pray for a miracle.

Dp - Neddy : We need the performance of a lifetime

 

[Cronios]

we will concede and we need for 4 goals in 90',
all hope is lost, if you wont you can live with those chances for qualify illusions,
but in the end you may suffer more watching Blasi or Gianni to get owned all over the field...

 

[serfaraaz]

i dont think the tie is over we can beat arsenal but we have to mark cesc fabregas well because neither emerson or vieria closed him down which resulted in two goals for arsenal

 

[northbank]

I'm still struggling to see why you guys are so down on Zlatan about tuesday's performance. I watched the game again just to check I wasn't wrong, but he was one of your better players.

He was dropping off, switching left and right and trying to make things happen. He was also one of your only players whose head didn't drop when you went a goal down. His touch deserted him a few times and what he tried didn't always come off, but he worked hard for the team.

The reason the ball kept coming back after he had it was because he had no support from the midfield or Trezeguet. He had the ball several times and was looking around for a pass, nobody was coming from the wing, from central midfield and Trezeguet was providing no movement from upfront. By the time a Juve player had made themselves available he already had 3/4 Arsenal players surrounding him.

When the ball came to him in the air, he won a few headers and where was Trezeguet for the knock-down? He was busy standing offside not even watching the play. Where were Emerson and Vieira? they were staring into the crowd.

Obviously alot of you don't like his performances this year, but that's what happens with young players; they have difficult second seasons.

Take for example Toure. First season, Arsenal unbeaten; second season, very shakey, few mistakes that cost us goals. This year he has been our best player. You have to show some faith in the younger players when their levels drop and as you all seem to want the age of your squad reduced, you'll experience this many times in the future.

Anyway, I'd say that the tie is far from over and our players will be thinking the same thing. I won't be in Turin, but hopefully it will be a good game.

 

[Maresca]

for a lot of ppl here capello is a bad manager because he begins always with zlatan ahead of del piero,we have a lot of del piero lovers here.
sometimes,they try to hide the reason they dont like capello for saying its about tactics or boring style but its all about this story of del piero-zlatan.

what the hell are you talking about once again. is not it enough to blame Capello that we are now the idiots in europe? it not it enough that the performence of juve in europe was a shame for a club like juve and for whole Italy? is not it enough that we got trashed everytime we play away in europe against big teams??
and you still say that we do not like capello because of starting Zlatan??

 

[Brixity]

Tuesay's match utterly embarrased me. I watched it with a truck load of Arse fans with Man Utd haters supporting us. They thought we'd pull it of but we shitted. I'll now watch the return leg ALONE. I think it's good Vieira wont b there 4 some reason.

I'm finding it difficult to have even the slightest of optimism coz u have 2 remember that Gunners r thriving 4 their 1st CL semi final, which seems more in reach than ever. They sure will give us hell 4 that Semi place.

 

[Temimi]

Buffon.
Cheilllini thuram cannavaro zambrotta
nedved blasi emerson mutu
treze (any1 but ibra)
guys dont u see that ibrahimovic is killing us he is cutting any possible attack

 

[Brixity]

I just read Thuram's comments about the 2nd leg :
His last statement :"We know what we have to do; they are strong, but we are Juve.” reminded me of Buffon saying the exact same thing in the season we drew a game ( cant remember with who) with a few games to go such that we were written of for the Scudetto. We however won the scudetto on the last day from Inter that season.

I wish I felt as hopeful