[CL] JUVENTUS 1-3 Barcelona (June 6th, 2015) (4 Viewers)

[Red]

Again. It's nothing to do with Messi not being an amazing player. It's more to do with Italian football being more tactical and cynical defensively. Against any decent Italian defense, someone would bite the bullet in those 40 yards he ran, and foul him. 5 players had the opportunity and chose to try to win the ball without fouling.

We see Marchisio, Bonucci, Chiellini, etc take tactical yellows all the time stopping counters and players running towards our goal. The same will happen with Messi. He won't be allowed to run like that. And the same holds true for most Italian defences.

It's something I've been thinking about in the last few days.

Juve need to be really careful to avoid silly yellow cards against Barca to make sure that they are able to commit important fouls as required.

A silly booking can lead to having to make the choice between getting sent off or allowing a dangerous attack to continue.

 

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[Post Ironic]

It's something I've been thinking about in the last few days.

Juve need to be really careful to avoid silly yellow cards against Barca to make sure that they are able to commit important fouls as required.

A silly booking can lead to having to make the choice between getting sent off or allowing a dangerous attack to continue.

This is more so what I'm worried about.

Messi, Suarez, Neymar and even Iniesta running at our defense past the 50-60 minute mark if players like Marchisio, Vidal, Chiellini are already on a yellow. There won't really be a chance to take the tactical foul and get your booking. We certainly can't afford to go a man down.

 

[Klin]

I hate that guy too, but trust me, I watch La Liga. Nothing is worse than Neymar and especially Alba. They are even worse than Icardi ffs. Disgusting players. You'll all see why on Saturday.

They're all cunts. From Ter Stegen to their Kit Manager.

 

[Red]

This is more so what I'm worried about.

Messi, Suarez, Neymar and even Iniesta running at our defense past the 50-60 minute mark if players like Marchisio, Vidal, Chiellini are already on a yellow. There won't really be a chance to take the tactical foul and get your booking. We certainly can't afford to go a man down.

Wouldn't be that worried about Iniesta.

Suarez is less likely to be running at the defence than beyond it, so a foul on him would probably be a red card regardless.

With Messi and Neymar you have to hope that you can get close to them before they start running and, hopefully, when they are a long way from goal. That way you are more likely to get away with committing fouls without getting a card.

 

[blondu]

I don't get this at all. Messi has scored similar goals.. I even prefer his goal against Getafe.

they motivated the importance of the goal (final)...fuck them, you should've seen their studio after juve won at home vs real...mourning

 

[Bianconero_Aus]

I hate that guy too, but trust me, I watch La Liga. Nothing is worse than Neymar and especially Alba. They are even worse than Icardi ffs. Disgusting players. You'll all see why on Saturday.

Hopefully Chiellini paralyses Neymar.

 

[blondu]

...and for people whining about the whole Messi vs Ronaldo thing...

We just played Real Madrid and Ronaldo. We're now playing Barca and Messi.

It's obvious comparisons are going to be made between the two, and how easy/hard it will be for our defense and mid to shut each of them down.

I think our defense is better suited to shutting Messi down. I could be wrong, but it's my opinion his dribbling style, and non-aerial/set-piece prowess helps our defense out. Our defense does well against players running at it, trying to dribble it, trying to find through balls, incisive passes, etc.

Where our defense struggles is against lightning fast counters (I doubt we will play a possession game with high line to allow for these) which Real Madrid is generally better at than Barca (Neymar being the obvious counterpoint to this), and aerially against crosses and set pieces, which is why we've had trouble stopping Ronaldo from getting chances against us over the last 2 years. I don't see Messi's strengths as working against our defence's weaknesses. This isn't to say he won't provide an immense challenge for our defense, as our players haven't face anyone yet of his incredible skill, but it will be strength vs strength, in terms of Messi's strengths against our defensive strengths... whereas Madrid has attacking strengths that directly works against our weakness in defense.

Just my two cents.

real played like shit in the last 20 mins when they needed to combine more and play ronaldo, instead they went for high balls for bale/chicharito. barca won't panic and will tiki taka the shit out of us in min 89 if they will trail..we have slow paced cbs. the big benatia/boateng falled. it is up to our mid the stop the runs from the midfield. our mid will make or break the game. i cannot ask chiello to have the same pace as messi..

 

[Hust]

Wouldn't be that worried about Iniesta.

Suarez is less likely to be running at the defence than beyond it, so a foul on him would probably be a red card regardless.

With Messi and Neymar you have to hope that you can get close to them before they start running and, hopefully, when they are a long way from goal. That way you are more likely to get away with committing fouls without getting a card.

Quick pressure on Iniesta.

If Neymar/Messi receive the ball far enough away from goal I would think doubling down with a 2nd defender/midfielder immediately will be enough to scuffle their attack. Our midfield (including Pirlo) are going to need to exert an extraordinary amount of energy tracking and putting pressure on anyone with the ball in midfield or the early section or our defensive third.

We can win this but if our midfield is misfiring in any way, we won't. Those 3 attackers will punish our back line eventually if they are given space.

I remember Benzema giving us some scares when he found space. I don't want to think about these 3.

 

[Hydde]

I have 2 major concerns:
1- Pirlo´s form: He must be on his day, not buts of if. If he fails we all fail. Our gameplan will go to shid and we will have to reshuffle midway.

2-Cards: Since i think that the front 3 of Barcelona are more skilled than our defenders... i fear us getting too many yellows which can affect our gameplay..or maybe worst...getting an early red card because of too many fouls on them..

 

[Red]

I assume this will be the line up:

Buffon

Lichtsteiner-Bonucci-Chiellini-Evra

Marchisio-Pirlo-Pogba

Vidal

Tevez-Morata

--------------------------------

Buffon

Lichtsteiner-Bonucci-Chiellini-Evra

Marchisio-Vidal-Pirlo-Pogba

Tevez-Morata​

Like the games against Real Madrid, when Juve are being aggressive they will go with the 4-3-1-2 and when they drop off it'll be 4-4-2.

The question will be just how bold Juve are prepared to be.

With the 4-3-1-2, you can put huge pressure on Barca's midfield and make it extremely difficult for Barca to work the ball forward. The danger with that is that you will leave at least one of Alves and Alba quite free and you will need the defence to push quite high up to maintain the proper shape of the team. Barca showed against Bayern that they are far more prepared to play the ball long than they used to be, but Juve have to back their defence to deal with those long balls better than Bayern did. Bayern dealt with them horrendously.

With the 4-4-2, you are letting Barca have more comfortable possession in deep areas and focusing more on denying them space in key areas.

The danger is likely to come in the transitional moments between the shapes. If Juve press up in 4-3-1-2 and get it wrong, there will be huge danger if Barca go quickly and attack before Juve can get the men back behind the ball and into the 4-4-2.

Pressing with the 4-3-1-2 would feel an awful lot more secure if you had Marchisio as the spare man behind the midfield rather than Pirlo, but I can't imagine Allegri dropping Pirlo for such a big game. Similarly, one could argue that Barzagli would be much more comfortable playing against Barca's type of forward than either Bonucci or Chiellini, but I can't see a change being made there either.


One change I might make to the posted team, would be to swap Pogba and Marchisio. I back Marchisio to contain either Iniesta or Rakitic, but I'd fancy Pogba's chances of dominating Iniesta in the way that he probably couldn't do to Rakitic due to Rakitic not being a weakling. Shifting Pogba to the right may also open up the chance of getting crosses from the left to him coming in at the back post against Mascherano and Alba and those guys wouldn't have a hope of stopping Pogba in the air. On the other side, Pique is obviously a big guy and Alves is better than Alba at putting in a challnge to put an opponent off, even if he isn't going to win a header.

This Barca is harder to stop than any Barca we've seen since Eto'o left them because they've finally got a centre-forward who runs in behind and opens up space for others. When Allegri's Milan were doing well against Barca, the centre-halves never had to worry about anyone running beyond them, so it was much easier for them to control the space between the defence and the midfield.

 

[Juventus 32]

Allegri-Del Piero-Nedved playing together

http://tvron.net/rai-1

 

[Ventus]

I have 2 major concerns:
1- Pirlo´s form: He must be on his day, not buts of if. If he fails we all fail. Our gameplan will go to shid and we will have to reshuffle midway.

2-Cards: Since i think that the front 3 of Barcelona are more skilled than our defenders... i fear us getting too many yellows which can affect our gameplay..or maybe worst...getting an early red card because of too many fouls on them..

3. Cheilini going brain dead again, he's done that in every tie since we qualified from the group stage:

1. Dortmund slip
2. Monaco slip, then handball
3. Real Madrid, needless penalty

im more worried about Cheilini then anything else

 

[Juliano13]

Mario Jardel was playing in mediocre leagues that entire time for Porto, Gala, and Sporting. Are you fucking kidding with this example? It means fuck all.

My point exactly.

- - - Updated - - -

I assume this will be the line up:

Buffon

Lichtsteiner-Bonucci-Chiellini-Evra

Marchisio-Pirlo-Pogba

Vidal

Tevez-Morata

--------------------------------

Buffon

Lichtsteiner-Bonucci-Chiellini-Evra

Marchisio-Vidal-Pirlo-Pogba

Tevez-Morata​

Like the games against Real Madrid, when Juve are being aggressive they will go with the 4-3-1-2 and when they drop off it'll be 4-4-2.

The question will be just how bold Juve are prepared to be.

With the 4-3-1-2, you can put huge pressure on Barca's midfield and make it extremely difficult for Barca to work the ball forward. The danger with that is that you will leave at least one of Alves and Alba quite free and you will need the defence to push quite high up to maintain the proper shape of the team. Barca showed against Bayern that they are far more prepared to play the ball long than they used to be, but Juve have to back their defence to deal with those long balls better than Bayern did. Bayern dealt with them horrendously.

With the 4-4-2, you are letting Barca have more comfortable possession in deep areas and focusing more on denying them space in key areas.

The danger is likely to come in the transitional moments between the shapes. If Juve press up in 4-3-1-2 and get it wrong, there will be huge danger if Barca go quickly and attack before Juve can get the men back behind the ball and into the 4-4-2.

Pressing with the 4-3-1-2 would feel an awful lot more secure if you had Marchisio as the spare man behind the midfield rather than Pirlo, but I can't imagine Allegri dropping Pirlo for such a big game. Similarly, one could argue that Barzagli would be much more comfortable playing against Barca's type of forward than either Bonucci or Chiellini, but I can't see a change being made there either.


One change I might make to the posted team, would be to swap Pogba and Marchisio. I back Marchisio to contain either Iniesta or Rakitic, but I'd fancy Pogba's chances of dominating Iniesta in the way that he probably couldn't do to Rakitic due to Rakitic not being a weakling. Shifting Pogba to the right may also open up the chance of getting crosses from the left to him coming in at the back post against Mascherano and Alba and those guys wouldn't have a hope of stopping Pogba in the air. On the other side, Pique is obviously a big guy and Alves is better than Alba at putting in a challnge to put an opponent off, even if he isn't going to win a header.

This Barca is harder to stop than any Barca we've seen since Eto'o left them because they've finally got a centre-forward who runs in behind and opens up space for others. When Allegri's Milan were doing well against Barca, the centre-halves never had to worry about anyone running beyond them, so it was much easier for them to control the space between the defence and the midfield.

I agree with most of your analysis. What do you think about 3-5-2 against Barca?

 

[blondu]

that 3-5-2 will transform in a 5 defence line when barca holds the ball (imo) .. a 4-4-2 formation (4-1-3-2) is the right way to go.

 

[Goodfella]

I'm afraid this might end up like Euro 2012.

 

[Hydde]

I'm afraid this might end up like Euro 2012.

Well, the formula is there:
-The same defense that got owned in that FINAL basically. (chiello, bon..specially chiello)
-Now add Messi neymar and suarez tot he equation, which is basically an upgrade from that euro spanish team.

I hope that we will win with grinta and good tactical awareness.


BUT also , that Italy team was decimated as fuk...and also i think this juve team is better.

Its difficult to predict

 

[blondu]

juventus is twice the team italy had in 2012

 

[Post Ironic]

Well, the formula is there:
-The same defense that got owned in that FINAL basically. (chiello, bon..specially chiello)
-Now add Messi neymar and suarez tot he equation, which is basically an upgrade from that euro spanish team.

I hope that we will win with grinta and good tactical awareness.


BUT also , that Italy team was decimated as fuk...and also i think this juve team is better.

Its difficult to predict

What?

This team is 10x the team that Italy was in 2012.

Italy had no Tevez, no Morata, no Vidal, no Pogba, no Lichtsteiner, no Evra... and Chiellini was injured (thigh) going into the final and had to be sub'd off 20 min in.

Aside from that, this Barca is much better than that Spain.

This isn't at all similar.

 

[Hydde]

Spoiler

I assume this will be the line up:

Buffon

Lichtsteiner-Bonucci-Chiellini-Evra

Marchisio-Pirlo-Pogba

Vidal

Tevez-Morata

--------------------------------

Buffon

Lichtsteiner-Bonucci-Chiellini-Evra

Marchisio-Vidal-Pirlo-Pogba

Tevez-Morata​

Like the games against Real Madrid, when Juve are being aggressive they will go with the 4-3-1-2 and when they drop off it'll be 4-4-2.

The question will be just how bold Juve are prepared to be.

With the 4-3-1-2, you can put huge pressure on Barca's midfield and make it extremely difficult for Barca to work the ball forward. The danger with that is that you will leave at least one of Alves and Alba quite free and you will need the defence to push quite high up to maintain the proper shape of the team. Barca showed against Bayern that they are far more prepared to play the ball long than they used to be, but Juve have to back their defence to deal with those long balls better than Bayern did. Bayern dealt with them horrendously.

With the 4-4-2, you are letting Barca have more comfortable possession in deep areas and focusing more on denying them space in key areas.

The danger is likely to come in the transitional moments between the shapes. If Juve press up in 4-3-1-2 and get it wrong, there will be huge danger if Barca go quickly and attack before Juve can get the men back behind the ball and into the 4-4-2.

Pressing with the 4-3-1-2 would feel an awful lot more secure if you had Marchisio as the spare man behind the midfield rather than Pirlo, but I can't imagine Allegri dropping Pirlo for such a big game. Similarly, one could argue that Barzagli would be much more comfortable playing against Barca's type of forward than either Bonucci or Chiellini, but I can't see a change being made there either.


One change I might make to the posted team, would be to swap Pogba and Marchisio. I back Marchisio to contain either Iniesta or Rakitic, but I'd fancy Pogba's chances of dominating Iniesta in the way that he probably couldn't do to Rakitic due to Rakitic not being a weakling. Shifting Pogba to the right may also open up the chance of getting crosses from the left to him coming in at the back post against Mascherano and Alba and those guys wouldn't have a hope of stopping Pogba in the air. On the other side, Pique is obviously a big guy and Alves is better than Alba at putting in a challnge to put an opponent off, even if he isn't going to win a header.

This Barca is harder to stop than any Barca we've seen since Eto'o left them because they've finally got a centre-forward who runs in behind and opens up space for others. When Allegri's Milan were doing well against Barca, the centre-halves never had to worry about anyone running beyond them, so it was much easier for them to control the space between the defence and the midfield

.

good post

- - - Updated - - -

What?

This team is 10x the team that Italy was in 2012.

Italy had no Tevez, no Morata, no Vidal, no Pogba, no Lichtsteiner, no Evra... and Chiellini was injured (thigh) going into the final and had to be sub'd off 20 min in.

Aside from that, this Barca is much better than that Spain.

This isn't at all similar.

juventus is twice the team italy had in 2012

Read.

I said this Juventus is better than that italy, but we have the same slow CBs. Basically.

Also, this barca team is way better than that spain team. Italy should have never lost that horribly to begin with. Now they have a way more compact team

 

[Fint]

This is a cringy pre-match comment to make, but whatever the outcome i'll be so proud of this team.

Winning the double and reaching the final is an amazing achievement in itself.

I'll be drowning my sorrows or getting rightly fuckered either way