I do not disagree with this at all. My whole problem was with the "Robbed" part. I never said you shouldn't be upset about the defeat we all are. No holier than thou attitude involved at all.
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[CL] JUVENTUS 1-3 Barcelona (June 6th, 2015) (50 Viewers)
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I don't care for your respect and as far as this discussion goes I am still keeping it civil while you are acting like a kid throwing a tantrum.
Where did I say something no one ever said as fact? that other people on this forum think it was a soft call? Read back a couple of pages and you'll find it. I am not the one who claimed its an objective clear fact that its a penalty.
Or is it that "Robbed" implies that something was yours and was then stolen from you? This is how the language works. I don't know what to say to that other than if you know what being robbed means you would agree that it doesn't suit the context.
Moreover, regarding the second bold part. At 1-1 both teams do not have an equal chance of winning the game because leading up to that point the game was almost one sided and it is more likely that it will continue to be so. To be clear, I am not denying that there is a possibility we could have won the game have the penalty been given. I am denying that it decides the game in our favor given the difference in quality of performance. It increases our odds but doesnt decide our victory the same way not getting the Penalty and foul decrease our odds but do not decide our loss.
Having said that not getting a 2-1 lead is again far from getting robbed. This was a close call as evidenced by the wide disagreement between people about it. Its better to get it than not to ofcourse but I wouldn't go nuts over not receiving a soft call. If a Barca fan had said its clearly not a penalty he would be equally ridiculed. So take that out of your argument.
The foul was clearer and imo should have been given and that would have affected the course of the game (doesn't mean we would necessarily win). The ref made an error which made it 2-1 for them instead of 1-1; an outcome that was very likely given the performance level of each team upto that point. This is again a far cry from robbing us.
I am much more aligned with Kieselguhr Kid's view than yours.
Where did I say something no one ever said as fact? that other people on this forum think it was a soft call? Read back a couple of pages and you'll find it. I am not the one who claimed its an objective clear fact that its a penalty.
Or is it that "Robbed" implies that something was yours and was then stolen from you? This is how the language works. I don't know what to say to that other than if you know what being robbed means you would agree that it doesn't suit the context.
Moreover, regarding the second bold part. At 1-1 both teams do not have an equal chance of winning the game because leading up to that point the game was almost one sided and it is more likely that it will continue to be so. To be clear, I am not denying that there is a possibility we could have won the game have the penalty been given. I am denying that it decides the game in our favor given the difference in quality of performance. It increases our odds but doesnt decide our victory the same way not getting the Penalty and foul decrease our odds but do not decide our loss.
Having said that not getting a 2-1 lead is again far from getting robbed. This was a close call as evidenced by the wide disagreement between people about it. Its better to get it than not to ofcourse but I wouldn't go nuts over not receiving a soft call. If a Barca fan had said its clearly not a penalty he would be equally ridiculed. So take that out of your argument.
The foul was clearer and imo should have been given and that would have affected the course of the game (doesn't mean we would necessarily win). The ref made an error which made it 2-1 for them instead of 1-1; an outcome that was very likely given the performance level of each team upto that point. This is again a far cry from robbing us.
I am much more aligned with Kieselguhr Kid's view than yours.
if these things you did say are really from others, then talk about it with them. why are you bringing stuff some other posters said pages ago into the discussion with me? what are you trying to prove that way anyway?
we were "robbed" by the simple fact that the ref didnt whistle 2 game deciding decisions in our favor when he should have done so (they were stolen from us), nothing to do with buying ref etc. also, the penalty wasnt a 50/50. the disagreement among people doesent mean its a close call. thats the same as saying you are wrong so many times with your posts that your opinion shouldnt count. so basing your opinion on others is wrong.
it either is a penalty or not - Pogba was taken down in the box when he was about to turn and shoot - clear penalty, if you disagree lets stop here.
and i never said we would win. but lets say we didnt get the penalty but got the other foul instead. Barca wouldnt get that counter and our chances would still be equal (yes equal, its 1-1 with 20 minutes to go in a CL final). Allegri would have a much better situation to try with Pereyra or Sturaro (or even Llorente) to change something tactically and try to win the game.
ill stop now as i see no point in this.
to conclude: penalty not given at 1-1, foul not given that lead to a 2-1 - robbery
we were "robbed" by the simple fact that the ref didnt whistle 2 game deciding decisions in our favor when he should have done so (they were stolen from us), nothing to do with buying ref etc. also, the penalty wasnt a 50/50. the disagreement among people doesent mean its a close call. thats the same as saying you are wrong so many times with your posts that your opinion shouldnt count. so basing your opinion on others is wrong.
it either is a penalty or not - Pogba was taken down in the box when he was about to turn and shoot - clear penalty, if you disagree lets stop here.
and i never said we would win. but lets say we didnt get the penalty but got the other foul instead. Barca wouldnt get that counter and our chances would still be equal (yes equal, its 1-1 with 20 minutes to go in a CL final). Allegri would have a much better situation to try with Pereyra or Sturaro (or even Llorente) to change something tactically and try to win the game.
ill stop now as i see no point in this.
to conclude: penalty not given at 1-1, foul not given that lead to a 2-1 - robbery
![Juventino[RUS]](https://www.juventuz.com/data/avatars/m/5/5409.jpg?1650619365){kind=avatar}
![Juventino[RUS]](https://www.juventuz.com/data/avatars/s/5/5409.jpg?1650619365){kind=avatar}
We were not robbed?
Look at his right hand, he's doing everything to not let Pogba to stop that ball, He pulls him away, on the corners/set pieces its normal practice when players push each other, embrace each other, but not for the open play, it's a clear penalty, what was the point for Pogba to dive there or what he did according to you? He could easily convert this pass into the goal if not only Alves and his grab
Look at his right hand, he's doing everything to not let Pogba to stop that ball, He pulls him away, on the corners/set pieces its normal practice when players push each other, embrace each other, but not for the open play, it's a clear penalty, what was the point for Pogba to dive there or what he did according to you? He could easily convert this pass into the goal if not only Alves and his grab
Juventino[RUS];4967949 said:
We were not robbed?
Look at his right hand, he's doing everything to not let Pogba to stop that ball, He pulls him away, on the corners/set pieces its normal practice when players push each other, embrace each other, but not for the open play, it's a clear penalty, what was the point for Pogba to dive there or what he did according to you? He could easily convert this pass into the goal if not only Alves and his grab
Look at his right hand, he's doing everything to not let Pogba to stop that ball, He pulls him away, on the corners/set pieces its normal practice when players push each other, embrace each other, but not for the open play, it's a clear penalty, what was the point for Pogba to dive there or what he did according to you? He could easily convert this pass into the goal if not only Alves and his grab
We needed that luck with the peno call buy we dint get it.
But saying were robbed is disgraceful and childish behaviour.Like Hist said,some of you deserve to be supporting Roma or Inter instead for the amount of whining u people do.
We,Juventus have experienced similar scenarios to Barca in the league so please stop bringing out the hypocrisy and try to look at things rationally.
Any unbiased person would admit that Barca were the better team on the day.Like i said,if we had our piece of fortune,maybe we could've gone to ET.
Its disgusting to lose but it is what it is
And zizinho please stop.You're making zero sense,u're sounding like one of those silly goal.com fans
But saying were robbed is disgraceful and childish behaviour.Like Hist said,some of you deserve to be supporting Roma or Inter instead for the amount of whining u people do.
We,Juventus have experienced similar scenarios to Barca in the league so please stop bringing out the hypocrisy and try to look at things rationally.
Any unbiased person would admit that Barca were the better team on the day.Like i said,if we had our piece of fortune,maybe we could've gone to ET.
Its disgusting to lose but it is what it is
And zizinho please stop.You're making zero sense,u're sounding like one of those silly goal.com fans
So, what the diffrence - not given penalty for clear handball or not given penalty for clear foul inside the box?
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they wont understand, we were not robbed in 98, we are just acting very childish, the referee who doesn't have balls to give such a clear penalty is not childish, this is the most important thing
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they wont understand, we were not robbed in 98, we are just acting very childish, the referee who doesn't have balls to give such a clear penalty is not childish, this is the most important thing
Oh c'mon.
It's less than 36 hours after the match. People deal with things in different ways.
I think the expression "we were robbed" is far too strong, even silly, even if in the 10-20 minutes after the match when emotions were high I said so and was much more upset... but the non-calls on 3 Pogba fouls all had a direct influence on the outcome of the match.
Barca was the better team and deserved the win, but as I said, the ref turned a likely win into a basically guaranteed win by swallowing his whistle on two straight fouls on Pogba. And yes, the penalty shout was a foul, it's just whether it was enough of a foul to warrant a penalty being given in a CL final. And isolated from the game and the way the ref was calling it, I'd say no it wasn't. There have only been 2 penalties given in the last 13 CL finals for a reason (and only the 1 for Dortmund actually was at a relevant point in the game). Refs don't want to decide such an important game with a penalty call. Fair enough. I actually agree with this.
What I don't agree with is saying that him swallowing his whistle on the subsequent clear trip on Pogba by Alves, that gave Barca possession for their counter to score the winning goal was a non-factor. It was a big factor. And it was contrary to how he had called the entire game whistling all contact against Barca players regardless of whether we won the ball or not. It wasn't in the box, he wasn't having to swallow his whistle worried about giving a penalty, it was a clear foul that should have been given, and his failure to give it allowed Barca to gain the ball and score less than 10 seconds later. That's objective. That's fact.
So me saying the ref played a factor in Barca's go-ahead goal, which directly influenced the outcome of the game shouldn't be a big deal, and really shouldn't be argued with and called whining. As I've said, we weren't robbed, but the ref made a couple poor calls that directly influenced the outcome. Yes, Barca likely would have won anyways, they were the better team, and had the game changers in attack, and our finishing had been poor all night... but I would have liked to see how the game played out with that foul called properly and it remaining 1-1 at that point where we were pressing.
Oh well. Shit happens. I'm basically over it now, and excited for next season.
But stop calling people childish, disgraceful, and deserving of Inter or Roma for being upset about this. That's really poor form imo.
It's less than 36 hours after the match. People deal with things in different ways.
I think the expression "we were robbed" is far too strong, even silly, even if in the 10-20 minutes after the match when emotions were high I said so and was much more upset... but the non-calls on 3 Pogba fouls all had a direct influence on the outcome of the match.
Barca was the better team and deserved the win, but as I said, the ref turned a likely win into a basically guaranteed win by swallowing his whistle on two straight fouls on Pogba. And yes, the penalty shout was a foul, it's just whether it was enough of a foul to warrant a penalty being given in a CL final. And isolated from the game and the way the ref was calling it, I'd say no it wasn't. There have only been 2 penalties given in the last 13 CL finals for a reason (and only the 1 for Dortmund actually was at a relevant point in the game). Refs don't want to decide such an important game with a penalty call. Fair enough. I actually agree with this.
What I don't agree with is saying that him swallowing his whistle on the subsequent clear trip on Pogba by Alves, that gave Barca possession for their counter to score the winning goal was a non-factor. It was a big factor. And it was contrary to how he had called the entire game whistling all contact against Barca players regardless of whether we won the ball or not. It wasn't in the box, he wasn't having to swallow his whistle worried about giving a penalty, it was a clear foul that should have been given, and his failure to give it allowed Barca to gain the ball and score less than 10 seconds later. That's objective. That's fact.
So me saying the ref played a factor in Barca's go-ahead goal, which directly influenced the outcome of the game shouldn't be a big deal, and really shouldn't be argued with and called whining. As I've said, we weren't robbed, but the ref made a couple poor calls that directly influenced the outcome. Yes, Barca likely would have won anyways, they were the better team, and had the game changers in attack, and our finishing had been poor all night... but I would have liked to see how the game played out with that foul called properly and it remaining 1-1 at that point where we were pressing.
Oh well. Shit happens. I'm basically over it now, and excited for next season.
But stop calling people childish, disgraceful, and deserving of Inter or Roma for being upset about this. That's really poor form imo.
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