[CL] Champions League 2010/11 (32 Viewers)

[Buck Fuddy]

I'm so annoyed over this ceremonial praying on a football pitch, be it catholic or muslim it's freaking annoying. Can't they do it inside the dressing room, on their own time? What's the point of doing the whole ceremony on the pitch in front of everybody? Does it have a better effect or something?

I don't mind people doing a quick trinity cross(or how you say it in English), bow for a second or something, for good luck or so, but this whole ceremonial ritual of getting on the ground and praying, bowing, etc. is just too much.

Now I was born and raised Catholic, am not much religious though, and from what I know, you practice religion for yourself, not for 50,000 people at a stadium.

I think they do it for psychological purposes, it may relief him from stress and actually comfort him. Whatever maybe the reason, anyone should be entitled to do whatever prayer he wants as long as it's harmless to everyone else and by that I mean physically not emotionally.

Yeah, that sounds fair.

 

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[Fred]

I'm so annoyed over this ceremonial praying on a football pitch, be it catholic or muslim it's freaking annoying. Can't they do it inside the dressing room, on their own time? What's the point of doing the whole ceremony on the pitch in front of everybody? Does it have a better effect or something?

I don't mind people doing a quick trinity cross(or how you say it in English), bow for a second or something, for good luck or so, but this whole ceremonial ritual of getting on the ground and praying, bowing, etc. is just too much.

Now I was born and raised Catholic, am not much religious though, and from what I know, you practice religion for yourself, not for 50,000 people at a stadium.

I actually agree with you here, and its actually better even from a religious point of view - are you doing the prayer so that people see that you pray? or are you doing it for God? if your doing it for God then you don't have to do it in front of 50 thousand people.

Still, he's not harming anyone here, so i don't see why he shouldn't do it. and since the Rangers fans are trying to suppress him, i hope he sticks it to them and prays in the center of the pitch.

 

[V]

I think they do it for psychological purposes, it may relief him from stress and actually comfort him. Whatever maybe the reason, anyone should be entitled to do whatever prayer he wants as long as it's harmless to everyone else and by that I mean physically not emotionally.

Yeah but they can have the same effect while doing it in private, no? This praying on the pitch seems to me like attention seeking, like they wanna show the world they're huge believers. Kind of like Kaka with his "I belong to Jesus" t-shirt.....Good for you son, we all belong to him if your religion is correct.

 

[Fred]

Yeah, that sounds fair.

It doesn't make sense though, why would a catholic saying a prayer be offensive to Protestants?

If a Jew wants to pray in the middle of the pitch, i wouldn't give a shit. Ok maybe, other Arabs/Muslims would have a similar reaction to the Rangers fans here, still doesn't mean the Jew shouldn't be permitted to pray.

 

[V]

I actually agree with you here, and its actually better even from a religious point of view - are you doing the prayer so that people see that you pray? or are you doing it for God? if your doing it for God then you don't have to do it in front of 50 thousand people.

Still, he's not harming anyone here, so i don't see why he shouldn't do it. and since the Rangers fans are trying to suppress him, i hope he sticks it to them and prays in the center of the pitch.

I think we see eye to eye here. Now I know he's not harming anyone and I'm all for people having their own religions, but I believe there's a time and place for everything. Imagine every player does his thing on the pitch, one is kneeling, singing, the other is mumbling praying, hte third is chanting, etc. It look ridiculous. Besides, that's why we have churches, mosques, temples, etc. no? And if that pre-game prayer is so important, it can easily be done in private.

Like I said, to me it's nothing more than attention seeking or bragging at just how big of a believer someone is.

 

[Fred]

Yeah but they can have the same effect while doing it in private, no? This praying on the pitch seems to me like attention seeking, like they wanna show the world they're huge believers. Kind of like Kaka with his "I belong to Jesus" t-shirt.....Good for you son, we all belong to him if your religion is correct.

You're completely right here imo. If you really are such a devout catholic and your doing it for Jesus or God or whomever they pray to, then you'd do it in private instead of showing off to the whole world, in which case your intention comes to question here. Are you praying to show the people what a devout catholic you are? Or are you doing it for God?

If its the latter, you can pray in private without all the attention.

Still, we're not here to judge the players faith or beliefs, he isn't harming anyone, i say he should do it.

 

[Fred]

I think we see eye to eye here. Now I know he's not harming anyone and I'm all for people having their own religions, but I believe there's a time and place for everything. Imagine every player does his thing on the pitch, one is kneeling, singing, the other is mumbling praying, hte third is chanting, etc. It look ridiculous. Besides, that's why we have churches, mosques, temples, etc. no? And if that pre-game prayer is so important, it can easily be done in private.

Like I said, to me it's nothing more than attention seeking or bragging at just how big of a believer someone is.

It probably is. I see no other reason why one would opt to do it infront of everyone instead of in private.

Kind of like charity, don't you think? I hate it when celebrities(or anyone for that matter) makes their charity public. If your really doing it out of the good of your heart, then theres no reason to let everyone know your such a charitable person. Charity too should be a private thing.

 

[JBF]

Yeah but they can have the same effect while doing it in private, no? This praying on the pitch seems to me like attention seeking, like they wanna show the world they're huge believers. Kind of like Kaka with his "I belong to Jesus" t-shirt.....Good for you son, we all belong to him if your religion is correct.

Im not into it either but come to think of it, Im sure when these players pray they do more than we witness on the pitch before coming into the pitch or anything similar. They're simply asking for God's help and guidance in that context before starting what they're about to do. It's very common in Islam, and one doesn't have to do anything that would make anyone notice he's praying only uttering few words would do but some like to add the open hands to the mix.

Either way, think of it as a before-eating prayer. It simply is a kick starter for these guys.

 

[V]

It probably is. I see no other reason why one would opt to do it infront of everyone instead of in private.

Kind of like charity, don't you think? I hate it when celebrities(or anyone for that matter) makes their charity public. If your really doing it out of the good of your heart, then theres no reason to let everyone know your such a charitable person. Charity too should be a private thing.

Oh absolutely. What I hate even more is people who are doing charity, then doing commercials which are intended to incite you, to give to charity. Motherfuckers. Half of those people targeted barely make ends meet, than they should feel guilty because some Pop star says "I give to charity, so should you". I hate those things.

 

[Fred]

Im not into it either but come to think of it, Im sure when these players pray they do more than we witness on the pitch before coming into the pitch or anything similar. They're simply asking for God's help and guidance in that context before starting what they're about to do. It's very common in Islam, and one doesn't have to do anything that would make anyone notice he's praying only uttering few words would do but some like to add the open hands to the mix.

Either way, think of it as a before-eating prayer. It simply is a kick starter for these guys.

This guy is kneeling in the center of the pitch though, thats not like someone opening his hands and muttering a few words to himself, the latter is barely noticeable actually,.

 

[Fred]

Oh absolutely. What I hate even more than people who are doing charity, then do commercials which are intended to incite you, to give to charity. Motherfuckers. Half of those people barely make ends meet, than they should feel guilty because some Pop star says "I give to charity, so should you". I hate those things.

 

[JBF]

This guy is kneeling in the center of the pitch though, thats not like someone opening his hands and muttering a few words to himself, the latter is barely noticeable actually,.

Sure it isn't but that's religious diversity to you. We should all have the right to express that in a harmless way whenever we wish, and that's the bottom line for me.

 

[Buck Fuddy]

It doesn't make sense though, why would a catholic saying a prayer be offensive to Protestants?

If a Jew wants to pray in the middle of the pitch, i wouldn't give a shit. Ok maybe, other Arabs/Muslims would have a similar reaction to the Rangers fans here, still doesn't mean the Jew shouldn't be permitted to pray.

Well duh. We're talking about religion here. It's not supposed to make sense

If someone wants to pray, he should. And if someone does not want to pray, then he should not. Simple.
But I don't see why someone who decides to pray would feel the need to bother (not exactly harm, but still) other people who have no interest in that whatsoever.

And now, for the dumb example of the week:
Personally, I don't mind if someone drops on his knees in the middle of the street and starts praying, because that doesn't really bother me. At most, I'd give him a funny look.
There are however people who would feel offended (or harmed) by that, for whatever personal reason they may have.

And that's where it gets tricky: Should the one who's going to pray in public "respect" the other guy's beliefs & decide to pray in private. Or should the other guy "respect" the one who's going to pray & let him go for it.

 

[Fred]

Well duh. We're talking about religion here. It's not supposed to make sense

If someone wants to pray, he should. And if someone does not want to pray, then he should not. Simple.
But I don't see why someone who decides to pray would feel the need to bother (not exactly harm, but still) other people who have no interest in that whatsoever.

And now, for the dumb example of the week:
Personally, I don't mind if someone drops on his knees in the middle of the street and starts praying, because that doesn't really bother me. At most, I'd give him a funny look.
There are however people who would feel offended (or harmed) by that, for whatever personal reason they may have.

And that's where it gets tricky: Should the one who's going to pray in public "respect" the other guy's beliefs & decide to pray in private. Or should the other guy "respect" the one who's going to pray & let him go for it.

First of all, fuck you for your first comment


As for the bolded part, the reality of the situation is that the first scenario is more plausible, because lets face it, if you stood in the middle of a street in an Arab country and started rocking back and forth(Jewish prayer) you'd probably get your face smashed in. That doesn't make it right though.

 

[Buck Fuddy]

First of all, fuck you for your first comment

Judging by that smiley, I'll assume I provided you with a laugh. So you better thank me

As for the bolded part, the reality of the situation is that the first scenario is more plausible, because lets face it, if you stood in the middle of a street in an Arab country and started rocking back and forth(Jewish prayer) you'd probably get your face smashed in. That doesn't make it right though.

I'd say the reality of the situation depends on the location where it would happen, but that's not the point.
The point here is mutual respect. A nice concept, but one that can probably not be achieved in a situation like the one I just described.


Anyway, I just wanted to point out that it's not really a black or white situation. JBF mentioned that someone should be able to pray wherever he'd like, if it doesn't cause harm. I definitley understand that point of view & I can't say that I disagree with that.

However, some people will be bothered, offended or even harmed by someone praying in the middle of the street (to continue with my amazing example ) & they would like for that to be made impossible or forbidden or whatever. I understand this point of view as well & I can't say I disagree with it either.

So there you have it. I pretty much agree with both sides, even though they seem to be mutually exclusive on the surface.

 

[Bozi]

A Catholic prayer in the centre circle at Ibrox?

welcome to bigotry 1-on-56,000

He has every right to do what he believes in and he shouldn't be stopped because some idiots think their beloved club's identity revolves around a religious war.

yeah lets incite the home support just to prove a point,great idea

Such a fan should be stabbed to death for simply being the retarded he is.

JBF-proving that even when you mean well,your own intolerances shine through

The simple thing to do would be to avoid the ritual.

It's not the right thing though.

ok,so it is my pre-match ritual to eat a massive bacon sandwich before in the centre circle before every game,i just got a transfer to a muslim country...should i still do this?

It's not like Hernandez is Scottish catholic and doing it to piss of those stupid incompetent rangers fans. A little common sense in those tiny brains would definitely help

the best of it is,Rangers fans actually hate 19th century Irish Catholic rebels

but totato,tomato eh.?

 

[Hængebøffer]

Well duh. We're talking about religion here. It's not supposed to make sense

If someone wants to pray, he should. And if someone does not want to pray, then he should not. Simple.
But I don't see why someone who decides to pray would feel the need to bother (not exactly harm, but still) other people who have no interest in that whatsoever.

And now, for the dumb example of the week:
Personally, I don't mind if someone drops on his knees in the middle of the street and starts praying, because that doesn't really bother me. At most, I'd give him a funny look.
There are however people who would feel offended (or harmed) by that, for whatever personal reason they may have.

And that's where it gets tricky: Should the one who's going to pray in public "respect" the other guy's beliefs & decide to pray in private. Or should the other guy "respect" the one who's going to pray & let him go for it.

I love that question and people will never ever have an answer to it. Where does it stop? It's different from person to person what offend's him.
My self. I would never make a personal joke to a fat person, about him being fat. But I would make it as in general.

 

[Red]

Manchester United boss Sir Alex Ferguson will give Javier Hernandez a religious head's up before their Champions League visit to Rangers.

The People says Chicharito could be forced to abandon his pre-match Catholic prayer when Manchester United face Rangers in Glasgow on Wednesday week.

Deeply religious Hernandez – nicknamed Chico – kneels on the centre spot and prays *before kick-off in every game he starts. But it is believed United boss Ferguson – a former Rangers player – will advise the 22-year-old to ditch his ritual at Ibrox.

Rangers fans have already vowed on websites to target Hernandez if he goes through his normal routine and that will worry Ferguson who is anxious for United’s visit to pass peacefully.

Rangers officials say there is no question of them banning Hernandez from his usual pre-match routine, which he started in his native Mexico.

But he runs the risk of antagonising anti-Catholic Rangers supporters if he is included in boss Ferguson’s line-up when the teams meet at Ibrox.

------------------------ tribalfootball

If the news are right, then this is really sad. Can't people just accept each other religions and get rid of this hate

Religion has no place in football.

Fergie knows first hand about Rangers' anti-Catholic ways and he is right to tell the kid not to do it.

I'm so annoyed over this ceremonial praying on a football pitch, be it catholic or muslim it's freaking annoying. Can't they do it inside the dressing room, on their own time? What's the point of doing the whole ceremony on the pitch in front of everybody? Does it have a better effect or something?

I don't mind people doing a quick trinity cross(or how you say it in English), bow for a second or something, for good luck or so, but this whole ceremonial ritual of getting on the ground and praying, bowing, etc. is just too much.

Now I was born and raised Catholic, am not much religious though, and from what I know, you practice religion for yourself, not for 50,000 people at a stadium.

ok,so it is my pre-match ritual to eat a massive bacon sandwich before in the centre circle before every game,i just got a transfer to a muslim country...should i still do this?

It's also my habit when playing football to wear a t-shirt under my strip with a replica of the Danish cartoonist's drawing of Muhammad on it.


On a side note, some Huns were monkey chanting Aluko at the weekend. First time I've heard monkey chanting at a Scottish ground in many years.

 

[Nicholas]

What's a 'Hun' Red? and where did the name derive from?

 

[Red]

Hun just a term for a Rangers fan.

There are lots of theories for where it game from, but I don't know which is accurate.