[CL] Champions League 2010/11 (9 Viewers)

[K.O.]

just because I dont automatically hate a team or a player, who both are amazing, like you do, doesnt make me a fan (though except for Messi, he is simply too insane to not want to watch and like, though has nothing to do with being fan of his club). I find it petty and stupid.

Word.

It also reminds me of all the hate Juve was getting back in the days when they used to dominate Italy. Difference is, Barcelona are dominating the world right now.

 

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[king Ale]

They got washed up as heck as players or key players retired. Alot can happen in 2 years. As Italy showed between 2006 and 2008.

No Italy just ran out of talent. Their best players in 2006 were already relatively old, Juve (an important part of the Azzurri in 06 consisted of Juve players) demoted to B, they had a whole different story. France on the other hand, was filled with talent, the players were more or less the same, the tard was still coaching them, only, Zizou was not there.

 

[PhRoZeN]

this is an entertaining discussion. Every person has a right to like and dislike who they want, it doesnt mean we should mock each other. First and foremost im sure you will all agree on one thing we love Juve and thers nothing taking us from that. That includes barcas football and glory.

 

[Osman]

The Materazzi bit he was only comparing because of the overly importance put on a WC tourno, that it shouldnt be used too much for an argument as a basis of how a player is better then the other (like for example Maldini vs Matrix, the later had a great WC btw, but thats what is a tourno, how you perform rest of your career is vital to judge a player too). In general point, WCs are biggiest stages possible and its the time for the big boys to step, but alot of is too circusmtancial and in general too brief to summarize success or height of a legend based simply on that. For example how criminal wouldnt it have been to dismiss the legend of Maradona if they had lost WC86 final (would he be considered like Cruyff?? A great player who lost two WC finals). Though important, shouldnt forget or dismiss the rest of the career of a player.

 

[Alen]

In my life time only twice I've seen a player take the other players by their hand and single handedly lead them to a big trophy or a final. Maradona in 86 and Zidane in 06. The closest to them was Kaka in 07 with Milan. Of course, just like France in 06, Milan 07 had some great players, but those players were all lead by one stronger figure and without that figure the same teams (despite the obvious talent they had) would have never came close to a trophy, final, semifinal or even a quarterfinal.
Argentina 2010 was the same. Obvious talent (Aguero, Tevez, Samuel etc) but the leading figure failed to lead them far.
Messi is still young though so maybe one day he'll do it.

 

[Osman]

No Italy just ran out of talent. Their best players in 2006 were already relatively old, Juve (an important part of the Azzurri in 06 consisted of Juve players) demoted to B, they had a whole different story. France on the other hand, was filled with talent, the players were more or less the same, the tard was still coaching them, only, Zizou was not there.

Zizou was the biggiest piece of the puzzle (to put it mildly, rarely will a player be more important for a team then him), but he wasnt the only one who aged/retired or got washed up. Was a whole generation of top players with him. They werent simply those players anywhere. Same that Italy's oldies werent that either. But unlike Italy, France had talented new players, but they were primmadonnas and idiots coached by retard. They werent a real team anymore. As I said, alot happens in 2 years.

 

[K.O.]

Please now, was Materazzi's impact on the Italian NT similar to Zidane's impact on the French NT? I will not comment on that.

Of course not!

I was comparing Materazzi's impact with Maldini's, say in 2002 or 1998. Can we say Materazzi is a better player than Maldini, because he won a WC with Italy?

I just don't believe in this idea, judging players based on a 30 days tournament.

 

[Juve_Kosova]

I never said I'm a Juve fan, unlike some others who were Juve fans and now support Barca. I was an I am a Milan fan so I'm simply celebrating my team's scudetto.
Talking about the avatar, let us please remind Snoop to act on it.

Ahaaa, my bad.. :S

 

[Osman]

Exactly, DEFENITELY need to not commit the mistake of minimizing decade (or more) long top careers to a tourno that is 7 games, even if its the biggiest stage. I generally find it sad how ignored/dismissed great players who never had good enough team/country to quality to it, are.

 

[JCK]

Of course not!

I was comparing Materazzi's impact with Maldini's, say in 2002 or 1998. Can we say Materazzi is a better player than Maldini, because he won a WC with Italy?

I just don't believe in this idea, judging players based on a 30 days tournament.

No, we cannot say that Materazzi is a better player than Maldini because he won a World Cup but we can say that Zidane is a better player than Messi because he lead his team to a World Cup and led his CRIPPLED team managed by a dunce to a World Cup final.

 

[Osman]

Ahaaa, my bad.. :S

He is joking, just so you know. He has bit weird of a sense of humour.

 

[king Ale]

Zizou was the biggiest piece of the puzzle (to put it mildly, rarely will a player be more important for a team then him), but he wasnt the only one who aged/retired or got washed up. Was a whole generation of top players with him. They werent simply those players anywhere. Same that Italy's oldies werent that either. But unlike Italy, France had talented new players, but they were primmadonnas and idiots coached by retard. They werent a real team anymore. As I said, alot happens in 2 years.

A lot happens in two years, but to France, it was only one thing. Zidane. That's all. They were never going to come close to the 06 final without Zizou. He singlehandedly brought them wins against Spain and Brazil.

This is what Messi has been incapable of doing so far and the history of him playing for his NT doesn't look promising either. When he plays half as great with another team (his national team) I will agree that he can be compared to the likes of Zizou and Maradona.

 

[Osman]

He is 23 old, he is 23 YEARS OLD.

 

[JCK]

It was enough that Messi scored for the first time ever on English soil just yesterday and only after Van Der Saar was falling asleep.

 

[Juve_Kosova]

He is joking, just so you know. He has bit weird of a sense of humour.

I see...

Anyway I think Messi is showing to us all (haters and admirers) how good he really is.. Whatever the opinion, the facts are there.. It is also true that he still needs to show his quality's in the world cup, but the kid is younger then me and still got his best years to come.. Peace out!

 

[Alen]

A lot happens in two years, but to France, it was only one thing. Zidane. That's all. They were never going to come close to the 06 final without Zizou. He singlehandedly brought them wins against Spain and Brazil.

This is what Messi has been incapable of doing so far and the history of him playing for his NT doesn't look promising either. When he plays half as great with another team (his national team) I will agree that he can be compared to the likes of Zizou and Maradona.

Those who won't understand my point will laugh at the comparison, but I see a similarity between Messi and Pedro. The similarity is that the way their club plays, its style, makes them at least 2-3 times better players than they are.
Obviously, the difference in quality between the two is sky-earth.

Btw, I'd really like to see Pedro in Parma and Giovinco in Barca. 2 or 3 seasons will be enough. I have a feeling that Seba will be just as good as Pedro is in Barca and the gypsy will be worse than Seba is in Parma.

 

[da_ledgeaun]

Okay.


I would like to say Motta > Messi.

Well du'h..Tell me something I dont know

 

[king Ale]

He is 23 old, he is 23 YEARS OLD.

Not yet then, NOT YET THEN.

 

[K.O.]

No, we cannot say that Materazzi is a better player than Maldini because he won a World Cup but we can say that Zidane is a better player than Messi because he lead his team to a World Cup and led his CRIPPLED team managed by a dunce to a World Cup final.

I think you just place too much importance on World Cups.

He is 23 old, he is 23 YEARS OLD.

Yes, 23 years old. TWENTY-THREE...

 

[KB824]

He is 23 old, he is 23 YEARS OLD.

Amazing how people tend to forget this simple fact.

People can hate on him all they want, but if I had to start a team and pick one player to build around, this kid is the guy.