[CL] Atletico Madrid 1-0 JUVENTUS (October 1st 2014) (4 Viewers)

[MikeM]

so before the game atletico lost their best players and wasnt that good, but after the game it's the best defensive unit in history? hooookay

Zach was probably the only one who said that. I actually argued hard against him that Atletico was still a top team.

 

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[.zero]

@Red

IMO were able to play the game the wanted

that being said I don't think anyone can really say that we were outplayed, but I do believe we were out coached in a macro aspect

 

[Mister]

There was a fair bit of debate pre-match.

I wanted Juve to have less possession than they ended up having, with the intention of denying Atletico counter-attacking chances and to increase the chance of Juve being able to find space when they did get the ball and the chance to attack.

The counter-attacks from Atletico weren't an issue because Juve didn't make costly errors in possession, but Juve dominating the ball the way they did meant there was little chance of there being situations where Atletico weren't all behind the ball and in position.

So do you think allegri made a tactical mistake by playing possession based instead of counter attacking style ?

Against a side like ATM which is so organised, compact and hardly leaves any space when they defend, we thought we could penetrate them with tevez as our only creative player.

Maybe we should have sat back and let atletico attack in order to open them up and then long balls to llorente would have been more effective.

When pereyra was subbed in we were able to get behind their defense once

Do you think with pirlo we would have been able to distribute the ball better because of his ability to pass into space unlike marchisio who passes into feet.

 

[Trequartista]

@Red

IMO were able to play the game the wanted

that being said I don't think anyone can really say that we were outplayed, but I do believe we were out coached in a macro aspect

They completely neutralized our offense and capitalized on one defensive mistake, but they do that to most teams.

I think the biggest mistake was not using Pereyra earlier, his quick plays in the final third would have helped us a lot.

 

[Red]

@Red

IMO were able to play the game the wanted

that being said I don't think anyone can really say that we were outplayed, but I do believe we were out coached in a macro aspect

I think both teams played pretty much the game they wanted to.

It just so happened that Atletico nicked a goal, so their plan suddenly looked better than it really was.

So do you think allegri made a tactical mistake by playing possession based instead of counter attacking style ?

Against a side like ATM which is so organised, compact and hardly leaves any space when they defend, we thought we could penetrate them with tevez as our only creative player.

Maybe we should have sat back and let atletico attack in order to open them up and then long balls to llorente would have been more effective.

When pereyra was subbed in we were able to get behind their defense once

Do you think with pirlo we would have been able to distribute the ball better because of his ability to pass into space unlike marchisio who passes into feet.

I don't think it was a mistake from Allegri as controlling the game with possession gave the best chance of drawing the game, which would have been a fine result.

I think allowing Atletico more of the ball would have increased the chances of both teams getting chances, so would have been more likely to give Juve a chance to win the game.

Don't know about Pirlo. The movement from Juve wasn't good, so I don't know if he'd have had anything to hit.

 

[Linebreak]

There was a fair bit of debate pre-match.

I wanted Juve to have less possession than they ended up having, with the intention of denying Atletico counter-attacking chances and to increase the chance of Juve being able to find space when they did get the ball and the chance to attack.

The counter-attacks from Atletico weren't an issue because Juve didn't make costly errors in possession, but Juve dominating the ball the way they did meant there was little chance of there being situations where Atletico weren't all behind the ball and in position.

Part of the problem there is there were hardly any quick passes, intelligent runs, daring passes, or skilful players trying to take their opponent on.

It comes back to the age old Italian mentality of playing it safe for the draw when a draw is a good enough result. Risk free football doesn't work any more, the game has changed too much.

PS: Juve is the only Serie A team that let Italy down in coefficient points this week.

 

[Zacheryah]

Zach was probably the only one who said that. I actually argued hard against him that Atletico was still a top team.

Exactly. I'm the only one who said it, and i have NEVER called Athletico "the best defensive unit in history".

 

[GordoDeCentral]

I'm the only one who said they lost their best two players, and i have never said "its the best defensive unit in history". Not even close.

I do like athletico as it resembles the older argentina NT sides. But they are less then last year, and got a lucky win.

i was referring to alen's post where he said we would never be able to get a shot on target on this atleti defense.
also honestly zach you shouldnt even comment on the subject, you said frickin benfica would put up more of a fight, that alone should discount any opinion on atletico you might have

I don't think it's people changing their stories, just one side becomes more vocal then the other.

true

Zach was probably the only one who said that. I actually argued hard against him that Atletico was still a top team.

but what does atleti have that we dont? result is no shame of course, but that performance in the second half was some shameful stuff imo we cant just chalk it up to they are the better 'team'

 

[Hust]

Our team looked like they were running in sand when we got to closer to their goal in our offensive third. Nothing went right and everyone made awkward runs and made a meal out of what should be the simple things.

Twilight Zone material is what we saw yesterday.

 

[Pirlo's Beard]

That's what happens sadly when you have a bunch of CM's, defenders and a log of a striker trying to make shit happen against proper defensive units.

 

[Bianconero_Aus]

Part of the problem there is there were hardly any quick passes, intelligent runs, daring passes, or skilful players trying to take their opponent on.

It comes back to the age old Italian mentality of playing it safe for the draw when a draw is a good enough result. Risk free football doesn't work any more, the game has changed too much.

PS: Juve is the only Serie A team that let Italy down in coefficient points this week.

Yeah although compare our opposition to Slovan Bratislava, Qarabag or Dinamo Minsk. We played probably the toughest team in the world at the moment. There was more probability of us getting a result against Barcelona or Real Madrid IMO.

 

[Linebreak]

That's what happens sadly when you have a bunch of CM's, defenders and a log of a striker trying to make $#@! happen against proper defensive units.

Don't agree.

Our CM's are some of the best in the world, they were really below par though.

Our defence had hardly any situations to deal with.

It comes down to the fact that we're mentally weak in Europe, too afraid to bring our game and pressure the opponent into any sort of fear. The Italian risk-averse mentality has to change in Europe or nothing will change in Europe.

Olympiacos will be no push overs and will be an absolute handful at home. Remember they scored 3 against a team we didn't get a single shot away against.

 

[Pirlo's Beard]

Are CMs are among the best in the World

But that doesn't change the fact that they're still CMs.

A top class B2B CM often has inferior playmaking skills to attacking mids considered 'decent'

 

[Linebreak]

Mental block in Europe plays a bigger role.

 

[Pirlo's Beard]

A mental block never stopped us scoring last night. A World Class defensive side did.

It's not like we made 20 chances and choked, we got our asses handed to us defensively by a side that is used to doing well against teams with 5x the attacking threat we have.

Tevez - Good enough

Llorente is exceptionally limited especially in our system

Then after that our 3rd best starting attacker is Vidal, a b2b mid. Then you have the likes of Pogba and Lichtsteiner.....

 

[Trequartista]

No, we struggle to unlock a well organized defense, the same happened against Benfica.

That's why we badly need wingers.

 

[Pirlo's Beard]

Yep

We don't have the attacking tools. A mental block is a nice excuse when we can't see inferior teams off

When we create NOTHING and carry NO threat whatsoever it's not some convenient collective mental issue it's a poor attack.

 

[Linebreak]

A mental block never stopped us scoring last night. A World Class defensive side did.

It's not like we made 20 chances and choked, we got our asses handed to us defensively by a side that is used to doing well against teams with 5x the attacking threat we have.

Tevez - Good enough

Llorente is exceptionally limited especially in our system

Then after that our 3rd best starting attacker is Vidal, a b2b mid. Then you have the likes of Pogba and Lichtsteiner.....

A mental block stopped us from even creating chances. Did you see how many times we could've got a good shot away but didn't? I can recall Vidal, Tevez, Pogba and Licht all having good chances to shoot but cocked it up somehow.

At other times, we'd have a free player on the edge, and fail to make a simple schoolboy pass to him.

It's got little to do with World Class AM's or Wingers as much as it has to do with mentality.

 

[Pirlo's Beard]

We also take shit long shots in Serie A

In Serie A our players often try to do too much in the box and fluff a shot

Licht has like 2-3 'could've shot but passed instead' moments a game in Serie A. I did not see a significantly different Juve last night in the final 3rd, I seen the exact same Juve coming up against a defence infinitely better than what our competition domestically can muster.

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Oh and as for the last sentence, do you not think 'World class wingers' would do better in such situations than the likes of Lichtsteiner?

Or would a 'World class AM' not be a better bet to provide proper service to our forwards than a Vidal or a Marchisio?

 

[Linebreak]

We also take $#@! long shots in Serie A

In Serie A our players often try to do too much in the box and fluff a shot

Licht has like 2-3 'could've shot but passed instead' moments a game in Serie A. I did not see a significantly different Juve last night in the final 3rd, I seen the exact same Juve coming up against a defence infinitely better than what our competition domestically can muster.

There's much difference.

Look at Vidal's second goal 2 games ago. He gets the ball outside the box, pop, and scores. No hesitation, no thought, no fear.

Look at him against Atletico. Had an aaaggee to shoot, falls over under no pressure, and gives the ball away.

And for all the talk of a magnficently organised defensive unit, these are the same guys that conceded 3 against Olympiacos. Does Olympiacos have better "Attacking" players than us coz if they do we're in deep trouble?

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Oh and as for the last sentence, do you not think 'World class wingers' would do better in such situations than the likes of Lichtsteiner?

Or would a 'World class AM' not be a better bet to provide proper service to our forwards than a Vidal or a Marchisio?

For sure world class attackers would help immensely. But I am talking about what we have today, which is world class CM's that can score from anywhere and a pretty damn good attacking line as well.