[CL] Atletico Madrid 1-0 JUVENTUS (October 1st 2014) (31 Viewers)

[Bjerknes]

It wasn't exciting but I found it enthralling and captivating. It was an interesting tactical battle between two strong teams and since one of those teams is my team I was really into it.

I think it would be different if it was a knockout. Knowing that it's just one of six and we have plenty of chances to win points, I found it relatively boring. If the match had happened in Serie A, most people would probably agree with me. It's the allure of the Champions League that gets folks going.

 

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[Zacheryah]

I think it would be different if it was a knockout. Knowing that it's just one of six and we have plenty of chances to win points, I found it relatively boring. If the match had happened in Serie A, most people would probably agree with me. It's the allure of the Champions League that gets folks going.

You are comparing a cup competition to a league. Thats the first mistake.

A tense league game, has less excitement for sure, but if the opponent has the allure people here give to athletico, then it would still be quite a bit

A cup competition is different however. each game can have a major impact. If we lose this game and the next, its a very big deal

Lose 2 games in serie a, if you dont have 2013/2014 juve in that league, it doesnt matter nearly that much

 

[Red]

What do you think the best approach will be?

More broadly, what is the way to play against Atletico for anyone?

Real Madrid and Barcelona haven't yet figured out a way to consistently create chances and score goals against them.

How do you draw them out of shape or open them up at 0-0?

Are you going to try and instigate a more open game, which is risky considering they are dangerous when given space to attack?

Are you going to play with a lot of width and try to stretch them out and try to beat them one-on-one in wide areas and get good deliveries into the box (the way Real Madrid try to beat them) or use the width to create space in the middle and try to penetrate there (the Barca way)?


There are two things that I would suggest Juve need to do:

1) Test Ansaldi.

Vidal's flat display made that difficult as it meant Lichtsteiner was the lone threat on that side. Typically Vidal and Lichtsteiner offer a lot of pace and energy and really put a left-back under pressure. So I'd be looking for Pirlo (or whoever plays) to be playing balls over the top of Ansaldi for Vidal/Lichtsteiner bursting forward from deep.

The burst of pace from deep is the main enemy for any deep, packed defence. And even if that tactic of targeting Ansaldi doesn't really work, you might be able to get Atletico to adjust to cover that threat, which could open a space somewhere else; and

2) More long balls.

I know most people won't like this idea, but I don't mean hoofing the ball aimlessly and hoping. I'm talking about targeted balls up to Llorente's chest and getting Tevez and at least one midfielder moving around Llorente to receive the lay-off. Most of Juve's good situations last night came from playing up to Llorente, rather than trying to play through the Atletico midfield. At the very least, Atletico won very few balls cleanly from Llorente, so there was the chance of a loose ball breaking in Juve's favour. Juve didn't commit enough men close to Llorente, though, so the chances of the ball breaking in their favour was relatively slim.

Playing up to Llorente can also have a couple of effects. It is likely to push the defence back a little and create some space between the lines and Atletico could be pulled narrow by Juve playing to Llorente and getting runners close to him. That can be used to create space in wider areas to get down the side/round the back and into good crossing positions.

Unfortunately, it's not easy to combine those two attacking foci without committing an awful lot of players forward and therefore taking quite a few risks.


The other thing that I would mention is that Juve are quite a lot bigger than Atletico, so they should be targeting corners and freekicks. Last night Atletico had Tiago marking Chiellini at corners. You could try to have other players moving to create a situation where Miranda and Godin are taken away from the area the ball is being played to to try and get Juve's other big players isolated against some smaller Atletico ones.

 

[Dino_mk]

Contrast our performance with that of Roma's. Roma went to Manchester to try and play...

Good post except the part that I quoted.
You simply can't compare different games with different opponents. Can't even compare same team in different match, example Atletico vs Olimpiacos was having totally different approach than vs Juve.

 

[Red]

Contrast our performance with that of Roma's. Roma went to Manchester to try and play

That's a very silly thing to say.

 

[JuveJay]

Contrast our performance with that of Roma's. Roma went to Manchester to try and play; we, on the other hand, were content at exercising "damage limitation" instead of actually being more aggressive in pursuing the 3 points. It almost paid off, but at the end of the day results and points are what matter.

So did Man City, they were very attacking and left lots of space in midfield and around the defence, completely unlike Atlético Madrid.

 

[MikeM]

Man City is nowhere close to as good as Atletico Madrid.

 

[Bjerknes]

More broadly, what is the way to play against Atletico for anyone?

Real Madrid and Barcelona haven't yet figured out a way to consistently create chances and score goals against them.

How do you draw them out of shape or open them up at 0-0?

Are you going to try and instigate a more open game, which is risky considering they are dangerous when given space to attack?

Are you going to play with a lot of width and try to stretch them out and try to beat them one-on-one in wide areas and get good deliveries into the box (the way Real Madrid try to beat them) or use the width to create space in the middle and try to penetrate there (the Barca way)?


There are two things that I would suggest Juve need to do:

1) Test Ansaldi.

Vidal's flat display made that difficult as it meant Lichtsteiner was the lone threat on that side. Typically Vidal and Lichtsteiner offer a lot of pace and energy and really put a left-back under pressure. So I'd be looking for Pirlo (or whoever plays) to be playing balls over the top of Ansaldi for Vidal/Lichtsteiner bursting forward from deep.

The burst of pace from deep is the main enemy for any deep, packed defence. And even if that tactic of targeting Ansaldi doesn't really work, you might be able to get Atletico to adjust to cover that threat, which could open a space somewhere else; and

2) More long balls.

I know most people won't like this idea, but I don't mean hoofing the ball aimlessly and hoping. I'm talking about targetted balls up to Llorente's chest and getting Tevez and at least one midfielder moving around Llorente to recieve the lay-off. Most of Juve's good situations last night came from playing up to Llorente, rather than trying to play through the Atletico midfield. At the very least, Atletico won very few balls cleanly from Llorente, so there was the chance of a loose ball breaking in Juve's favour. Juve didn't commit enough men close to Llorente, though, so the chances of the ball breaking in their favour was relatively slim.

Playing up to Llorente can also have a couple of effects. It is likely to push the defence back a little and create some space between the lines and Atletico could be pulled narrow by Juve playing to Llorente and getting runners close to him. That can be used to create space in wider areas to get down the side/round the back and into good crossing positions.

Unfortunately, it's not easy to combine those two attacking foci without committing an awful lot of players forward and therefore taking quite a few risks.


The other thing that I would mention is that Juve are quite a lot bigger than Atletico, so they should be targeting corners and freekicks. Last night Atletico had Tiago marking Chiellini at corners. You could try to have other players moving to create a situation where Miranda and Godin are taken away from the area the ball is being played to to try and get Juve's other big players isoltated against some smaller Atletico one.

Good analysis, I agree with some parts, especially the set pieces. But I will have to say the lofted balls to Llorente might not work either since Atletico will probably be even more compact away and their centerbacks are generally adept at disrupting players with their back towards goal. I would use Morata as his mobility will help draw out the backs a little and create space for Pogba and Vidal to step in.

 

[Red]

I would use Morata as his mobility will help draw out the backs a little and create space for Pogba and Vidal to step in.

Yeah, the thought did occur that Juve could go the opposite way to focusing on Llorente and try to do the whole 'not giving reference points' thing with more mobility up front.

My issue with that is that Barca haven't managed to hurt Atletico playing in that sort of fashion and they've been the best at that style of attacking in recent times. Real also do it to a significant extent because Benzema spends most of his time wandering and they haven't had success.

One way or another, I'd like to see Juve get an extra man high up the pitch.

I think I'd quite fancy playing 4-3-? with Pereyra in the team.

That would give you the versatility to switch shapes around depending on whether you wanted 4-3-1-2 with more play through the middle or pushing Pereyra wide and going 4-3-3 if you wanted to get more width at particular points during the match.


I should point out, of course, that these suggestions are assuming Juve want/need to win the return game against Atletico.

 

[Roman]

Man City is nowhere close to as good as Atletico Madrid.

 

[Zacheryah]

How is athletico's turnover without counting transfer income ?

 

[GordoDeCentral]

so before the game atletico lost their best players and wasnt that good, but after the game it's the best defensive unit in history? hooookay

 

[italiacalcio10]

made the whole post sound ridiculous

Lol, I didn't mean playing them as a 3 man midfield.

I meant if you sold Vidal or Marchisio, one of Asamoah, Pirlo or Pereyra could effectively slot in with Pogba and the player that wasn't sold:

Ie:
Asamoah-----Vidal-----Pogba---
or
Pogba----Pirlo--------Vidal------
or
Pogba-----Vidal--------Pereyra

In no situation would I ever suggest playing Asamoah-Pirlo-Pereyra in our main formation. Maybe you're playing Toronto FC, you're up 3-0, and its in the 75th minute.

Asamoah in particular is probably the most underutilized player on the team. He could easily slot in as the 3rd central midfielder.

Would I sell Marchisio for 30 million Euro, put Asamoah in the formation, and buy Reus with the cash received (and making up the difference)....Hell yes.
Would I sell Vidal for 70 million Euro, put Asamoah in the formation, and buy Reus and Shaqiri with the cash received...most definitely.

Would I sell them both? No. But fact is we have way too many central midfielders. We have more adequate CMs than most "money-bag" teams have.

 

[Bjerknes]

Yeah, the thought did occur that Juve could go the opposite way to focusing on Llorente and try to do the whole 'not giving reference points' thing with more mobility up front.

My issue with that is that Barca haven't managed to hurt Atletico playing in that sort of fashion and they've been the best at that style of attacking in recent times. Real also do it to a significant extent because Benzema spends most of his time wandering and they haven't had success.

One way or another, I'd like to see Juve get an extra man high up the pitch.

I think I'd quite fancy playing 4-3-? with Pereyra in the team.

That would give you the versatility to switch shapes around depending on whether you wanted 4-3-1-2 with more play through the middle or pushing Pereyra wide and going 4-3-3 if you wanted to get more width at particular points during the match.


I should point out, of course, that these suggestions are assuming Juve want/need to win the return game against Atletico.

I guess the difference would be we don't have attacking wingers like Real or Barca, so perhaps we could draw out the centerbacks and attack through the middle, maybe get some crosses in there that fall to Vidal or Pogba. Obviously we won't accomplish anything by using Barca's tactics. Either way, I like the idea of the 4-3-1-2.

so before the game atletico lost their best players and wasnt that good, but after the game it's the best defensive unit in history? hooookay

Isn't it great?

 

[Zacheryah]

so before the game atletico lost their best players and wasnt that good, but after the game it's the best defensive unit in history? hooookay

I'm the only one who said they lost their best two players, and i have never said "its the best defensive unit in history". Not even close.

I do like athletico as it resembles the older argentina NT sides. But they are less then last year, and got a lucky win.

 

[Trequartista]

so before the game atletico lost their best players and wasnt that good, but after the game it's the best defensive unit in history? hooookay

 

[Zacheryah]

Why are you supporting a false claim ?

 

[.zero]

So glad to see all the master tacticians providing their input for the post mortem

maybe next time you guys should try it before the match

 

[AFL_ITALIA]

so before the game atletico lost their best players and wasnt that good, but after the game it's the best defensive unit in history? hooookay

I don't think it's people changing their stories, just one side becomes more vocal then the other.

 

[Red]

So glad to see all the master tacticians providing their input for the post mortem

maybe next time you guys should try it before the match

There was a fair bit of debate pre-match.

I wanted Juve to have less possession than they ended up having, with the intention of denying Atletico counter-attacking chances and to increase the chance of Juve being able to find space when they did get the ball and the chance to attack.

The counter-attacks from Atletico weren't an issue because Juve didn't make costly errors in possession, but Juve dominating the ball the way they did meant there was little chance of there being situations where Atletico weren't all behind the ball and in position.