[Champions League] BATE Borisov - Juventus (30 September, 2008) (13 Viewers)

Bjerknes

"Top Economist"
Mar 16, 2004
111,701
Lets put things into perspective here.

Defense - Come on, we knew this defense would be average before we started the season. People were just trying to be optimistic. Grygera is a disaster, Legrottaglie can make flaws under pressure, Chiellini is clumsy and hasn't been the same after the injury, although De Ceglie is promising.

Now to the midfield from today:

Giovinco - played out of position.

Camoranesi - Played out of position (I know he can play there, but isn't used to it).

Sissoko - Plays well defensively but cannot pass the ball; we know this.

Nedved - He's just too old to play anymore.

Forwards:

Iaquinta - Did well scoring but he doesn't add much other than that.

Del Piero - Trying to make up for the lack of creativity by himself but failed today.

Amauri - Can't be expected to change a game in 12 minutes.
 

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Yamen

Senior Member
Apr 20, 2007
11,809
Rab I agree. but again, we have to look ahead. The performance doesn't look so good. We have suffered in both CL matches. and against teams of lower class. You see the difference between Bate and Zentis is that they work as a whole group. This is what Juve have stopped doing, at least in todays game.
 
Jul 18, 2002
1,254
Putting away emotions and anger..... I really don't think there's a chance we wont qualify. We may look immatures playing the likes of Catania and Bate. But we are a tough team to beat and we have proved that since last year. We haven't lost to a big team since the Viola match at home.


I don't think It'll be an easy walk for the Spanish in both games, nor for Zenit in Russia. They need to be brilliant and lucky to beat us.

Let's say we don't qualify for the next round and end up in UEFA cup.... The positive of that aspect would be that Ranieri is going to be fired unless we win the UEFA cup :D!
 

Azzurri7

Pinturicchio
Moderator
Dec 16, 2003
72,692
The aproach will certainly be different. We'll pay much more attention to our defense and we'll be more organized because we'll expect the pressure.

The schedule is awful, though. I'm pretty sure we'll play for a draw on our next match(es) but if we lose the next match and Zenit beats Bate then we'll feel a huge pressure because the next match against Real will be a must win and so far we're not looking good when we're in a must win situation.
I agree. Next game vs Real we're playing at home. I think we can win IF we start on the right track in Serie A starting from Palermo.
 

juvefan10

Junior Member
May 14, 2006
352
And IMO, Del Piero is out off form. At least compared to last season.
and once again.. just what azzurri7 jsut said.. he's not OFF FORM!

just look back in past.. remind yourself how low ale was.. he had some teriblle matches.. and he was bit lucky to score that much..

this year he can run, not just run.. but run fast!!! this year i couldn't see any defender who could take ball of him.. 1 on 1.

ale wil score and he will turn an hero again.. tha't life, that's people..

.
and yeah.. when it comes to being selfish.. just look at ronaldo, ibrahimovich usless movements first..

azzurri7 :up:
 

Alen

Ѕenior Аdmin
Apr 2, 2007
52,574
Lets put things into perspective here.

Defense - Come on, we knew this defense would be average before we started the season. People were just trying to be optimistic. Grygera is a disaster, Legrottaglie can make flaws under pressure, Chiellini is clumsy and hasn't been the same after the injury, although De Ceglie is promising.

Now to the midfield from today:

Giovinco - played out of position.

Camoranesi - Played out of position (I know he can play there, but isn't used to it).

Sissoko - Plays well defensively but cannot pass the ball; we know this.

Nedved - He's just too old to play anymore.

Forwards:

Iaquinta - Did well scoring but he doesn't add much other than that.

Del Piero - Trying to make up for the lack of creativity by himself but failed today.

Amauri - Can't be expected to change a game in 12 minutes.
Everything's true.

But we've seen another thing that people decided to ignore:
Since the idiots didn't want to buy defenders, playing with 2 DMC's is a must. I know you don't like such formation, but it's painfully obvious that whenever the other team has 4 or 5 midfielders, we're getting destroyed if we don't play with 2 DMCs.
We'll score less, but we certainly won't concede goals from teams like BATE.
 
Mar 30, 2006
3,747
Phew, you should have seen me after BATE's second goal and during the last 15 minutes.
This was a stress i really didn't need but it's normal to scream ( or write BS here) in such moments. Our hearts will explode if we keep this to ourselves.

We, fans, are so silly human beings. We knew since the start that our hearts will be broken sooner or later and yet we decided to love a football team.
:pint:
 

Mike-e-y

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2004
11,092
I thought it was a decent result taking everything into consideration - the fact we had Poulsen, Trezeguet, Buffon, Zebina, Mellberg and Zanetti all missing the game, and the fact we were 2-0 down and looked dead and buried.
Iaquinta and Giovinco did well but Sissoko, Nedved and Camoranesi all missed Poulsen who could have sat back and defended while Pavel and Mauro could have driven forward more. Good to have Buffon and Poulsen back at the weekend although Manninger was not that bad tonight.
Still 2nd in group H 4 points clear of Zenit.
It was a terrible result taking everything into consideration, the only positive was giovinco again. We should have controlled the game but yet again we were dismantled by pace. I hope we never meet arsenal because we will be dismantled by them

:agree: even the zenit game we were lucky to win it that day. Not to mention the league games that we played soo bad.........
We've been consistantly awful all season, I am bemused that we are actually one of the only unbeaten teams in europe. I dont know how that has happened with the level we have been playing at

Putting away emotions and anger..... I really don't think there's a chance we wont qualify. We may look immatures playing the likes of Catania and Bate. But we are a tough team to beat and we have proved that since last year. We haven't lost to a big team except the Viola match at home.


I don't think It'll be an easy walk for the Spanish in both games, nor for Zenit in Russia. They need to be brilliant and lucky to beat us.
I think its far too early to say that, especially considering we have to play real madrid twice, zenit away and then bate at home, there is a very realistic chance we will only pick up 4 more points and with 8 points I doubt we would make it. In this group i think anyone could beat anyone else on their day. I dont want to sound like a pessimist but to qualify we will have to move up a few gears
 

Azzurri7

Pinturicchio
Moderator
Dec 16, 2003
72,692
Everything's true.

But we've seen another thing that people decided to ignore:
Since the idiots didn't want to buy defenders, playing with 2 DMC's is a must. I know you don't like such formation, but it's painfully obvious that whenever the other team has 4 or 5 midfielders, we're getting destroyed if we don't play with 2 DMCs.
We'll score less, but we certainly won't concede goals from teams like BATE.
Actually what I noticed from this match is that one of Poulsen and Zanetti should always start. Sissoko is too good to be benched but is a normal passer not more. Marchisio can't save his life to pass a good long pass.

Poulsen and Zanetti, are capable of passing and crossing, specially Zanetti whom has an incredible vision.
 

Luca

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2007
12,743
we are second right? That's a positive
But then look at the next fixtures, it's gonna be tough, like alen said about our summer mercato, it's karma, even chiellini has been poor beyond belief.
 

GordoDeCentral

Diez
Moderator
Apr 14, 2005
69,443
Everything's true.

But we've seen another thing that people decided to ignore:
Since the idiots didn't want to buy defenders, playing with 2 DMC's is a must. I know you don't like such formation, but it's painfully obvious that whenever the other team has 4 or 5 midfielders, we're getting destroyed if we don't play with 2 DMCs.
We'll score less, but we certainly won't concede goals from teams like BATE.

thats why i dont get why anyone here would rate our transfer campaign satisfactory
 

Cronios

Juventolog
Jun 7, 2004
27,412
Once again CR proved he is clueless!!
Every single time he fields super defensive teams and he let our defense exposed against such a pacey team.
I have seen Bate before a couple of years ago and if i remember one thing for them its their pace and the football they just displayed today.
In this game, more than any other time, we have to suffocate their center and do not allow them to make those runs, we should not give them so many space to use their speed.
CR was in ignorance of their speed and declared surprised of it,
he is clueless anyway, but i was surprised of Bate's technical skills!!
They were def not that good ever before, this is probably the strongest BATE ever, their pace, skill, TEAMWORK and determination, got the better of us, we were outplayed and this was evident from the first 5'

It is not a surprise for me however, for years and years i am pointing out our weak spots and time has come to pay for them, we are worthy of our fate, because we did nothing to fix them!!

When CR arrived, he took a new team on his hand, a puzzle of players, he should turn into a team, but after all these months, we dont look like a team as of yet, there is no tactical plan, no clear roles, no efficiency, nothing that could sign this team has a coach. We are expecting from our players to provide some individual brilliance at each and every game...

For a various of reasons though, our helm fails to motivate them enough
and since the old guard lost, the post serie b/calciopoli wrath,
we now seem so hopeless.
We do not take advantage of our players special characteristics and we expect from some of them to create... miracles.
DP actually reflects the situation. He seems desperate and selfish because CR, arms him with no attacking plan, no support and orders him to score from 30m away and threw 3-4 players. This is why he looks so frustrated and tries so many desperate shoots, because there is no one else to it, i ve been watching the game with two non Juve footy fans and they said, that he is all alone and has absolutely no support, no one to turn into...

When i saw the line up, i was glad to see Giovinco there and i was quite surprised to see him playing as an amf.
Finally, thats a bold move from CR i thought, but unfortunately, Sissoko wasnt fit today to cover up for 2 DMs and we lost the center midfield.
Giovinco's presence and brilliance is most welcomed, but without a tactical plan to follow, it cannot be as efficient as it gets!
A few players had contradictory roles and there was confusion and frustration, esp in our wings. Neddy and Camo were horrible and among with Sissoko, we lost the midfield and the control of the game.
That made our defense, even more shaky and exposed her weakness,
i ve been saying for years, when Chiellini was turned into a CB, that he is good but clumsy for this job. Chiellini knows very well that he fights all alone in our defense and that he must do all the work by himself,
this responsibility suffocates him...yes even him...

There is a collective problem within our team, as you can easily notice, the ones we used today where clinically fit for the job (maybe except the "hungry" Mommo) Camo,Neddy,DP,Chiellini were all fit, but they were not actually there. The CL should motivate them enough, but there are issues that do not allow them to perform.
90% of the times many players present a problem, it means its coaches fault. There is no real chances that all of them suddenly lost focus and lost their form simultaneusly, there is smth bigger going on here and we can easily guess what it is...

CR feels the pressure now, his throne is "tinking", his job is threatened, someone has to take the blame and the tactical choices and horrible transfer choices need a scapegoat. CR was always scared of the crowd yells, he was always scared to lose and that was the real reason he chanced his formation today, to appease fans and media, the ones who smell his fear and incompetence and criticise him merciless...
His time will come rather sooner than later...

The issues we presented today are not new, they are permanent and they persist, there should have been properly addressed at the appropriate time,
we had the necessary time and budget for this, but we chose to ignore them and we must be ready to pay the price for them...


-Manningher was good and he was probably the best choice this board has ever take!
-DC was finally present, delivered a lot of things offensively and he was generally our best performer in the defense
-Chiellini was forced to take 2-3 roles 1-2 CBs,2nd DM and Libero, he barely coped, he need a classy partner so that he can concentrate on his sector (thats the 1000th time i repeat that)
-Legro was injured and hopefully less serious than Mellberg
-Grygera was stable, better than last year, but still not as good as Zebina
-Knezevic was the reason Chiellini was so desperate
-Neddy was unfocused and was getting more desperate than the minute
-Camo plays without focus and determination lately and not even the Cl can change that, i wonder whats bugging him...
-Sissoko needs to be fed properly...
-Giovinco did all he could, being so young and vulnerable, the only thing the BATE players could do to stop him, was bullying him, Sissoko was supposed to be his bodyguard and the ref should not allow so many hard fouls against him unpunished. He was one of our best players on the field however and provided 2 assists!
-Iaquinta, we knew he wasnt quite on form, but these defenders are supposed to be an easy duty for him, comparing them to Italian defenses.
I ve always admired his header this time he took the best of his chance, for a change...
-DP, desperate, frustrated, uninspired, unlucky, unfocused
he cant deliver a miracle at every single match and this is what CR asks him to do, he must create, provide and finish by himself, well he cant do that all by himself. At this particular time we had the tools fielded to make things work, thats a pity we didnt use them...
-Amaury came too late and there was little he could do to help our situation, if he was brought earlier and we were to use the trident, subbing out one of our weaklings midfielders, then we might actually turn this game, but CR was too afraid to lose that one point, which is "better that nothing" as he sees it, what a loser...
 

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