Champions League 2016/2017 (46 Viewers)
- Thread starter GordoDeCentral
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I think at the time maybe Wegner was simply better than everyone else in England. Well him and Fergie. Then they started bringing in other good foreign coaches and he no longer stood out from the rest 
Props to him though, he did revolutionise the game in England when he arrived. He did change a lot of their football culture and practices for the better.
Props to him though, he did revolutionise the game in England when he arrived. He did change a lot of their football culture and practices for the better.
Oh i need plenty, I just prefer the results to do the talking
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Suuure "look like"
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No please not another lost final, my inexistant heart can't take another goal line fumble
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Suuure "look like"
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No please not another lost final, my inexistant heart can't take another goal line fumble
I cannot handle that heartbreak again. 3 lost finals with Gigi would be beyond devastating.
Their decline came much later, but they didnt win anything because the EPL was superstrong from 2005 up until Ronaldo left for Real. They did reach a CL final (which they would have won if not for the stupid Lehmann red imo) and another semifinal (vs the great United team). They declined around the time City came to power and bought the remaining of their good players they had left
From who?
And don't tell me it was an anonymous rep
And don't tell me it was an anonymous rep
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While I believe we are contenders and have the capability of making a deep CL run, all this nonsense about how we are favourites to win the CL, or how the only thing that can stop us is Allegri instilling the wrong mentality, etc. is just embarrassing.
Form Guide: Arsenal lack quality - the time for 'Wenger Out' has come
by Martin Laurence at Thursday, Feb 16 2017 12:10
Was this the final nail in the coffin? All the talk at Arsenal has surrounded Arsene Wenger, and whether he will extend his stay beyond the end of his contract, which expires in the summer.
The Frenchman has been subject of criticism from his own fans on countless occasions over the years but this time it feels very real. The sense that the Wenger era at the club may well be coming to an end is more apparent than ever and Wednesday night’s capitulation in Munich could prove to be vital in the legendary Gunners boss calling time on his tenure come the end of the season.
In truth, Wenger is still in the job through stubbornness as much as anything, as well as an unwavering self belief and faith in both the club and its players. For some time now though, that faith has seemed misplaced in numerous individuals.
There’s little doubt that Wenger has been waiting to end his Arsenal career on a high note that would ensure his final knockings leave a sweet taste rather than the sour one it would under the current circumstances. Notions that he could lead this side to a league title or, in an ideal world, the Champions League have fuelled Wenger’s appetite to remain at the Emirates.
Their latest humbling in Europe was a telling one though. The stats from the game in Munich, while actually pretty predictable, were embarrassing nonetheless. The fact that they committed just one foul in the entire second half may not seem like a particularly negative statistic but at a time when they were being completely overrun it points to an inability or, more worryingly, a lack of desire to get close to their opponents. As a result Arsenal allowed Bayern to attempt 784 passes to their 270, with central midfielder Francis Coquelin completing just seven.
It was an avoidable episode had Wenger looked to go out on some form of a high. He could have called time after winning the FA Cup against Hull, or indeed Villa the following year, and that trophy may have been enough had it come against a rival like United or Chelsea. As it was, while you can only beat what’s in front of you, there’s little doubt that the achievement will have felt less precious to the manager. The chance is still there to go out on the high of an FA Cup win this season, and in reality Wenger must face up to the fact that that’s as good as it could get.
He just doesn’t have the players to achieve something greater. He’s been too loyal to too many over the years and it’s left him with a squad that’s best hope is a top four finish and domestic cup win. That’s nothing to be scoffed at by any means, but the fans want more and if the club are to progress then they will need a manager that is willing to be far more ruthless.
Indeed, the thing that sets Arsenal apart in a negative sense to the rest of the top six is that they have one player that is so clearly better than the rest of the team. Chelsea have Hazard, but a case could be made that the likes of Costa and Kante are equally important. City have Aguero, De Bruyne, Silva. Mourinho can boast Pogba and Ibrahimovic among others and neither Spurs nor Liverpool fans would be united as to their prized asset.
With Arsenal, there is Alexis. If they were to lose him to injury for a prolonged period there would be very little debating that the Gunners would be in real trouble. Mesut Ozil is top class on his day but you rarely get more than half a season of his peak level, while Bellerin and Koscielny would have a chance of getting into the teams around them in the table.
Elsewhere Arsenal fall short. Petr Cech is understandably not the force he was at Chelsea, and while he rarely makes too many big mistakes, he can’t pull off the saves that the likes of De Gea, Lloris and Courtois can. Nacho Monreal is unlikely to be part of a title winning side, nor Oxlade-Chamberlain, Ramsey, Walcott and many more.
Alexis has both scored (17) and created (8) twice as many goals as any teammate in the league and while Arsenal still have the players to ensure that the goals wouldn’t dry up completely without him, the intensity to their play would drop so much. The gap in WhoScored rating between the first and second best performer at each of the top clubs is an idicator on how reliant the Gunners are on the Chilean.
Hazard is .25 clear of Costa, Pogba is .23 ahead of Ibrahimovic, while, the gap between Tottenham, Liverpool (both .05) and City’s top players (.04) is even less significant. In Arsenal’s case, Alexis’ admittedly outstanding league rating of 7.91 is .52 clear of Koscielny. While Arsenal have often had one player that could be identified as their best, in Thierry Henry’s case they always had players that were able to step up to the plate when called upon, which just isn’t the case now.
Arsenal’s squad is packed with good players but few great ones. To win a title with such a group you need a manager with incredible tactical organisation and attention to detail when out of possession that Wenger simply doesn’t possess and never has. His best sides had greatness and beauty where this one doesn’t come close and the manager must see that now.
This isn't the 'same old Arsenal' many are still labelling them. They're worse. In the past Wenger could rely, more often than not, on his side being able to outplay their opponents, with the customary cock up against sides they really should be beating epitomising the fans' frustrations. They're struggling to dominate matches by comparison nowadays, and it's reflection of the fact that teams are catching them up in terms of talent and technical ability, and even surpassing them in a number of cases. It's not a great drop off by any means, but Arsenal's pass accuracy this season is at its lowest in six years (83.5%).
An overhaul is needed and Wenger has proven time and again that he isn’t willing to do it. It’s now looking more and more evident that the overhaul needs to start with him as a result, and his stubbornness is seems increasingly likely to see an end to this era that the iconic boss was so desperate to avoid.
While a defeat at the Allianz Arena was to be expected, the manner of it was damning to both the squad and the manager. Were they not to pick up a third FA Cup trophy in four years it would be a bitterly disappointing end to what was a marriage made in heaven between the club and its coach. They adored each other, and while Wenger’s love for Arsenal remains untainted, if the current situation persists then the fans’ feelings won’t be reciprocal.
The break up is inevitable. He’s unequivocally earned the right to end it on his own terms but perhaps ‘Wenger out’ should come sooner rather than later
by Martin Laurence at Thursday, Feb 16 2017 12:10
Was this the final nail in the coffin? All the talk at Arsenal has surrounded Arsene Wenger, and whether he will extend his stay beyond the end of his contract, which expires in the summer.
The Frenchman has been subject of criticism from his own fans on countless occasions over the years but this time it feels very real. The sense that the Wenger era at the club may well be coming to an end is more apparent than ever and Wednesday night’s capitulation in Munich could prove to be vital in the legendary Gunners boss calling time on his tenure come the end of the season.
In truth, Wenger is still in the job through stubbornness as much as anything, as well as an unwavering self belief and faith in both the club and its players. For some time now though, that faith has seemed misplaced in numerous individuals.
There’s little doubt that Wenger has been waiting to end his Arsenal career on a high note that would ensure his final knockings leave a sweet taste rather than the sour one it would under the current circumstances. Notions that he could lead this side to a league title or, in an ideal world, the Champions League have fuelled Wenger’s appetite to remain at the Emirates.
Their latest humbling in Europe was a telling one though. The stats from the game in Munich, while actually pretty predictable, were embarrassing nonetheless. The fact that they committed just one foul in the entire second half may not seem like a particularly negative statistic but at a time when they were being completely overrun it points to an inability or, more worryingly, a lack of desire to get close to their opponents. As a result Arsenal allowed Bayern to attempt 784 passes to their 270, with central midfielder Francis Coquelin completing just seven.
It was an avoidable episode had Wenger looked to go out on some form of a high. He could have called time after winning the FA Cup against Hull, or indeed Villa the following year, and that trophy may have been enough had it come against a rival like United or Chelsea. As it was, while you can only beat what’s in front of you, there’s little doubt that the achievement will have felt less precious to the manager. The chance is still there to go out on the high of an FA Cup win this season, and in reality Wenger must face up to the fact that that’s as good as it could get.
He just doesn’t have the players to achieve something greater. He’s been too loyal to too many over the years and it’s left him with a squad that’s best hope is a top four finish and domestic cup win. That’s nothing to be scoffed at by any means, but the fans want more and if the club are to progress then they will need a manager that is willing to be far more ruthless.
Indeed, the thing that sets Arsenal apart in a negative sense to the rest of the top six is that they have one player that is so clearly better than the rest of the team. Chelsea have Hazard, but a case could be made that the likes of Costa and Kante are equally important. City have Aguero, De Bruyne, Silva. Mourinho can boast Pogba and Ibrahimovic among others and neither Spurs nor Liverpool fans would be united as to their prized asset.
With Arsenal, there is Alexis. If they were to lose him to injury for a prolonged period there would be very little debating that the Gunners would be in real trouble. Mesut Ozil is top class on his day but you rarely get more than half a season of his peak level, while Bellerin and Koscielny would have a chance of getting into the teams around them in the table.
Elsewhere Arsenal fall short. Petr Cech is understandably not the force he was at Chelsea, and while he rarely makes too many big mistakes, he can’t pull off the saves that the likes of De Gea, Lloris and Courtois can. Nacho Monreal is unlikely to be part of a title winning side, nor Oxlade-Chamberlain, Ramsey, Walcott and many more.
Alexis has both scored (17) and created (8) twice as many goals as any teammate in the league and while Arsenal still have the players to ensure that the goals wouldn’t dry up completely without him, the intensity to their play would drop so much. The gap in WhoScored rating between the first and second best performer at each of the top clubs is an idicator on how reliant the Gunners are on the Chilean.
Hazard is .25 clear of Costa, Pogba is .23 ahead of Ibrahimovic, while, the gap between Tottenham, Liverpool (both .05) and City’s top players (.04) is even less significant. In Arsenal’s case, Alexis’ admittedly outstanding league rating of 7.91 is .52 clear of Koscielny. While Arsenal have often had one player that could be identified as their best, in Thierry Henry’s case they always had players that were able to step up to the plate when called upon, which just isn’t the case now.
Arsenal’s squad is packed with good players but few great ones. To win a title with such a group you need a manager with incredible tactical organisation and attention to detail when out of possession that Wenger simply doesn’t possess and never has. His best sides had greatness and beauty where this one doesn’t come close and the manager must see that now.
This isn't the 'same old Arsenal' many are still labelling them. They're worse. In the past Wenger could rely, more often than not, on his side being able to outplay their opponents, with the customary cock up against sides they really should be beating epitomising the fans' frustrations. They're struggling to dominate matches by comparison nowadays, and it's reflection of the fact that teams are catching them up in terms of talent and technical ability, and even surpassing them in a number of cases. It's not a great drop off by any means, but Arsenal's pass accuracy this season is at its lowest in six years (83.5%).
An overhaul is needed and Wenger has proven time and again that he isn’t willing to do it. It’s now looking more and more evident that the overhaul needs to start with him as a result, and his stubbornness is seems increasingly likely to see an end to this era that the iconic boss was so desperate to avoid.
While a defeat at the Allianz Arena was to be expected, the manner of it was damning to both the squad and the manager. Were they not to pick up a third FA Cup trophy in four years it would be a bitterly disappointing end to what was a marriage made in heaven between the club and its coach. They adored each other, and while Wenger’s love for Arsenal remains untainted, if the current situation persists then the fans’ feelings won’t be reciprocal.
The break up is inevitable. He’s unequivocally earned the right to end it on his own terms but perhaps ‘Wenger out’ should come sooner rather than later
I think we have a chance, as long as we stay focused and don't underestimate the opposition. Our defense is probably the best in the competition, and our attack is arguably up there with the best of them (especially if we consider Barca as good as done). Our midfield might be a slight concern, but we have an experienced coach who should be able to get the best out of the players at our disposal, deploying the appropriate formation as the competition progresses. However, we have to negotiate Porto first, get some luck, hope for a favorable draw, avoid injuries, and generally have everything fall into place
Teams that weren't particularly the best when they won it over the past 15 years:
Milan (03, 07), Porto (04), Liverpool (05), Inter (2010), Chelsea (2012), and Real Madrid (2016).
Teams that weren't particularly the best when they won it over the past 15 years:
Milan (03, 07), Porto (04), Liverpool (05), Inter (2010), Chelsea (2012), and Real Madrid (2016).
I think we have a chance, as long as we stay focused and don't underestimate the opposition. Our defense is probably the best in the competition, and our attack is arguably up there with the best of them (especially if we consider Barca as good as done). Our midfield might be a slight concern, but we have an experienced coach who should be able to get the best out of the players at our disposal, deploying the appropriate formation as the competition progresses. However, we have to negotiate Porto first, get some luck, hope for a favorable draw, avoid injuries, and generally have everything fall into place
Teams that weren't particularly the best when they won it over the past 15 years:
Milan (03, 07), Porto (04), Liverpool (05), Inter (2010), Chelsea (2012), and Real Madrid (2016).
Teams that weren't particularly the best when they won it over the past 15 years:
Milan (03, 07), Porto (04), Liverpool (05), Inter (2010), Chelsea (2012), and Real Madrid (2016).
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