Carlos Tevez (23 Viewers)

[DAiDEViL]

We seem to be ok with people in most professions acting like "mercenaries" if we define that as moving to another employer for higher pay, better benefits. But for footballers, no, they have to be "loyal" to their employers(the clubs). I'm not going to pretend my instinct doesn't make me hate the likes of Adebayor, Ashley Cole, Van Persie and co, whom I and the vast majority of Arsenal fans call "mercenaries". But if you really think about it, how is that any different than what most of us do in our professional lives?

i only expect them to respect their contracts, signed by themselfs.


how many people on tuz only live for money?
pathetic, really.

 

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[Azzurri7]

Apart from his love for Boca, Tevez has always been a mercenary. The question is if that is wrong?

It's obvious he could not have had the career he had and the money he earned if he stayed at Boca. He needed to play at a higher level and went to England. He wanted to win prizes and joined us. He did his job here. Now he's considering to go back to the love of his (football) life.

I do not see what's so wrong with that?

Nothing wrong at all and I fully understand him, but he has to make up his fucking mind.

 

[DAiDEViL]

I think there are two things that make people think differently when it comes to football players:

1) They're supposed to be passionate about their club. We know they aren't always, but we're fans, so we like it when they're fans too. As irrational as that may be.
2) When you play for a club as Juventus, it's not as if you're poor. If PSG come around, they might offer you more. But you earn millions here too. We think that means you should let emotion decide, because you're rich at either club.

because it’s true.

 

[Ramin]

While some reports said that he will decide by wednesday, its unlikely any decision will be made until Coppa America is done.

 

[Fred]

I think there are two things that make people think differently when it comes to football players:

1) They're supposed to be passionate about their club. We know they aren't always, but we're fans, so we like it when they're fans too. As irrational as that may be.
2) When you play for a club as Juventus, it's not as if you're poor. If PSG come around, they might offer you more. But you earn millions here too. We think that means you should let emotion decide, because you're rich at either club.

For your 2nd point, would you extend the same logic to other professions. You're a lawyer, right? If you were working for one of the large law firms in Belgium, would you be completely loyal to that firm, or would you be willing to move to another one if the other offered you more, assuming other non monetary factors were more or less the same?

All I'm saying is we wouldn't begrudge a software engineer moving from Apple to Samsung, but god forbid a player moves from one club to another for a better deal all of a sudden becomes blasphemy.

i only expect them to respect their contracts, signed by themselfs.


how many people on tuz only live for money?
pathetic, really.

If he goes for a higher salary, it doesn't always mean money was the only contributing factor, it could be the major factor, but not necessarily the only factor. But let's be rational about this for a moment; if you were working for a large company, would you be completely loyal to them. What if another company in a city you prefer to live in, came in with a substantially higher offer. Now I don't know if you personally would take it, I do know most people will, and you wouldn't have a problem with it in most professions. But as soon as its football, we instinctively change the way we look at these things.

 

[ZoSo]

For your 2nd point, would you extend the same logic to other professions. You're a lawyer, right? If you were working for one of the large law firms in Belgium, would you be completely loyal to that firm, or would you be willing to move to another one if the other offered you more, assuming other non monetary factors were more or less the same?

All I'm saying is we wouldn't begrudge a software engineer moving from Apple to Samsung, but god forbid a player moves from one club to another for a better deal all of a sudden becomes blasphemy.




If he goes for a higher salary, it doesn't always mean money was the only contributing factor, it could be the major factor, but not necessarily the only factor. But let's be rational about this for a moment; if you were working for a large company, would you be completely loyal to them. What if another company in a city you prefer to live in, came in with a substantially higher offer. Now I don't know if you personally would take it, I do know most people will, and you wouldn't have a problem with it in most professions. But as soon as its football, we instinctively change the way we look at these things.

So what you're saying is Tevez should play for Arsenal...

 

[Seven]

For your 2nd point, would you extend the same logic to other professions. You're a lawyer, right? If you were working for one of the large law firms in Belgium, would you be completely loyal to that firm, or would you be willing to move to another one if the other offered you more, assuming other non monetary factors were more or less the same?

All I'm saying is we wouldn't begrudge a software engineer moving from Apple to Samsung, but god forbid a player moves from one club to another for a better deal all of a sudden becomes blasphemy.

Oh, but I think it's silly. It's different if you're Del Piero or Totti. But if you are, you earned many millions more by becoming a symbol for the club anyway. For a guy like Tevez, who was 29 when he arrived, that was never going to happen. I see nothing wrong in him wanting to leave. The question becomes how though. If he tries to annoy Juventus into terminating his contract, I can't say I approve of such behaviour. But he's done it before, so it's not as if it's a big surprise.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

Apart from his love for Boca, Tevez has always been a mercenary. The question is if that is wrong?

It's obvious he could not have had the career he had and the money he earned if he stayed at Boca. He needed to play at a higher level and went to England. He wanted to win prizes and joined us. He did his job here. Now he's considering to go back to the love of his (football) life.

I do not see what's so wrong with that?

then 99% of the players are mercs, thus rendering the term itself meaningless

I think there are two things that make people think differently when it comes to football players:

1) They're supposed to be passionate about their club. We know they aren't always, but we're fans, so we like it when they're fans too. As irrational as that may be.
2) When you play for a club as Juventus, it's not as if you're poor. If PSG come around, they might offer you more. But you earn millions here too. We think that means you should let emotion decide, because you're rich at either club.

he is passionate about one club, boca, and he never hid that fact. He still played for us like his life depended it on and left it all on the field. But tevez was never the kind to pretend to be a juventus fan or anything like that.

i only expect them to respect their contracts, signed by themselfs.

how many people on tuz only live for money?
pathetic, really.

oh yeah kinda like how clubs do so with players and managers? it's a 2 way street you know

 

[Seven]

then 99% of the players are mercs, thus rendering the term itself meaningless



he is passionate about one club, boca, and he never hid that fact. He still played for us like his life depended it on and left it all on the field. But tevez was never the kind to pretend to be a juventus fan or anything like that.

Of course 99% of the players are mercenaries. They play for money. It's their job. And I agree. Tevez never lied or hid anything.

 

[DAiDEViL]

if you were working for a large company, would you be completely loyal to them. What if another company in a city you prefer to live in, came in with a substantially higher offer. Now I don't know if you personally would take it, I do know most people will, and you wouldn't have a problem with it in most professions. But as soon as its football, we instinctively change the way we look at these things.

thank god i am not like most people then.

 

[Fred]

thank god i am not like most people then.

We all say that. Some of us have realized that actually, we are like most people.

So can we expect you to stay with one employer for the rest of your life?

Most of us football fans are very irrational when it comes to these things. We expect players to be loyal to clubs, but not clubs to players. You want Tevez to be loyal to Juventus, but you don't care if De Ceglie is, you don't mind disposing of him, now do you? Where did the loyalty go? Or is loyalty only important insofar as it benefits the club you support?

 

[DAiDEViL]

...

i stop right here.

cause i do not want to

Derail threads where there is serious discussion going on.

also it seems pointless to argue with you
you are free to believe whatever you want.

 

[Fred]

i stop right here.

cause i do not want to



also it seems pointless to argue with you
you are free to believe whatever you want.

First of all, we're not derailing the thread. This is perfectly on topic, we are discussing the concept of "loyalty" in football, in a thread about a player who doesn't seem to have much "loyalty" to his clubs, as it is defined by most football fans.

As for me being free to believe what I want. I believe what I do, because most research on the subject points towards the idea that money, even though it usually isn't the #1 reason people work in certain jobs/ at certain companies, it definitely is one of the major reasons. You can be as idealistic as you want, as you said, you're free to believe whatever you want, no matter how irrational.

 

[Ocelot]

We seem to be ok with people in most professions acting like "mercenaries" if we define that as moving to another employer for higher pay, better benefits. But for footballers, no, they have to be "loyal" to their employers(the clubs). I'm not going to pretend my instinct doesn't make me hate the likes of Adebayor, Ashley Cole, Van Persie and co, whom I and the vast majority of Arsenal fans call "mercenaries". But if you really think about it, how is that any different than what most of us do in our professional lives?

There are limits as to how the profession of a football player is similar to your ordinary day job though, making these comparisons pretty much unfit for an argument in this discussion.

 

[Fred]

There are limits as to how the profession of a football player is similar to your ordinary day job though, making these comparisons pretty much unfit for an argument in this discussion.

But why shouldn't players look out for their interests as much as people from other professions? Why do they owe their clubs more than a lawyer would owe his law firm, or a doctor the hospital that employs him? You say it's different, and like I said at the very start, I won't lie and say I don't hold anything against Van Persie and co, I'm like any other football fan, I can't seem to find any rational argument for it though, only emotional ones.

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there you go, i gave you a +rep. you won.

now stop talking to me and

go pray to your god: :money::money::money::money:

Check your rep.

 

[Xperd]

Imo a perfect example of a mercenary right now is Gundogan.That guy has rejected Barca and Bayern because apparently he doesnt get the wage he deserves and both teams were offering a pretty good paycheck.I mean seriously who does this guy think he is ? Considering he's been irrelevant for two yrs now pretty much.This is definitely mercenary behaviour for me.
The funny thing of it all is some idiotic EPL side will stump up the cash if needed.Footballers do really live in a lucky world these days.

Whereas in a normal profession,you cant afford to do that for the most part unless you have decades of work experience behind you where you can wait it out and can afford to look out for your own interests.

 

[Zacheryah]

He signed a 3 year deal, and was going to Bocrap, after that. That was the deal. I'm fine with that.
If he said at the start of last season it was his last one. I'd be fine with that.


At the end of the season, he suddenly wants to leave now.

No, i dont accept that.

 

[j0ker]

He signed a 3 year deal, and was going to Bocrap, after that. That was the deal. I'm fine with that.
If he said at the start of last season it was his last one. I'd be fine with that.


At the end of the season, he suddenly wants to leave now.

No, i dont accept that.

And just a couple of weeks ago he said that he wants to respect his contract here.

 

[Dino_mk]

But why shouldn't players look out for their interests as much as people from other professions? Why do they owe their clubs more than a lawyer would owe his law firm, or a doctor the hospital that employs him? You say it's different, and like I said at the very start, I won't lie and say I don't hold anything against Van Persie and co, I'm like any other football fan, I can't seem to find any rational argument for it though, only emotional ones.

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Check your rep.

Biggest flaw in your logic is fact that if u have contract with the law firm or hospital and want to go work probono or cure african children for free, you personally will pay the fine for terminating the contract.
If your new employee is pis poor and don't want to pay for termination of the contract than u mast be professional and work hard till the end.
Bitching and causing troubles just to be fired is the problem in our case.

 

[LiquidPLP]

If Tevez's mind is already in Argentina he should leave definitely. No point in keeping an unmotivated player on high wages. I'm happy with the two years he was here but if he leaves it won't be the end of the world. It could turn out to be just like with Conte who was seen as superior to Allegri but the man lost his motivation.

If Tevez leaves I hope we put our money fully on Dybala to partner Morata. However we'll need a proper AM to compensate for the Tevez loss.