Calciopoli or Morattopoli.. inter fake orgasm (14 Viewers)

[Alen]

15 months ago the least i cared about were the 2 scudetti. I cared about not being relegated and not losing our champions. I was ready to risk 2 scudetti for serie A and Zambrotta,Cannavaro and the likes.

But now..... serie B is behind us, i don't care about the lost players and i i'm sure that we'll never prove to non-Juve fans that we weren't guilty. They will always think we're guilty.
Proving to the world that we were innocent is a lost battle.
But proving on court that we were sentenced with serie B even though we didn't deserve it is something we shouldn't stop trying.
For nothing else, but for the 2 scudetti. We can't achieve much, all we can get back are the two scudetti.
That's the only logical reason i find for the activity of gsol and people similar to him.

 

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[gsol]

When will the trial start?

The appeal was accepted in July. I'm not sure what the official trial start date is.

 

[gsol]

There is another reason. Financial restitution could prove vital to the team's future projects.

 

[JCK]

The appeal was accepted in July. I'm not sure what the official trial start date is.

Are you sure the trial will start?

 

[Lion]

There is another reason. Financial restitution could prove vital to the team's future projects.

I did not think of that. Good point.

 

[gsol]

Are you sure the trial will start?

It has been accepted and no members have a desire to retract.

 

[Vimto]

Gsol will there be a image restitution?

 

[Enron]

Gsol will there be a image restitution?

Probably not, at least not admittedly.

 

[gsol]

That's up to us to do

 

[JCK]

Us?

 

[Vinman]

There is another reason. Financial restitution could prove vital to the team's future projects.

wishful thinking....

 

[JuveAdam]

Go to other forums, this is the only one where I encounter all this resistance. The Italian forums especially where the people had more of a chance to inform themselves sound a lot more like me than you.

Go to other forums? Why? So you can continually ignore my questions? On Italian forums they sound more like you than me? Thats because, as others have posted many times over, Italy is full of whacked out conspiracy theorists who love nothing more than to say "they" are behind it. Its all deluded rubbish, we were guilty of unsporting conduct, which you yourself admit, a sporting trial punished us, yes too harshly, yes without evidence, but therin lies the point. A sporting trial requires NO evidence, no proof, suspiscion is enough. The womens world 400m champion is banned for life from the Olympics for missing a drug test, no proof she has ever been near drugs, bang, lif ban. Rio Ferdinand forgot to see the doc for a test, bang 8 month ban. Read this;

"Fair Play" is the name of a FIFA programme which aims to increase sportsmanship as well as prevent discrimination in the game of football.

The principles of the Fair Play programme can be summarised as follows

Play fair
Play to win but accept defeat with dignity
Observe the Laws of the Game
Respect opponents, team-mates, referees, officials and spectators
Promote the interests of football
Honour those who defend football’s good reputation
Reject corruption, drugs, racism, violence, gambling and other dangers to our sport
Help others to resist corrupting pressures
Denounce those who attempt to discredit our sport
Use football to make a better world

Please note

respect officials - lock them in toilet?
defend footballs reputation - they think we were corrupt, now know 100% we are not
Reject dangers to our sport - Moggi was too powerful, now hes gone
Help others resist corrupting pressures - remove the biggest team, the little ones (Lazio/Fiorentina) would go bust if punished the same & as such will clean up & not risk anything similar again.
denounce those who attempt to discredit our sport - think Serie B sends that message pretty clear

My point is this. You can waffle on about article 4 & 6, their relevance & the punishments that should have followed certain violations, but the facts are clear. We were bending the limits of sporting fair play, of good conduct, time after time, season after season. As such, we were dealt with quickly & harshly in order to send a msg to us, calcio & the football world in general that Italy wont tolerate blatant cheating. Due to the time restrictions involved (CL deadlines etc) the FIGC acted quickly to ensure teams in place with no possibility of any negative comeback. Your whole arguement is basically

"no evidence was there to prove we broke any rules, but if there was, we were punished worse than everyone else"

who cares what happens to Inter, Milan, Lazio & the rest? Not me, I am a Juve supporter who now knows beyond a shadow of doubt that all our results are achieved fairly, are genuine & will never be discredited. The serie B championship was my 2nd favourite title in all my time as a Juventino (after CL '96) precisely due to that fact. We've been under suspiscion for years, but that serie B title was earned the hard way, with loyal, world cup winning players staying in Turin & fighting for a cause they, & I believed in.

If this thread had to do with basketball...........

I get upset when a guy like Denco shows up admitting he doesn’t speak Italian meaning he has no comprehension of the trial documents..............

Denco use common sense and accept your limitations. I wrote what was found. I cited actual legal documents and more.

1) you never talk about football so what difference would it make?

2) But Im sure you've posted all the evidence in English for the very reason that guys like Denco who dont speak the language can form their own opinion? If you dont like that opinion, dont post it. Reap what you sow!

Most Juve fans were and are outraged and don't think nothing will happen

Most Juve fans I know (& seen as I am a regular at games thats quite a few, where you spend all your time posting in this thread) believe we were definately guilty of unsporting conduct & took the demotion with dignity. Those same fans now hold the belief the club is clean, they can hold their heads high, time served for previous crimes.

Moggi wasn’t even supported by the FIAT group which is why they gave the team no money for 7 years.

At that time the FIAT ownership were struggling themselves financially, as the Stylo was bombing. The borad had also taken the decision for the club to be self-financing after the huge Tamoil & Nike deals were secured. Another slice of your conspiracy that is just "fluff" when you dig a little.

If Juve cheated as they say, then we cheated prior to 2005, no doubt in my mind. If that is the case, then you should be ashamed of yourselves for supporting a team that has cheated and robbed players and fans alike of fair competition.

If the board members cheated we shouldn't support the team we love? The team a lot of us supported from birth, the team our Fathers, Grandfathers & so on have followed for generations? That is a ridiculous comment. Its like saying "if you dont like Capello's Juve, follow Barca" We are Juventini, not Moggi fans, we know he was dodgy, most of us liked it, but we love the club & who are you to question that?

 

[denco]

This story was nearly 10 years in the making and has nothing to do with soccer and everything to do with money, power, and politics. I'm involved in various activities revolving around Calciopoli and have become somewhat of an expert in the topic. I'm fluent in Italian and as a result have been able to go through archives of newspaper articles, interviews, and books (written by lawyers). The most evidence you will get however is in reading the declarations and sentences left by the judges that presided over the trials and appeals. Most Juventus and Anti-Juventus fans (outside of Italy) have no idea that no shred of evidence existed linking Moggi and company to a single fixed game. Most people are unaware of the judge's declaration that "no game was fixed and referee selections were legitimate" Cesare Ruperto CAF judge. So why the punishments? Equally puzzling, why did Milan get a slap on the wrist after Meani threatened a linesman over the phone "when Milan is on the field keep your flag down unless the ball is on the opposite side of the field otherwise we'll chop your head off" Leonardo Meani. Why was an Inter investor and former Inter employee allowed to control the trial? This man Guido Rossi not only omitted evidence that would have cleared Juventus but discarded evidence that would have condemned his former employers (Inter). Do people know that there was phone tap evidence of Udinese and Milan organizing a tie? Do people know that there was phone tap evidence of Galliani and Collina meeting personally after hours at Meani's restaurant? Do people know the same man that sponsors Italian soccer through his ownership of TIM Mobile managed to intercept the phone calls that would eventually be used against Juventus? Do they know that he gave them to his partner (Moratti) illegally through a police officer who sanctioned the intercepts and then ordered that they be altered or destroyed in cases where Inter were incriminated? Eventually a security employee at Telecom Italia confessed to the shady wire taps and the police officer killed himself on July 21st 2006 (his name was Adamo Bove). Does anyone know that the wire taps were never listened to in court despite Juventus defense requesting it? When Juventus requested to use video evidence it was denied too. People are in the dark on this case because it is convenient to many to believe that their team was losing because someone else was cheating...others are unwillingly in the dark because evidence is hard to find and hard to understand (unless you are fluent in Italian). As a result I have been strongly considering writing a book in English regarding the case (now known in Italy as Farsopoli). I am questioning the level of public interest however. It would take months to put together and I'd hate to do it for nothing. For now though feel free to ask me whatever you want and I'll do what I can to shed light on the situation. I'm more than happy to answer your questions. For now I'd suggest reading this article which helps understand why the media painted such an ugly picture of Juventus. http://www.goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=299625 Let me know what you think. If you get anything out of this article it should be the web of power Juve were up against. Here are some names in powerful positions just to give you an idea:

- FIGC President (at the time): Franco Carraro (ex-Milan President and co owner of Lazio/Roma through his control of Capitalia Credit Bank)
- La Lega Calcio President: Adriano Galliani (Milan Vie President)
- Italian Referees Association (AIA) President: Tulio Lanese good friend and political affiliate of Silvio Berlusconi and known Milanista (known on wire taps as Tulio “miLanese”)
- FIGC Referee Designers: Bergamo and Pairetto underlings of Carraro, Lanese, and Galliani as evidenced by the wire taps…now Collina after secretly meeting with Galliani assumed that role
- Prime Minister (at the time): Silvio Berlusconi who controls several TV stations, magazines, and newspapers, as well as controlling one of Italy’s biggest political parties (Forza Italia). Through his TV station ownership Berlusconi controls all Soccer TV rights (therefore ad revenue) for all teams competing in Serie A and B (this would later be used as blackmail to keep Milan in the Champions League).
- Italian Soccer Sponsor: Tronchetti Provera (massive Inter shareholder and personal friend of Moratti) owns Telecom Italia and its sister company TIM Mobile and which not only provided Inter owner Moratti with phone intercepts but also sponsors all soccer competition in Italy (Serie A TIM, Coppa Italia TIM, Supercoppa Italiana TIM)…also owns Pirelli Tires (Inter primary sponsor) and also owns LA7 (major Italian TV Station)
- Federcalcio (FIGC Investigations) President: Borelli, a political associate of Berlusconi and discovered having meetings behind closed doors with Galliani throughout the trial
- Federcalcio Commissioner: Guido Rossi, major Inter shareholder and former Inter director also sat on Telecom Italia’s board of directors
- President of la Gazzetta dello Sport: Carlo Bore also acting as Vice President of Inter
- Editor and Chief of la Gazzetta dello Sport: Verdelli and Cannavo’ both Inter shareholders
- Vice President of Federcalcio: Massimo Moratti Inter Owner
- Current Commissioner of the Federcalcio Investigating Inter for Accounting Fraud: Stefanini acting lawyer for La Spezia soccer team (40% of which is owned by Moratti)

So...still sound like a "Moggi controlled system"?

Finally (and believe me there is still WAY more to the story) I want to inform you of what our team was actually accused of. The accusation of match fixing revolved around three games. This is key to the case and all but proves how ridiculous it was.

Game 1: Lecce-Parma – yes you read right. The game has nothing at all to do with Juventus but this game allowed Fiorentina to survive Serie A in 2005. The ccusation is that the Moggi controlled referee De Santis fixed the match at the request of Moggi after Della Valle (Fiorentina owner) asked Moggi for help. Moggi actually can’t stand De Santis and De Santis can’t stand Juventus. It was De Santis (admitted Interista) that disallowed a legitimate Juventus goal in the Italian Supercup costing Juve the trophy and handing it to Inter wrongfully. All intercepted phone calls regarding this game showed Della Valle contacting Bergamo (referee designer) and Carraro (FIGC president) and Mazzei (FIGC Vice President) directly with no mention of Luciano Moggi.

Game 2: Juventus-Udinese – the actual “fixed” game was Udinese-Bologna the week before. The idea was for the Moggi controlled referee to give yellow cards to Udinese players that were already carrying yellow cards so that they couldn’t play against Juventus. The players handed yellow cards that day were Pinzi and Di Michele. In actual fact neither was carrying yellows and both were on the field against Juventus the following match day.

Game 3: Juventus-Sampdoria – here the accusation was that the Moggi controlled referee allowed an offside goal to stand granting Juventus a 1-0 win over Sampdoria. The game actually ended 0-1 for Sampdoria with Aimo Diana scoring an offside goal. The result can be found on espn.com still today.

To close it should be noted that both Cesare Ruperto (CAF judge) and Piero Sandulli (Federal Court judge) declared that no system of pre-planned yellow cards existed and that no game was fixed by referees. It was also expressed that referee designations occurred throughout the season regularly. In other words the season was legit. The phone calls showed unsportsmanlike conduct by all parties but this is an Article 1 offense punishable by a 1 to 3 point deduction and a possible fine.

Finally the CAF sentence declared that “though no Article 6 offense can be found in the investigation, the overall conduct of Moggi and Giraudo (the latter heard on 3-5 phone calls mostly about nothing) created an unsportsmanlike environment favorable to Juventus in the standings AS EVIDENED BY THEIR 1ST PLACE FINISH IN THE SEASON IN QUESTION”. This is like saying that driving is proof of being a car thief. In the end the sentence tried to lead us to believe that Juventus obtained an unfair advantage in the standings without conditioning referees or fixing a single game…mysterious no?

Feel free to ask me anymore questions. By the way...there isn't a single recorded conversation between Moggi and a referee or linesmen with one exception; Paparesta called Moggi to apologize after a mistake of his cost Juventus a game against Reggina. Moggi said one line "I have nothing to say to you" and hung up.

I enjoy shedding light on these matters so feel free to share my points with others and ask me whatever you like.

FORZA JUVE!

This was your very first post that I saw on this forum and it says you are considering writing a book. I asked you that if what this was about was your book but you denied ever mentioning that you are writing a book and you said we do not even know your name

I thought I was going out of my mind because I was sure you said somehing about writing a book, this is just 1 of many shilly shally things that you have done on here.

I just did a minor research, not major like you and saw that Moggi was alleged to have made 400 calls a day which amounted to an approximation of 100,000 phone calls a year.

But you made it come across that they listened to 100,000 phone calls and found nothing incriminating.

You also posted a transcript of a discussion between Meani and Galliani, but all Galianni was saying was ah or ho, he never incriminated himself and like you said Milan used the loophole that Meani does not work for them directly so how do you expect them to be punished.

If Galliani was the one making those statements then Milan would have gone down, no matter what influence they have.

Since when does a team get punished because their players failed a drug test as you were going on about Kallon and Boriello?

I did not get what you were trying to say when you said Inter just got a slap on the wrist.

I also noticed that Cesare Ruporte is 81 years old and people could easily say he is senile but thats another issue

I was wondering who gui della juve or lay your hands off juve are because you keep posting their article but they are hardly impartial. And just like you what they are saying is evidence is not, its just supposition.

I was interested in GEA World and saw a post that someone did in 2003, it is not someone jumping on the bandwagon after calciopoli and slamming Juve after the fact and you can see what he said about the origins of GEA world, quite different I may add to your interpretation but I wanna know which of you is right

http://www.firsttouchonline.com/jj/jjseriea10.html

Now let us assume that Morratti was behind the illegal wiretaps, Vimto, said Facchetti was caught speaking to 1 of the referees tring to fix games. Now call me crazy but why would anyone spy on his own director of football and incriminate his own team or better yet even if those tapes existed why did they not destroy them.

Personally if I wanted to sow the seed of doubt on Moggi, I would have just said he was using phonecards not SIM cards if I have no proof on tape that he did anything incriminating like you continue to tell us.

Well Like JuveAdam put it, you don;t to prove anything in football, suspicion is enough.

Rio Ferdinand's silence in his way of appeal was deafening cos if he was innocent he would have gone ballistic just as

 

[gsol]

First of all I can’t find a single example of a question I ignored. Remember that unsportsmanlike conduct is what we were found guilty of but not what we were sentenced for. If we were Juventus would have lost 3-5 points not two titles. Don’t say that a sports tribunal needs no evidence. By that note I say we wait until someone we like is in charge at the FIGC and then accuse Moratti of match fixing so they get relegated. The accusation according to you is enough to get the job done.
Please note

respect officials - lock them in toilet? What part of the Paparesta story didn’t you read. That didn’t happen according to surveillance cameras and Paparesta declaration in court.


Reject dangers to our sport - Moggi was too powerful, now hes gone. No my friend he wasn’t powerful enough. Want to see power look at those who remained not those who got 5 year bans. If he was powerful he’d be sitting next to Galliani. He was too good at reading players and recruiting talent and now he’s gone but he’ll be back.

Help others resist corrupting pressures - remove the biggest team, the little ones (Lazio/Fiorentina) would go bust if punished the same & as such will clean up & not risk anything similar again.
Plenty of little clubs have been relegated in the past like the ones you named above plus Genoa recently and countless others. Besides, officiating today is statistically worse than Moggi’s era so removing Juve solved nothing.

denounce those who attempt to discredit our sport - think Serie B sends that message pretty clear. It would if it was Juve that was discrediting the sport. It was actually the Federcalcio that discredited it. The message sent was “what you do on the field can be erased with or without proof of any wrongdoing”.
You misquoted my argument. There was no grounds for relegation. Unsportsmanlike conduct isn’t cheating. It’s conduct deemed unsportsmanlike. Calling a referee an asshole, and accusing other directors (Fiorentina’s Della Vale brothers) of being faggots does not mean the same as cheating. You are going to have to brush up on your definitions. The point of Calciopoli was to do what the guardia della finanza couldn’t do when Juve were found not guilty of fraudulent accounting. It was to do what DIGOS couldn’t do when they investigated Juve’s alleged doping. They were found not guilty but the powerful in Italian soccer needed Juve in B. Enter Calciopoli where Juventus were found guilty of Article 1 violations (harshly criticizing officials and directors) and charged for match fixing. You can argue that it is fair as much as you want or that the FIGC wanted to send a message but you can blow that out your ass because the FIGC can send a message to whoever they find guilty of cheating…not arbitrarily punish at will whoever the public and the powerful want to see in B.
People’s opinion is meaningless to me by the way. It’s when I get treated like a crazy conspiracy theorist that I react (note look up conspiracy because once something is proven it becomes a fact). The rest of the time people pose questions or comments aimed at discrediting my argument. They in turn are dismantled.

 

[gsol]

“This was your very first post that I saw on this forum and it says you are considering writing a book. I asked you that if what this was about was your book but you denied ever mentioning that you are writing a book and you said we do not even know your name.”
I never denied considering writing a book. I just said I haven’t written one yet. So what?

“I just did a minor research, not major like you and saw that Moggi was alleged to have made 400 calls a day which amounted to an approximation of 100,000 phone calls a year. But you made it come across that they listened to 100,000 phone calls and found nothing incriminating.”
Again ya, there were 100,000 recordings. Keep in mind they eliminated all the calls to his doctor, wife, etc. The court received 100,000 calls linked to soccer from the Neapolitan Prosecutors. Really not sure what you are trying to say here.

“You also posted a transcript of a discussion between Meani and Galliani, but all Galianni was saying was ah or ho, he never incriminated himself and like you said Milan used the loophole that Meani does not work for them directly so how do you expect them to be punished.”
Meani was a paid employee from the 90’s. He was on their payroll. I see you are defending Milan again though…

“Since when does a team get punished because their players failed a drug test as you were going on about Kallon and Boriello?”
If the team’s medics provide the drugs it becomes a relegation case. With Kallon and Borriello that was never investigated.

“I did not get what you were trying to say when you said Inter just got a slap on the wrist.”
Not surprised. When Recoba was found to have a fake passport provided by Inter director Orialli the team was to receive a 3-0 loss for every game he played in. Instead he got a suspension and a fine.

“I also noticed that Cesare Ruporte is 81 years old and people could easily say he is senile but thats another issue”

I agree. He convicted an innocent team and admitted it. In TV interviews like that of “Lunedi di Rigore” he just laughs about it.

“I was wondering who gui della juve or lay your hands off juve are because you keep posting their article but they are hardly impartial. And just like you what they are saying is evidence is not, its just supposition.”

Can you please stop pretending to speak Italian? Finding excerpts of a sentence that claim that there was no match fixing and then being sentenced for it is not suspicion. It’s a proven fact.

“Now let us assume that Morratti was behind the illegal wiretaps, Vimto, said Facchetti was caught speaking to 1 of the referees tring to fix games. Now call me crazy but why would anyone spy on his own director of football and incriminate his own team or better yet even if those tapes existed why did they not destroy them.”
they weren’t spying on Facchetti they were spying on Bergamo and Facchetti called him.

“Personally if I wanted to sow the seed of doubt on Moggi, I would have just said he was using phonecards not SIM cards if I have no proof on tape that he did anything incriminating like you continue to tell us.”
More personal opinions…it’s a fact they have no recorded calls regarding the Swiss SIMs

“Well Like JuveAdam put it, you don;t to prove anything in football, suspicion is enough.”

So Juve’s relegation was right?

 

[gsol]

I read the article. It harshly criticices Milan and then talks about GEA. It’s not wrong (except Moggi’s position since he was among the directors but not the President for a while) and there were 250 contracts towards the end…maybe when he wrote the article it was less.
Point is it is outdated. That was the corporate structure when it started. In 2004 Geronzi took over about 73% and the rest was divided by the figures I listed prior (plenty of teams in Serie A had a stake). I’m not here to defend GEA. I’m saying if they were crooked, plenty of teams were benefitting from it. Keep in mind of the 250 + players and coaches less than 15 ever plassed through Juve and most were there prior to the creation of GEA.

 

[denco]

My goodness you are good you gave answers to all except the GEA which you would no doubt come to later

You denied writing a book when I brought it up and if you can deny something this obvious what else would you deny or just gloss over like you have been doing.

Always you bring up the non Italian speaking issue, what has that got to do with anything.

The fact of the matter is guida della juve is not talking for everybody, they have their agenda and good luck to them in their endeavours.

Was relegation of Juventus right?

Does that matter there is absolutely nothing we can do about it now, we played there and that is the end of the matter.

You see no matter how you try to gloss over the issue your arguments are technicalties and I was not defending Milan, I was showing you that they got off on a technicality.

If you cannot understand the difference between Moggi and Giraudo being implicated and a minor player like Meani then what is the point?

 

[denco]

I read the article. It harshly criticices Milan and then talks about GEA. It’s not wrong (except Moggi’s position since he was among the directors but not the President for a while) and there were 250 contracts towards the end…maybe when he wrote the article it was less.
Point is it is outdated. That was the corporate structure when it started. In 2004 Geronzi took over about 73% and the rest was divided by the figures I listed prior (plenty of teams in Serie A had a stake). I’m not here to defend GEA. I’m saying if they were crooked, plenty of teams were benefitting from it. Keep in mind of the 250 + players and coaches less than 15 ever plassed through Juve and most were there prior to the creation of GEA.[/QUOTE]But that is not the point the guy was making, it does not matter if they passed through Juventus, his point was that players were being blackmailed to be part of the agency which was run by Moggi's son.

Now you claim there were 250 players in that agency meaning Moggi had control of 250 PLAYERS.

That is too much and please let us be objective here, the possibilities of corruption is way too high.

For the record Milan are dirty we all know that but that is not the point we are talking about Juventus' innocence not if we are the only ones that are guilty.

And no I don't have any evidence of Milan's guilt, well hard evidence anyways but when you are watching games and you see decisions, you kind of wonder

 

[gsol]

My goodness you are good you gave answers to all except the GEA which you would no doubt come to later

You denied writing a book when I brought it up and if you can deny something this obvious what else would you deny or just gloss over like you have been doing.

hahahahahahahahaha

I should just let you keep hanging yourself. I answered the GEA question, next time read. And I never claimed I wrote a book either. I claimed I was considering writing one. You just keep reading what you want to.

As I've said before you are out of arguments. Just cut your losses.

By the way I asked if Juve's relegation was right? You evaded the simple yes or no answer with another run around.

Was it right?

Yes or NO

 

[gsol]

I read the article. It harshly criticices Milan and then talks about GEA. It’s not wrong (except Moggi’s position since he was among the directors but not the President for a while) and there were 250 contracts towards the end…maybe when he wrote the article it was less.
Point is it is outdated. That was the corporate structure when it started. In 2004 Geronzi took over about 73% and the rest was divided by the figures I listed prior (plenty of teams in Serie A had a stake). I’m not here to defend GEA. I’m saying if they were crooked, plenty of teams were benefitting from it. Keep in mind of the 250 + players and coaches less than 15 ever plassed through Juve and most were there prior to the creation of GEA.[/QUOTE]But that is not the point the guy was making, it does not matter if they passed through Juventus, his point was that players were being blackmailed to be part of the agency which was run by Moggi's son.

Now you claim there were 250 players in that agency meaning Moggi had control of 250 PLAYERS.

That is too much and please let us be objective here, the possibilities of corruption is way too high.

For the record Milan are dirty we all know that but that is not the point we are talking about Juventus' innocence not if we are the only ones that are guilty.

And no I don't have any evidence of Milan's guilt, well hard evidence anyways but when you are watching games and you see decisions, you kind of wonder

No Moggi didn't control the contracts of 250 players. Was Moggi the only agent? Not by a long shot. 250 players went through the agency that 10 or so different entities ranging from banks, to investors to sponsors controlled.

You keep thinking Moggi and Juve controlled GEA world...re-read the corporate structure I posted.