Calciopoli or Morattopoli.. inter fake orgasm (25 Viewers)

[JuveAdam]

Juveadam

You need to stop calling my posts fluff and then agreeing with them. You are confusing. First you criticize what I say and then you totally agree with it. You yourself said that all they were found guilty of was unsportsmanlike conduct and that they were punished too harshly…so why are we arguing?

Please don’t make comments like “they had evidence but hid it” which is against the law or “in a Sport’s Tribunal there is no need for proof” which makes the trial itself totally pointless.

In the end you too agree with me but for some reason have to criticize me. Not sure I get you.

FFS!

In about a hundred posts Ive put that we are saying the same things, but that everytime I post you put 3 page reply of waffle discrediting me, not the other way round, its you who are the confused one(s).

 

Buy on AliExpress.com

[Alen]

In other words Manchester United are a huge success in Europe if we are gonna bring Semi finals, and finals into it.

After all Manchester United got to a lot of semis and the only final they got to , they won it.

You ask a Manchester United fan whether they have been a success then they would tell you no.

How is getting to semis and finals of a competion regarded as a success if coming 2nd in the league is not?

Winning the domestic league is light years away from being the same thing as winning CL.
If you're superior in your league it shouldn't by any means mean that you must win CL at the same time.
Getting to semis and finals of CL means that your team is indeed a great one. The final itself is an one off match against another great team, the semifinal is a 2 legs duel with another great team, and what's more important, against team that isn't from your own country ( it's the case in 99/100 matches).
If you keep winning the league and getting into the final, semi or even quarters of CL then there's no reason to be suspicious.
It would have been suspicious if a team like Inter that made it only once to the semis of CL in last God knows how many years was constantly winning CL.

It is all about winning and as far as Juve's pedigree is concerned, we have underachieved in Europe compared to our serieA dominance

We underachieved, indeed, but it's everything but a reason to suspect that our lack of CL trophies is the proof that we cheated to win domestic trophies.
Just take a look how many times in last 10 years the winner of cl was the winner of the domestic league in the respective season. Just take a look at the finalists from last years and how good they did in their domestic competition. Lately it turns out to be that you must concentrate only on one competition in order not to fail in all competitions you're taking part in.
Liverpool and Milan played the final last year. Liverpool finished 21 points behind EPL winners , Milan finished 36 points behind serie A winners.
I'm using examples from last years because these last 5-6 years are the period you're being suspicious of.
We did good in serie A but we failed in Europe because it was close to impossibile to do equally great in both of them. If we gave up from serie A in order to do good in CL then maybe we would have won the damn thing. But we decided to go after both trophies and as it turns out to be, it's not very likely to do that. Except for Barcelona in 2006, teams that win CL or play in the final are usually teams that lost their chances to win the domestic league sometime in February, March or early April.

We have only won it twice, just 1 more than Celtic. 4 times less than Liverpool, 5 times less than Milan the list is endless and this is pointless tbh

The final itself is always a 50-50 match. If we were better than Milan on penalties and if we've beaten one of Real/Dortmund we would have now had 4 CL trophies.
What would have people thought then ? They won 4 CL titles, they didn't cheat in serie A ?
Or if we didn't beat Ajax on penalties, what would people think then ? They are cheaters because they have only 1 CL and 29 scudetti ?
Small details decide these things and yet people get tricked by the numbers.
Numbers do lie sometimes !

My point is that if we were dominant in Europe as well as in serieA, there would not be grounds for suspicions but we get whooped 3-1 by panathinaikos and hamburg, werder bremen taking us to the cleaners football wise

Oh, come on.
Milan, the serie A winners in 1999 were last placed in their group consisted of teams like Hertha and Galatasaray in the same year. The superior Bayern wins only 2 points in their group in 2002/03, Milan the serie A winners in 2004 were raped by Deportivo in La Coruna 4:0. What about Arsenal's dream team from few years ago ? How come they were so superior in EPL and were being humiliated in CL ?

English fans are left scratching their heads as to how we could be so dominant in SerieA and getting stuffed by Newcastle and I am not talking about the scoreline

Tell them to start scratching their heads over the CL success of the EPL winners in the last 20 years.
How come the EPL season winner made it only once to the CL final in the year when they won the CL ?
I want to say that domestic success is a whole different world from CL success.
It's quality+consistency vs quality+luck.

After that season, no, our success has been shady in my eyes

Even if it was, CL success has nothing to do with it Denco and you shouldn't take CL failure ( by failure i mean not winning it or not playing in the final) as a proof of us cheating.

You're taking the period after 1998, right ?
Years from 1999-2006 ?
Well, lets take a look.
In 1999 we finished 8th in serie A and we played CL semifinal
In 2000 we didn't even play CL and we were second placed in A, losing the damn thing in the last round
In 2001 we were eliminated from CL groups, but we didn't win serie A back then so i really don't understand what are you implying with your examples of Panathinaicos and Hamburger. We were bad in CL and we didn't win serie A
In 2002 we were eliminated from CL in March but we won serie A in last round after Inter blew their chance by themselves. This season is probably the only example where what you're implying may be valid
In 2003 we won serie A and lost the CL finals on penalties, playing without the world player of the year, Pavel Nedved. What's so shady here ?
In 2004 we were bad in CL and bad in Italy. In CL we were eliminated by La Coruna, the same team that eliminated Milan in the next round. If Milan got La Coruna in last 16 and we got them in the quarters, would you have founded suspicious how come Juve made it further in CL than the serie A champions ?
In 2005 we won Serie A and were eliminated by Liverpool in the quarters of CL. Milan, the team from which we've "stolen" Serie A keep repeating that how come we won serie A and we were so bad in CL while they played in CL finals.
But weren't Milan defeated by the same team that eliminated us ? Wasn't Milan again lucky to get Liverpool later than we did ?
In 2006 we were so superior in serie A that it's a crime to imply that we cheated. Both us and the second placed team in serie A were eliminated by the CL finlists. Again, Milan's luck was that they got the CL finalists later than we did.

 

[gsol]

gsol, just out of curiousity, if Juventus were in fact guilty as charged (of match fixing) would you agree that we should have been relegated?

Purely hypothetical question of course (with view to your staunch insistence on our innocence). A yes or a no will do.

Absolutuely Yes.

 

[gsol]

Here’s a piece of news for some here. Someone here has changed his argument about a half a dozen times from “we were guilty” to “they hid the evidence” to “we should have been relegated with or without evidence” to “we should have been relegated because we won the league seven times and Europe only once” Kudos.
This is for you then;
Denco you claim we won because favorable referees were provided to our directors by the referee designers and that in Europe since we didn’t have that pull we were only good enough to make 4 finals in ten years. Are you aware that the exact same referee designer found on the phone with our director was the European referee designer as well? Yup Gigi Pairetto was the referee designer for the Champions League.
Why then would he not have helped us get by Liverpool in the 05 quarters when Del Piero’s onside goal was called back wrongfully?

JuveAdam,
Make sure you twist this around and post it back to me even though you agree. Don’t forget to call it waffle or some other lame shit ok.

 

[ZAF3000]

gsol, just out of curiousity, if Juventus were in fact guilty as charged (of match fixing) would you agree that we should have been relegated?

Purely hypothetical question of course (with view to your staunch insistence on our innocence). A yes or a no will do.

First of all sorry for taking the liberty of answering a question which was clearly asked to someone else..

I hate cheating.. I would rather have Juventus not win than cheat.. I do beleive that we did not commit those allegations. My beleif is based on facts which I dag long time ago in addition to what gsol has kindly presented.

If juventus were guilty as charged I would still wouldn't be happy with the relegation.. Why? Because it wouldn't have been fair.. To let AC Milan go with match fixing (and god knows what Inter has been doing), Lazio and Roma with financial briberly and accountant fixing and god knows whoelse, then just relegate Juve is simply unjust.... Now what if Juve were not guilty as charged yet relegated (which is our present case)?..

The whole trial was a big joke.. A really silly one.. And we were the clown in it.

 

[denco]

Here’s a piece of news for some here. Someone here has changed his argument about a half a dozen times from “we were guilty” to “they hid the evidence” to “we should have been relegated with or without evidence” to “we should have been relegated because we won the league seven times and Europe only once” Kudos.
This is for you then;
Denco you claim we won because favorable referees were provided to our directors by the referee designers and that in Europe since we didn’t have that pull we were only good enough to make 4 finals in ten years. Are you aware that the exact same referee designer found on the phone with our director was the European referee designer as well? Yup Gigi Pairetto was the referee designer for the Champions League.
Why then would he not have helped us get by Liverpool in the 05 quarters when Del Piero’s onside goal was called back wrongfully?

JuveAdam,
Make sure you twist this around and post it back to me even though you agree. Don’t forget to call it waffle or some other lame shit ok.

What would he have done? Gone on the streets with his underpants over his head shouting that Juventus were cheated out of a goal?

The decision had been made there is no way o overturn it.

@Alen

I appreciate the effort you have put in what you posted but you are talking about end results, i was talking about performances and results.

I told you not to bring Epl into it because Epl teams do not generally do well in Cl in terms of winning and for the record EPL TEAMS ARE NOT ON TRIAL FOR SCANDAL.

Now lets us briefly talk about teams that do well in the championship and Cl, Juventus have for years set out to win the Cl more than the SerieA, we can deny it but it is true if we were to pick 1, Cl is the 1 that we have set out to win.

The examples you have put out are teams that have prioritised concentrating on Cl in terms of Liverpool and Milan of late so its not really the same thing.

We lost to panathinakos and hamburg but were still competitive in serieA as you gusy have said in the past Collina cost us the title by letting us play Perugia. It was the same season.

The next season we lost to Roma in serieA but did little or nothing in Cl

The season that you guys are being so selective about talking about Nedved missing the final. Vimto actually said it was a plan for Juventus to fail.

The only match we played very well in was Real madrid at home and even in that game Figo missed a penalty and Raul and Ronaldo were not fit but of course it is always 1 sided on this forum.

We were totally outplayed by Barcelona in the previous round and only some heroic defending by Thuram and incredible misses by Luis Enrique saved our bacon to win the game with Zalayeta.

@gsol what are you going on about with chelsea and Liverpool? What history has Chelsea got? Besides noone accused them of manipulating referees so your argument is moot but yet again you completely miss the point as always

With the wikipedia, yep we should totally ignore every other evidence apart from the ones that you post as they are all biased unlike yours.

Give over man

 

[denco]

Here’s a piece of news for some here. Someone here has changed his argument about a half a dozen times from “we were guilty” to “they hid the evidence” to “we should have been relegated with or without evidence” to “we should have been relegated because we won the league seven times and Europe only once” Kudos.
This is for you then;
Denco you claim we won because favorable referees were provided to our directors by the referee designers and that in Europe since we didn’t have that pull we were only good enough to make 4 finals in ten years. Are you aware that the exact same referee designer found on the phone with our director was the European referee designer as well? Yup Gigi Pairetto was the referee designer for the Champions League.
Why then would he not have helped us get by Liverpool in the 05 quarters when Del Piero’s onside goal was called back wrongfully?

JuveAdam,
Make sure you twist this around and post it back to me even though you agree. Don’t forget to call it waffle or some other lame shit ok.

What the hell is this guy talking about? I have never wavered from my argument, we are guilty and I am not interested in all the jargon you keep waffling.

You keep indirectly looking for people to back you up.

Newsflash you have your people that believe your one-sided stories , I am just not 1 of them and the more you post, the more alienated I become as nothing is that clearcut as you are making it out to be.

All those Sim cards that Moggi had from Slovenia and other countries i guess that was untrue

And i guess is not true that he gave sim card to Pairetto and if it is true as the referee has said he did, why is he giving referees sim card or is that untrue as well

For the upteempth time your documents or so called facts are too pro Juventus to be believeable and they dont give any scope for people to read and make up their minds, they just want to make your mind up for you

 

[gsol]

What would he have done? Gone on the streets with his underpants over his head shouting that Juventus were cheated out of a goal?

The decision had been made there is no way o overturn it.

@Alen

I appreciate the effort you have put in what you posted but you are talking about end results, i was talking about performances and results.

I told you not to bring Epl into it because Epl teams do not generally do well in Cl in terms of winning and for the record EPL TEAMS ARE NOT ON TRIAL FOR SCANDAL.

Now lets us briefly talk about teams that do well in the championship and Cl, Juventus have for years set out to win the Cl more than the SerieA, we can deny it but it is true if we were to pick 1, Cl is the 1 that we have set out to win.

The examples you have put out are teams that have prioritised concentrating on Cl in terms of Liverpool and Milan of late so its not really the same thing.

We lost to panathinakos and hamburg but were still competitive in serieA as you gusy have said in the past Collina cost us the title by letting us play Perugia. It was the same season.

The next season we lost to Roma in serieA but did little or nothing in Cl

The season that you guys are being so selective about talking about Nedved missing the final. Vimto actually said it was a plan for Juventus to fail.

The only match we played very well in was Real madrid at home and even in that game Figo missed a penalty and Raul and Ronaldo were not fit but of course it is always 1 sided on this forum.

We were totally outplayed by Barcelona in the previous round and only some heroic defending by Thuram and incredible misses by Luis Enrique saved our bacon to win the game with Zalayeta.

@gsol what are you going on about with chelsea and Liverpool? What history has Chelsea got? Besides noone accused them of manipulating referees so your argument is moot but yet again you completely miss the point as always

With the wikipedia, yep we should totally ignore every other evidence apart from the ones that you post as they are all biased unlike yours.

Give over man

As usual…you missed the point. If they were cheating through him in Italy why wouldn’t they have thought to do so in Europe?
Don’t act like you knew what the season’s objectives were every year either. They always tried to win both.
My Chelsea remark is to make you understand how stupid your CL analysis is and how it has no place in this thread other than the fact that you don’t know what else to write.
The wikepedia isn’t to be ignored. It’s just limited as hell. It’s 1 page out of potentially thousands. There is nothing there but a very general overview of what we already know. You call that evidence? Read it again and again if you like it but it tells us nothing that we didn’t already know. Cute how you call that evidence yet the trial documents are not.
“Give over man”…have you completely lost your mind? You’ve been destroyed. Your argument has been reduced to “we sucked in Europe (despite going to the CL final 4 times) so we obviously cheated”. I said pages ago that you ran out of steam. You have nothing to back up your claim but you continue to post here only reducing what little credibility you could possibly have. Every single point you tried to make got completely derailed by actual facts and you avoid concrete arguments like that of Pairetto being the same in Europe as he was in Italy.
Learn to accept defeat. You should have accepted that pages ago.
Hey if you want to keep publically hanging yourself go ahead. I’ve had an easy time discrediting you.

 

[gsol]

"What the hell is this guy talking about? I have never wavered from my argument, we are guilty and I am not interested in all the jargon you keep waffling."

No dunce, we were found not guilty. not according to jargon but trial documents that you can't understand.

"You keep indirectly looking for people to back you up."

No I have evidence that does that already. Peole just back me up because they recognized that...you should too.

"Newsflash you have your people that believe your one-sided stories , I am just not 1 of them and the more you post, the more alienated I become as nothing is that clearcut as you are making it out to be."

No you are alienated because I made you look like a retard. In truth you did that to yourslf but you blame me.

"All those Sim cards that Moggi had from Slovenia and other countries i guess that was untrue"

Again with the already discredited SIM card bullshit. How many times do you have to read that a) it's not illegal to have international SIM Cards and b) the tables that were used against Moggi showed signs of being generated by a computer...NOT A PHONE!

"And i guess is not true that he gave sim card to Pairetto and if it is true as the referee has said he did, why is he giving referees sim card or is that untrue as well"

That's not true. All referees and designers were not given those cards by Moggi. Many in fact claimed to have had one before even Moggi did. See the De Santis interview on T9.

"For the upteempth time your documents or so called facts are too pro Juventus to be believeable and they dont give any scope for people to read and make up their minds, they just want to make your mind up for you"

Ya a document that relegates Juventus to Serie B while admitting to having no proof of match fixing is "pro Juve"

Once again you've outdone yourself. hahahahahahahaha

 

[Bjerknes]

As usual…you missed the point. If they were cheating through him in Italy why wouldn’t they have thought to do so in Europe?
Don’t act like you knew what the season’s objectives were every year either. They always tried to win both.

You're starting to become particulary annoying now.

I've already stated it once in this thread, but I'll say it again: dig a 5-foot hole, find 10 bodies. Dig a 10-foot hole, maybe you'll find 40. It would be completely idiotic to try to cheat outside of your own niche and compound the possibility of being caught. There are limits to everything and every intelligent person in this world knows their limits. Therefore, this whole defense comparing different competitions is absurd.

And I wouldn't say that denco is losing in this discussion. Nobody here knows the whole truth regarding this whole debacle, because if you did, you wouldn't be writing about it on a forum.

Instead of acting like you know the whole story, why not take a more neutral approach and admit that you don't know the entire truth of the events over the past decade. Yes, our punishment was indeed harsh and perhaps we deserve some reparations, but to prance around acting like Juventus or Moggi was the epitome of honesty and fair-play over the past decade just doesn't add up. Especially considering other clubs were seemingly in as much shit as we were.

 

[Bjerknes]

And I'm tired of hearing bullshit such as, "well other clubs cheated as well, so we shouldn't have been the only club to be given such a harsh penalty." What is this, third grade? Acting like a bunch of spoilt bitches while tears stream down our faces? Fess up and act like fucking men for a fucking change. If we did indeed do wrong, accept the fact and move on.

If we didn't actually do anything wrong, then we have a whole other argument to propose in our defense. But this "they started it" bullshit is extremely annoying and it's no wonder why people think Juventus fans are a bunch of gloryhunters.

 

[gsol]

And I'm tired of hearing bullshit such as, "well other clubs cheated as well, so we shouldn't have been the only club to be given such a harsh penalty." What is this, third grade? Acting like a bunch of spoilt bitches while tears stream down our faces? Fess up and act like fucking men for a fucking change. If we did indeed do wrong, accept the fact and move on.

If we didn't actually do anything wrong, then we have a whole other argument to propose in our defense. But this "they started it" bullshit is extremely annoying and it's no wonder why people think Juventus fans are a bunch of gloryhunters.

Take it up with Denco...he brought up the CL as if it had any relevance here.

No denco definitely has had every potential argument crushed and I am positive I know more than he does based on what I've been exposed to and what he has. I'm writing in a forum (among other places) because I can. Why wouldn't I? Where should I write?

I don't pretend to know everything. i just know that I know more than most. I'm not acting like anyone was the epitome of honesty. I'm stting that Juve were not guilty of what tehy were sentenced of and the trial documents clearly state that.

I am not using the "other teams did it too" approach. Remember that I stated that NO MATCH FIXING occured in the 2004-2005 season as stated by the trial documents. that clears the other squads as well.

 

[Eddy]

gsol, is there any chance you can make a presentation with pictures, documents, videos etc.. with all the proof you have and post it up here or on youtube ?

 

[gsol]

I can't upload mp3 or pdf files here. But I have provided it to all those that have asked. Let me know if it interests you too. Just PM me.

 

[Vinman]

WHERE IS PAUL WHEN WE NEED HIM ????

 

[Lucky Luke]

where is GOD when we need him?

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

WHERE IS PAUL WHEN WE NEED HIM ????

good point

 

[Bozi]

WHERE IS PAUL WHEN WE NEED HIM ????

currently undergoing an extremely gruelling ordeal in a dentists chair?

 

[Respaul]

currently undergoing an extremely gruelling ordeal in a dentists chair?

Theres nothing like originality Bozi...

Hows tricks ?

 

[Vinman]

Theres nothing like originality Bozi...

Hows tricks ?

wow...ask and you shall receive

Paul, after over a year of this ordeal, whats your take on it all ??