Calciopoli or Morattopoli.. inter fake orgasm (59 Viewers)

[gsol]

What's next is the fight in the European Court of Commerce where Giu Le Mani Dalla Juve (shareholder created legal entity appealing the verdicts). So far we have been accepted (as of the summer of 2007) into the court and are currently being heard. They have the power to overturn what the FIGC decided. Time will tell. Actual trials take a long time so I doubt we will hear a verdict for 12-18 months.

As far as the Elkan brothers...both are heartless investors who are only involved because of their position with FIAT but that is my opinion. What you were referring to was the desire of the Juve fans to have Andrea Agnelli (their cousin) take over the team. According to reports the two sides of the family ar very much devided so I don't know what will occur.

 

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[Cronios]

Are Cuban pete and gsol the same person??

Nah, Cuban pete can quote, while gsol cant
though, this thread gives me the double accounts feeling too...

 

[gsol]

have a mod check IP addresses...that's the confirmation of double accounts. Wouldn't bother me. I only have one

 

[gsol]

its a possibility bumblaster

 

[Enron]

Dude, don't respond to this childish posts...I mean Vito Corleone, u should bring MIKI on LOL The TRUTH will come out, sooner than latter...I mean, come on guys, r u blind, dont' u know how todays world works??At list be more open minded...
Good example is ERON...Yeee shore (sarcasm), the chairman is a vary good friend whit Dick Cheney who is ,u know the Vice President of the USA, to bail his ass out...Ok not exactly the same thing but u know where i'm getin at...Corruption is every where (specaily in the world, that we are living now), and who better to do it, than those ppl (the untouchables) who got alot of money and resource to cover the whole ting up, just to benefit from all...and thay still wont more an more...Money is power...Open u'r eyes and see this thing 4 what is it ...a conspiracy...

A better example instead of the Enron scandal would be Cheney's connection to Haliburtan and their prophits and government contracts gained after the invasion of Iraq.

 

[Pingo]

A better example instead of the Enron scandal would be Cheney's connection to Haliburtan and their prophits and government contracts gained after the invasion of Iraq.

Yeah that to, but u got the point, right? Enron We are going off topic...Topic is Juve and Farsopoli...

 

[gsol]

I'll post a more recent example of the FIGCs different tratment of Juventus.

Not too long ago a wiretapp was released revealing a possible fixed Lazio match. The wiretap led to an investigation into Article 6 violations. The papers are already stating that if found guilty Lotito (Lazio's President) could face a 3 month suspension.

I'm not here to debate whether or not Lazio fixed a match...I don't really care. The point is...where is the relegation, the point deduction etc etc?

Why is it that for the exact same charge the punishment requested for Lazio is so much less than what Juve went through?

 

[Enron]

Yeah that to, but u got the point, right? Enron We are going off topic...Topic is Juve and Farsopoli...

I got the point. Just wanted to help you out with a better example.

 

[JCK]

Burke, read the first page again! Only read it!!!

 

[denco]

If I was the one carrying out this crusade of injustice then I want some questions that nagged to be answered satisfactorily.

Never mind the coming together of the characters involved are intertwined together 1 way or another and and seem to be controlling a lot.

The questions would be

1) SIM Card

Gsol has quoted what Moggi said as his excuse, this is not GSol's interpretation or opinion, it was what Moggi said

Moggi said he had the SIM cards to protect LEAKAGE of transfer dealings

a) This means that Moggi was aware that that his phone was being tapped so why allow yourself to be caught saying anything remotely incriminating on the phone

Or even more worrying is it not possible that when Paparesta called him to speak on the phone and he hung up abruptly, is it not possible that he called Paparesta back on a more secure phone? Because as Gsol has said Moggi was aware he was being bugged

b) Juventus, this season have been 1 of the teams that have been the hardest done by with decisions going against them, i think its 5 penalties awarded against them.

Now what Gsol has posted here should be known in Italy and the referees too should be aware that Juventus were hard done by according to Gsol so why are they still punishing us?

The thing is if we were innocent then the referees woud show us more sympathy but if we were guilty, conscioulsy or sub consciously the referees would be punishing us because in their minds we brought the game to disrepute so any little incident they spot, they are likely to want to punish us and that is what is happening.

The fact that neutrals are acting against us does not bode well for our pleas of innocence but as our manager and board keep saying we are STILL being punished for calciopoli, still being the operative word.

The Sadaam analogy was brought up because a Sadaam supporter can bring up dossiers that are facts which would bring all the relatonships between US, GB, the present Iraqi regime, financial gain, political power and it would be just as compelling as what GSol has put forward here.

Of course it will not be the whole truth because that would not help the case of the defence, it will be the truth as the defence sees it.

I am not trying to prove anyone guilty or anything like that but too many questions left unanswered

 

[gsol]

a) This means that Moggi was aware that that his phone was being tapped so why allow yourself to be caught saying anything remotely incriminating on the phone

Or even more worrying is it not possible that when Paparesta called him to speak on the phone and he hung up abruptly, is it not possible that he called Paparesta back on a more secure phone? Because as Gsol has said Moggi was aware he was being bugged

He didn’t say incriminating things on the phone. Remember that once listened to in their entirety that judges and magistrates alike cleared them of any illicit activity.

What if scenarios are useless. If he spoke with Paparesta later by payphone or not isn’t something we are getting into. You can’t prove it and I can’t disprove it. We could do that forever. What we know is that Paparesta called him and gt hung up on inside of 30 seconds. Besides, he allegedly already had his secure line.

He didn’t say incriminating things on the phone. Remember that once listened to in their entirety that judges and magistrates alike cleared them of any illicit activity.

What if scenarios are useless. If he spoke with Paparesta later by payphone or not isn’t something we are getting into. You can’t prove it and I can’t disprove it. We could do that forever. What we know is that Paparesta called him and gt hung up on inside of 30 seconds. Besides, he allegedly already had his secure line.

 

[gsol]

b) Juventus, this season have been 1 of the teams that have been the hardest done by with decisions going against them, i think its 5 penalties awarded against them.

Now what Gsol has posted here should be known in Italy and the referees too should be aware that Juventus were hard done by according to Gsol so why are they still punishing us?

The thing is if we were innocent then the referees woud show us more sympathy but if we were guilty, conscioulsy or sub consciously the referees would be punishing us because in their minds we brought the game to disrepute so any little incident they spot, they are likely to want to punish us and that is what is happening.

The fact that neutrals are acting against us does not bode well for our pleas of innocence but as our manager and board keep saying we are STILL being punished for calciopoli, still being the operative word.

- I’m sorry is that an actual question? Are you trying ti tell me that you know exactly how the referees think. “If they were innocent they would be more sympathetic”…Denco I think that’s enough. If you can’t piece these things together I can’t help you. You don’t realize who controls the referees (Collina)? I need to tell you that if Juventus came back to win the Scudetto that Calciopoli would be even further discredited and they likely won’t allow that? Come on.


by the way i won't say this again. Evidence to convict saddam of crimes against humanity existed. it's not about a popularity contest, "supporters can create a dossier..." based on what. They televised executions there so what could they possibly say? Confessions left right and center...don't compare the two. Moggi has no evidence against him.

 

[gsol]

Denco I think this debate was over a while ago. You are clinging to something, anything to keep your argument alive but if this was a boxing match the referee would have called it for TKO a long time ago. Now what if scenarios?
Denco if I understand correctly, you have trouble believing this because you don’t believe that an unlawful trial could relegate a team in Italy. Fine, be naive. I’m almost jealous because I might be too cynical but I know one thing. My country and Italy do not work the same. I understand you are in the UK. There are plenty of Italian immigrants there. Ask them how crooked their legal system is and then consider that this wasn’t even the actual legal system, it was a sports judiciary commissioned by a rival club.
You are among the few who think it was legit.
In any case, refrain from asking questions by inventing scenarios. It’s a sign of a poor argument. I would just let it go. Don’t get offended but I really think you’ve run out of steam.

 

[Desmond]

What I don't get is how we've then failed to plead this supposed innocence. What was with the pleas of a reduced sentence, or as denco said the board and Ranieri saying that we are still being punished for Calciopoli. Aren't these in themselves admissions of guilt?

 

[gsol]

No they are admissions of submission.

I don't want to repeat posts but go back and read the Inside Job post. There were people at FIAT that did benefit from this and no matter how much others don't want to believe it, when you put it all together it makes sense.

Now Juventus can't appeal because they retracted their Civil Court appeal last year. Any legal action on their part is now over.

 

[denco]

Denco I think this debate was over a while ago. You are clinging to something, anything to keep your argument alive but if this was a boxing match the referee would have called it for TKO a long time ago. Now what if scenarios? Denco if I understand correctly, you have trouble believing this because you don’t believe that an unlawful trial could relegate a team in Italy. Fine, be naive. I’m almost jealous because I might be too cynical but I know one thing. My country and Italy do not work the same. I understand you are in the UK. There are plenty of Italian immigrants there. Ask them how crooked their legal system is and then consider that this wasn’t even the actual legal system, it was a sports judiciary commissioned by a rival club.
You are among the few who think it was legit.
In any case, refrain from asking questions by inventing scenarios. It’s a sign of a poor argument. I would just let it go. Don’t get offended but I really think you’ve run out of steam.

Wow, you are an opponent and the referee now?

You would declare yourself the winner by TKO because my manager threw in an imaginary towel?

Run out of steam? What are you kidding?

You have just diving and weaving and throwing in all sorts of conspiracies and your argument is there is no what if as neither can prove or disprove.

Then your throw in concession but not admission

You throw in compromise but not head on fights

Now you bring in Collina and say he is against Juventus.

The same Collina that said Juventus' goal against Torino was legit when that is open to interpretation, the same Collina that banned the referee against Napoli for a month.

I am not sure what you are talking about anymore, you say if Juventus wins scudetto then caliopoli would have failed.

But from your arguments and documents, the exact opposite is true if we are to believe you.

You see according to you, the whole idea was to get Moggi and Giraudo out so that Juventus could be controlled by a more friendly board.

According to you that had happened as this present board has conceded to everything from being in league with Gazetta to all the other stuff you brought up so why should it matter to Collina and all the other guys as we are now part of the system that brought down Moggi which is the object of Calciopoli anyways according to you

 

[gsol]

Collina said that goal was fair because it was but Collina has always been an anyti-juventino and has done little to hide it. Clearly though he wasn't going to change the rules to make Juve look bad. When he was asked if the goal was legit he answered yes because the rules say so. For Bergonzi he repremanded him the way all referees would be for making such terrible decisions. That wasn't special treatment Denco it was standard.

Winning the scudetto right away would show that Juventus never needd Moggi's "tricks" to win. If they could do it this year with a significantly weaker squad than few could question the previous two titles. Let's just say it wouldn't lend credibility to the trial.


Again you're all over the place. A more gracious person would just accept the fact that your "arguments" led to nothing. Everything you tried to hit me with I have responded to without dodging and weaving. You are trying to use senseless analogies and "what if" scenarios rather than giving me the satisfaction of just admitting that you do not have a formidable argument.

My argument is clear. It is supported by a lot and I have posted a significant amount of indicators from third party sources that lend credibility to my arguments. You on the other hand are taking any direction possible to avoid saying what you know needs to be said.

Calciopoli was a farse. It was created by those who would eventually benefit from it. No proof that could result in relegation was found in ovr 100,000 telephone calls, months of surveillance and countless financial audits. You can try another analogy if you wish, you can try some more "what ifs" if it suits you but the points I made remain constant. I repeat Calciopoli was a farse.

You claim I'm dodging and weaving when I have answered everything asked of me.

Now I ask you...what is your point?

Be clear and transparent. You are arguing for a reason. What is the point you are trying to make? No analogies or what ifs...just plain english.

What is your point?

 

[Pingo]

Wow, you are an opponent and the referee now?

You would declare yourself the winner by TKO because my manager threw in an imaginary towel?

Run out of steam? What are you kidding?

You have just diving and weaving and throwing in all sorts of conspiracies and your argument is there is no what if as neither can prove or disprove.

Then your throw in concession but not admission

You throw in compromise but not head on fights

Now you bring in Collina and say he is against Juventus.

The same Collina that said Juventus' goal against Torino was legit when that is open to interpretation, the same Collina that banned the referee against Napoli for a month.

I am not sure what you are talking about anymore, you say if Juventus wins scudetto then caliopoli would have failed.

But from your arguments and documents, the exact opposite is true if we are to believe you.



According to you that had happened as this present board has conceded to everything from being in league with Gazetta to all the other stuff you brought up so why should it matter to Collina and all the other guys as we are now part of the system that brought down Moggi which is the object of Calciopoli anyways according to you

Dude, give the :faq2: up...He owns u...U didn't give one good peace off evidence, that Moggi is guilty, o yaeh and the judges sead soo (thay didn't find any thing on the tapes)...So why didn't you provide any evidence?? Because there aren't any...

You see according to you, the whole idea was to get Moggi and Giraudo out so that Juventus could be controlled by a more friendly board.

Friendly for who? For Juve? We did win 7 scudetti, playd 4 time in CL finale, win 1 CL etc., under the old board... so why the :faq2: would the owners of the club (Angelli family,the majority share holders-the new guys Lapo and John), replace this successfull "old" board??? Too run (one off successfull club in the world) by them selfs (steping out, from the greandfather shadow) ...and whit that, came sacrifice in the form off Moggi and Giraudo (and latter Bettega and Tardelli, who didn't agree whit the "new" board), who ran the club successfull and never so a penny from the Angnelli family...
And i ask u again friendly for who?

 

[denco]

Now I ask you...what is your point?

Be clear and transparent. You are arguing for a reason. What is the point you are trying to make? No analogies or what ifs...just plain english.

What is your point?[/QUOTE]
MY POINT IS that you and a minority of people cannot change the fact that we cheated. MY POINT is you bringing up miniscules of the case DOES NOT CHANGE THE FACT THAT WE CHEATED.

MY POINT is that you are finding OPPOSTION WITHIN JUVENTUS AGREEING WITH YOY

MY POINT is that I have not heard a neutral person agree with what you are talking about conspiracy.

MY POINT is that Juventus is 1 of the biggest clubs in the world and it is IMPOSSIBLE to relegate them without reason.

THERE IS EU , there is SUPREME COURT, there is FIFA, there is UEFA , and you are trying to convince us that we cannot take our case to any of these?

I dont give a damn if this is Italy, Nigeria, Pakistan or Timbuktu, Juventus might be an Italian club but they have supporters all over the world, you cannot just decide to bring them down by RELEGATING them without reason and expect to get away with it.

DO YOU THINK everybody on this forum is an idiot? Do you actually think that we are that stupid to believe that we are innocent?

Instead of saying that we were not the only ones that cheated but we were punished more than most, you actually are trying to convince us that while Lazio cheated and were not relegated, we that were innocent were relegated.

I read that Lazio's manager was caught on the phone saying telling his chairman to soften up Lecce and his excuse was that he meant they should get Ledesma thats what he meant by softening Lecce

Seriously, what sort of defence is that? It is just as stupid as Moggi's nonsense about transfer leaks when asked about SIM CARDS.

WHAT YOU ARE saying to everyone here is that these people went through all that trouble to relegate us but somehow forgot to plant incriminating evidence.

I mean after all everyone is in on this conspiracy and they are loaded with money and power but they did not even bother to leave evidence that might incriminate us.

This is a Juventus that for years, have been accused of buying referees albeit without proof, this is the same Juventus that has been accused of doping their players

In other words this is Juventus that has been tainted but somehow this powerful men could not find anything against them.

STOP BEING GODAMNED NAIVE, they got plenty against us, they just refused to share with you and me and that is why our board decided to take the punishment .

All you have done is scratched the surface and stop coming here to tell us that you know every single detail of this case because you do not.

MOST OF ALL MY POINT IS if your argument from the beginning is that we are guilty but we are not the only ones and if others were not punished accordingly then we should not have been so severely punished them a lot more people would have taken you seriously but to spout what you have been spouting to people that just wanna get on with life under Secco without Moggi and his undercurrents trying to undermine this present board with this bunch of nonsense is why you are meeting so much hostility.

Why you had to wait until after we had served our time in SerieB and back in serieA is anybody's guess, could it because Moggi's trial is now ongoing?

I dont for sure what your motives are but you are too late, where were you when we faced the humiliation of serieB, where were you and your other 2800 Juve mates?

Are you just knowing about the connection of all the guys involved? Are you just finding out about the case?

Juventus not just got relegated they had 2 scudetti taken away from them but you want us to believe it was for nothing we did.

If you dont get my point and you do not see my point of view , you never will

Go ahead keep telling the marines that there was no evidence may be if you and Moggi say it so many times, you guys may believe that load of crap

 

[denco]

Dude, give the :faq2: up...He owns u...U didn't give one good peace off evidence, that Moggi is guilty, o yaeh and the judges sead soo (thay didn't find any thing on the tapes)...So why didn't you provide any evidence?? Because there aren't any...




Friendly for who? For Juve? We did win 7 scudetti, playd 4 time in CL finale, win 1 CL etc., under the old board... so why the :faq2: would the owners of the club (Angelli family,the majority share holders-the new guys Lapo and John), replace this successfull "old" board??? Too run (one off successfull club in the world) by them selfs (steping out, from the greandfather shadow) ...and whit that, came sacrifice in the form off Moggi and Giraudo (and latter Bettega and Tardelli, who didn't agree whit the "new" board), who ran the club successfull and never so a penny from the Angnelli family...
And i ask u again friendly for who?

And you are?