Calciopoli or Morattopoli.. inter fake orgasm (61 Viewers)

[Marc]

Worthless post...very little people on here will read it.

I read it and it is great. He is spot on. Denco lost this battle by a big margin. What is more ironical is that he says he is tired of having this discussion and he still comes back to argue and always loses it. Frankly, it is amusing.

 

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[Marc]

Essentially, you are guilty of winning.

Exactly. That is correct.

 

[Enron]

Exactly. That is correct.

When you break it all down, no matter what side you are on Juve were punished for winning.

 

[Vinman]

My position is that Juventus were guilty of article 1 violations and should have been fined and penalized at least 5 points. The relegation was part of another agenda and unlawful given the manner in which the sentence, trial, and evidence were structured.
If all the legal documents that state no match fixing, all the wiretaps that conclude no match fixing, and all the judges admitting no article 6 violations haven’t convinced you an others that the relegation and stripping of titles was a farce than there is little more I can do.

I also agree with these statements...this is what I've said since the beginning, and also the reason we should have pressed forward with our case to TAR for some justice.

Now, however, I hold no confidence in the fact that we would ever be vindicated (if all the above is entirely true), and whether anyone agrees with me or not, I feel that Moratti is pulling most of the strings with the league now

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

is mr.solinas still going at it? let me know when we get our 2 trophies back

 

[Zé Tahir]

Why does the most successful team in Italy, one of the most successful teams in the world, with a fan base in millions, need to cheat? Give me one good reason.

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

to the most successful team maybe

 

[gsol]

Why does the most successful team in Italy, one of the most successful teams in the world, with a fan base in millions, need to cheat? Give me one good reason.

Excellent question. The team produced the most ballon d’or winners, the most world cup winners out of any club in world history, has won more league titles and cups than any club in Italy, had 8 representatives in the World Cup Final, were fielding the eventual FIFA Player of the year, etc. etc. etc. yet no one asks themselves that question.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

plus, since moggi was part of juve, we reached 4 CL finals, winning 1.
unless some want to accuse us of cheating in europe too.

 

[Zé Tahir]

Excellent question. The team produced the most ballon d’or winners, the most world cup winners out of any club in world history, has won more league titles and cups than any club in Italy, had 8 representatives in the World Cup Final, were fielding the eventual FIFA Player of the year, etc. etc. etc. yet no one asks themselves that question.

 

[Gill_juve]

it is very sad to even be talking about this. to think we were done over because all we did was win. maybe not my full opinion on it but a very sad thing to happen to us, if true.

 

[gsol]

After reading the thoughts of the posters here I am at times baffled.

There are those who ask serious questions out of curiosity and I encourage that but other here just seem determined to deny that I have done my homework and found out what they have not.

- The only sentences regarding the trial state that no matches were fixed
- The only guilt that could be confirmed for the team was related to article 1 violations punishable by a minimal point penalty and fine after 100,000 wiretaps
- Judges later admit to being pressured into relegating the team despite no grounds to do so legally
- Judges admit that to justify the relegation the laws had to be changed
- Wiretaps obtained without warrants
- Confessions by Telecom employee regarding evidence tampering
- Swiss SIM card tables show signs of computer generation
- Trial Commissioner former Director of the rival team that was handed a title
- Same Commissioner given a director chair at Telecom Italia weeks following the relegation
- Title stripped for a season not even under investigation
- Telecom provides wiretaps under direction of Director Moratti who owns rival club (admitted on two TV stations by him personally)
- Telecom owner Tronchetti is Italian Soccer’s biggest sponsor through TIM (Telecom sister company) and is Inter’s biggest sponsor through Pirelli
- Estimated 18 month trial concluded in 22 days
- First trial illegitimately omitted (Disciplinaria) for time purposes and trial takes place in a Court of Appeals where Guido Rossi hand selected each judge
- Sports Minister Melandri publically thanked Ferrari president and FIAT Director Montezemolo for retracting the team’s appeal in civil court
- Months later Montezemolo’s Ferrari team is sponsored for millions by Telecom Italia where Rossi, Tronchetti, and Moratti sat on the board

If all this isn’t enough to have people ask themselves “was our relegation legitimate”? Than I don’t know what is. There I talk of “common sense” but disputing all this isn’t common sense. It’s a cry for attention. Many have tried to discredit me and all have failed so far. Saying “Juve’s too big a club to relegate for nothing” is utterly stupid because that is precisely what happened. There were motives. Powerful people wanted it. That’s not to say we were guilty of anything that merits the sentence.

 

[AngelaL]

Whatsa matter with you? Don't you no logic is not permitted on here?

We are just meant to believe what we are told here and that is it.

................
He says a football tribunal is a court but as you have pointed out you cannot do that in a court as it against eu law and other legalities

...............

I was commenting on the last part of Pingo's post.

Ok denco what's your problem? Do u not understand the difference between the charges?

1. An article 1 violation (points deduction + 5 point deduction- by FIGC)...That is what Juve was guilty off-unsportsmanlike conduct...Did "we" get that punishment? No...Thay give Juve a punishment that's baseing on article 6 violation (relegation), couse Juve where allegetly fixing the games...

.....................
No video evidence was allowed to be used by the defense and no witnesses were allowed to be brought forth + no wire taps were heard in court...So that we couldn't proof our innocence ...Does this look like a fair trial to you????
Come on... You must admit that is a bit shady...no? Even if it was sports tribunal...

If that football tribunal did this, then it broke EU law! I believe that this may be true as I remember, at the time, De Sanctus's lawyer complained that her client was not allowed to defend himself properly and that "evidence" was not allowed to be examined.This is a violation of EU law. It is no wonder that there are appeals against this.

I think, Denco, we will just have to agree to differ on this! You have your opinion and I have mine (as does everyone else), to which we're all entitled.

Why does the most successful team in Italy, one of the most successful teams in the world, with a fan base in millions, need to cheat? Give me one good reason.

Exactly Ze! Juventus was the best team in Italy. No other team had a chance of winning the scudetto as long as that team was allowed to remain intact and in serie A. Juventus had to be relegated to break that team up, otherwise we'd have won yet more scudetti and other teams wouldn't have had a look in.

Good post Cronios! I tried to +rep but some unexpected hawker hammered my door causing me to jump and I accidently hit the wrong button. (I usually put my name to the reps I give).

BTW, has Paul had his chance to have his opinion on the matter? I would like to read his opinion too!

 

[gsol]

K I don’t normally go off topic but how lame are those guys in the other thread. They couldn’t contest all the posted evidence so they made an entirely different thread to try me.

I have to laugh.

 

[Dasaev]

The infamous Siena 0-3 Juve game was the perfect microslice of how corrupted the game had become. I lost all faith in Italian football during those first few minutes.

One can argue that there's no tangible, definitive proof of corruption. One can also argue as to what laws Juve broke and who broke them, but I defy even the most subjective Juve fan to watch that game again and tell me that Juve and/or affiliates of didn't have more than one finger in more than one pie. As an objective onlooker, the punishment seemed to fit the crime, even if it is one vast nebulous affair.

I understand the quest for truth though. I too would like to see all those culpable punished...starting with Moratti.

 

[gsol]

Don't start that game. I can list a game where Juve got screwed as many times as you can list the opposite. We've been through that. If it was a system favoring Juve then Sampdoria wouldn't have beaten Juve by Diana scoring an offside goal in the same season. Trust me you will get nowhere with that reasoning

 

[Seven]

That doesn't change the fact several games in which Juventus opposed Siena were so blatantly obviously fixed.

 

[gsol]

ya because Juve needed to fix the referees to beat the mighty Siena...do you hear yourself?

 

[Seven]

ya because Juve needed to fix the referees to beat the mighty Siena...do you hear yourself?

We didn't need referees. We simply were the opposition. We beat ourselves.

 

[JuveAdam]

Is it funny?
Because if it is you should read all the other punch lines that retired FIGC Judges and other legal representatives still present in the FIGC had to say. You think I made that up? That is right out of La Repubblica when judges (unfortunately for us not selected to preside over the trial) were asked what Juve’s punishment should have been.

Those individuals ARE THE JUDGES!!!!!!!!!

A poll last year revealed that they are now Italy's most hated club. It was even posted in goal.com

2 points about this post;

1. Judges? The post before you said the man in question was a judge NOT assigned to the sporting trial, which means he was an 81 year old outsider, no better informed than you or I, who basically questioned the opinion of people given the job over him, which is a biased view in anyones book.

2. Goal.com as a souce? Please! Check any FOOTBALL thread for the credability of that site!

In any case relegation is not an Article 1 punishment. Not really sure why you are arguing that still.

Back on topic: I may be wrong here but I think I read somewhere in this forum the FIGC or the court changed some rules prior to calciopoli, creating the possibility to award a article 6 punishment to a (sum of) article 1 violation(s), kinda like a three-strikes-you're-out thing. After the verdict, they've changed it back. This way they created the legal grounds to demote Juve.

Isn't this a violation of the European Convention on Human Rights to which Italy (being an EEC country) has signed up to?

That's not the only right they violated.

Absolutely. It’s called the “Articolo Strutturato” literally structured article which allows a court to combine less serious offences and sentence based on a higher level infraction.

Quick summary;

Gsol: Relegation is not an article one punishment

Franky: Didnt they change the rules so it is?

Angela: Isnt it a violation of human rights?

Gsol: Yes to both!

Yet you say cant get relegated for article 1, now you say you can. You also say sporting trials aren't the same as real trials, then say its in breach of human rights? Make your mind up. The transfer system, technically, is a breach of freedom of trade laws, but this, my learned friend, is the governing body of a GAME! Not, as I said before, the Supreme Court.