Board & Management (45 Viewers)

[Clamarc]

Let me get this straight. There is an actual document called the black book of Tici and its written by the guy who used to it to get him sacked and take his position, only for it to be used by the courts against the coup instigator himself causing his own sacking and the destruction of the club


You can't script this

I think he wanted to correct Paratici mistakes

 

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[SaJuve]

Everybody watch espn for the explanations lol

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/blo...us-mess-what-they-did-wrong-and-what-it-means

 

[JUVEMOOD]

These:

1. ________________________

2. __________________________

3. ____________________________

Not those.. but those


4. Hdh gddgv hbrbfb babbdvv babbled bullshit lliiabd nanda banda Wanda Sanda
5. Randa panda tanda Sanda qanda Landa mandatory nanda Vanda
6. Qalb balb Dalb talb salb salb Nalb ialb oalb malb yalb

 

[juve123]

One thing I don't get is why, if the prosecution asked for a nine point penalty, the court ended up going with an even stiffer sentence, docking them 15 points ...

A: Yeah, that seems a bit strange to me. The explanation, apparently, was that for the sentence to be meaningful, it had to have a significant impact on the club -- enough to deny them, say, a place in the Champions League. When they were charged, nine points looked enough. Then they went on a run of good results and moved up the table, so the court was even harsher.

I guess because there is no clear precedent or jurisprudence to that regard, they felt there was nothing stopping them from going in harder. But it's certainly unusual for a judge to exceed the prosecutors' request.(Gab marcotti)

 

[DAiDEViL]

One thing I don't get is why, if the prosecution asked for a nine point penalty, the court ended up going with an even stiffer sentence, docking them 15 points ...

A: Yeah, that seems a bit strange to me. The explanation, apparently, was that for the sentence to be meaningful, it had to have a significant impact on the club -- enough to deny them, say, a place in the Champions League. When they were charged, nine points looked enough. Then they went on a run of good results and moved up the table, so the court was even harsher.

I guess because there is no clear precedent or jurisprudence to that regard, they felt there was nothing stopping them from going in harder. But it's certainly unusual for a judge to exceed the prosecutors' request.(Gab marcotti)

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Everybody watch espn for the explanations lol

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/blo...us-mess-what-they-did-wrong-and-what-it-means

Prolly not a good idea.

 

[Boksic]

One thing I don't get is why, if the prosecution asked for a nine point penalty, the court ended up going with an even stiffer sentence, docking them 15 points ...

A: Yeah, that seems a bit strange to me. The explanation, apparently, was that for the sentence to be meaningful, it had to have a significant impact on the club -- enough to deny them, say, a place in the Champions League. When they were charged, nine points looked enough. Then they went on a run of good results and moved up the table, so the court was even harsher.

I guess because there is no clear precedent or jurisprudence to that regard, they felt there was nothing stopping them from going in harder. But it's certainly unusual for a judge to exceed the prosecutors' request.(Gab marcotti)

Making it up as the go along aren't they

And there is a precedent. Chievo got a 3 point penalty for inflating player values but they'll ignore that and instead give a bigger penalty than every club got in Calciopoli other than you guessed it...Juve (and the same as Fiorentina).

 

[PedroFlu]

I can't even put in words the damage Agnelli/Paratici did to this club. Again, they set it all up. FIGC or whatever shit institution just put the ball in the back of the net.

I think now the club is really, really is approaching real decline. The brand damage around the world (where people just read the superficial news) can't even be measured. And I'm sure a lot of Italian fans will say enough and definitely give up following football (and the club). Also, I don't think Elkann will be willing to inject more money to cover for the mess there is left, like he repeatedly had to do for Agnelli.

In the end, Juventus really got fucked. Not sure they are recovering from this, specially if Italy decides they must be relegated.

The club should really be sold. But what is the point to have a rich sheikh pumping money on it? Really makes you questione any sense of following football at all.

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Btw, the anti-Juventus sentiment in Italy is so strong it actually seemed that it wasn't sustainable to go along with it. Either the sentiment slowly fades away (would never happen), or the club declines, till the sentiment is pointless.

Italy self destroying, for a change.

Anyway, after all this, it will be tough to find reason to follow the league. It really makes no sense anymore. Add to that the Allegri factor... no fucking way in hell.

 

[juve123]

Making it up as the go along aren't they

And there is a precedent. Chievo got a 3 point penalty for inflating player values but they'll ignore that and instead give a bigger penalty than every club got in Calciopoli other than you guessed it...Juve (and the same as Fiorentina).

Not exactly same but it was false accounting accusations.
https://www.foxsports.com.au/footba...l/news-story/9ed3c9bed7689fdfd7ec5117da72678c

 

[Hist]

I think he wanted to correct Paratici mistakes

A case study or movie should be made about the sharp rise and even sharper decline of this Board & Management.

Took over a club in financial, footballing and reputational ruins from Serie B. Through a series of smart free/cheap signings and the work of a young inexperienced coach,+ new stadium they quickly took the club back to the top and restablished dominance in Italy. They do a big re-brand, change coaches and go on to compete for highest honors in Europe and raise the financial profile of the club to a place where they can sign the biggest name athlete in Football history and one of the most promising stars in one window.

Unable to compete financially with European giants in the CL, the wheels suddenly come off in chase of the CL trophy ambition. They start spending outside their means, buying underperforming big name players and signing a one-season wonder coache on a big contract. Meanwhile the owner becomes obsessed with some fictional league, the management starts cooking the books all in chase of a dream. They know they're taking huge risks and they know they're cooking the books.

Covid strikes and makes the financial situation more dire. They try to cover up the mess they created. The big bets all backfire, they try to wind-back time and re-hire the coach they fired 2 years prior for not being able to stop the decline but this time they hire him on a higher salary and longer contract. The attempt to wind-back the clock fails and the football continues to deteriorate. Meanwhile, internal strifes and coups ensue; its civil war in the company.

A financial regulatory body from outside of football suspects foul play and starts wire-tapping the management. They stumble into front row seats to all the internal politics and shit slinging, and share snippets of what they found with the public. FIGC smells blood and uses the content from the management's own shit slinging at each other as evidence to destroy the club and bring it back to financial, footballing and reputational ruins.

Witch hunt or no witch hunt. Bad decisions and internal strifes are what killed this club, long before the judgment was passed. This is just the nail in the coffin.

 

[juve123]

A case study or movie should be made about the sharp rise and even sharper decline of this Board & Management.

Took over a club in financial, footballing and reputational ruins from Serie B. Through a series of smart free/cheap signings and the work of a young inexperienced coach,+ new stadium they quickly took the club back to the top and restablished dominance in Italy. They do a big re-brand, change coaches and go on to compete for highest honors in Europe and raise the financial profile of the club to a place where they can sign the biggest name athlete in Football history and one of the most promising stars in one window.

Unable to compete financially with European giants in the CL, the wheels suddenly come off in chase of the CL trophy ambition. They start spending outside their means, buying underperforming big name players and signing a one-season wonder coache on a big contract. Meanwhile the owner becomes obsessed with some fictional league, the management starts cooking the books all in chase of a dream. They know they're taking huge risks and they know they're cooking the books.

Covid strikes and makes the financial situation more dire. They try to cover up the mess they created. The big bets all backfire, they try to wind-back time and re-hire the coach they fired 2 years prior for not being able to stop the decline but this time they hire him on a higher salary and longer contract. The attempt to wind-back the clock fails and the football continues to deteriorate. Meanwhile, internal strifes and coups ensue; its civil war in the company.

A financial regulatory body from outside of football suspects foul play and starts wire-tapping the management. They stumble into front row seats to all the internal politics and shit slinging, and share snippets of what they found with the public. FIGC smells blood and uses the content from the management's own shit slinging at each other as evidence to destroy the club and bring it back to financial, footballing and reputational ruins.

Witch hunt or no witch hunt. Bad decisions and internal strifes are what killed this club, long before the judgment was passed. This is just the nail in the coffin.

Are we guilty? Which law did we break? There is no judiciary thar that can punish us for having bad intentions.

 

[PedroFlu]

A case study or movie should be made about the sharp rise and even sharper decline of this Board & Management.

Took over a club in financial, footballing and reputational ruins from Serie B. Through a series of smart free/cheap signings and the work of a young inexperienced coach,+ new stadium they quickly took the club back to the top and restablished dominance in Italy. They do a big re-brand, change coaches and go on to compete for highest honors in Europe and raise the financial profile of the club to a place where they can sign the biggest name athlete in Football history and one of the most promising stars in one window.

Unable to compete financially with European giants in the CL, the wheels suddenly come off in chase of the CL trophy ambition. They start spending outside their means, buying underperforming big name players and signing a one-season wonder coache on a big contract. Meanwhile the owner becomes obsessed with some fictional league, the management starts cooking the books all in chase of a dream. They know they're taking huge risks and they know they're cooking the books.

Covid strikes and makes the financial situation more dire. They try to cover up the mess they created. The big bets all backfire, they try to wind-back time and re-hire the coach they fired 2 years prior for not being able to stop the decline but this time they hire him on a higher salary and longer contract. The attempt to wind-back the clock fails and the football continues to deteriorate. Meanwhile, internal strifes and coups ensue; its civil war in the company.

A financial regulatory body from outside of football suspects foul play and starts wire-tapping the management. They stumble into front row seats to all the internal politics and shit slinging, and share snippets of what they found with the public. FIGC smells blood and uses the content from the management's own shit slinging at each other as evidence to destroy the club and bring it back to financial, footballing and reputational ruins.

Witch hunt or no witch hunt. Bad decisions and internal strifes are what killed this club, long before the judgment was passed. This is just the nail in the coffin.

Spot on. The most incredible thing is that this was all "unforced". They reached the top and from a very clear power position in Italy, managed to completely fuck it all up from there, all while using cheating accounting methods and who knows what else. The other clubs did it, but it was clear Paratici abused it.

FIGC just profited on the mess they created all by themselves. This wasn't artificially planted like Calciopoli.

And you know, it was clear Paratici was doing something shady, that would come back to bite them. Even if plusvalenza isn't illegal, it certainly equals to sweeping stuff under the rug and delaying the inevitable future faillure. It was clear as day. Like Barcelona is doing now, but in a smaller scale.

Agnelli should really be held as the responsible for all that. He knew it and covered Paratici as long as he could, while diverting to non urgent issues.

Agnelli rebuilt it and immediately followed to destroy the club, it's as simple as that.

 

[Vlad]

Are we guilty? Which law did we break? There is no judiciary thar that can punish us for having bad intentions.

Hes ridiculous. We were badly run and they made a mess of our finances? Yes. We broke the law? No, since that isnt regulated in the 1st place. Lets see the appeal and civil courts.

 

[Mark]

can't believe some are defending this.

 

[Espectro]

can't believe some are defending this.

Juventuz...

 

[Vlad]

can't believe some are defending this.

Yeah, shamefull. You are the mod so

 

[Mark]

I'd love to hear the wiretaps of the clubs....''if they knew what we did we'd be in Guantanamo''

 

[juve123]

Hes ridiculous. We were badly run and they made a mess of our finances? Yes. We broke the law? No, since that isnt regulated in the 1st place. Lets see the appeal and civil courts.

Yeah reading the post was like the quack judges taking ten days to explain we were punished for violating principles of morality fairness transparency and bad intentions but couldn't explain that a rule whose violation leads to fine how did we get the points deduction. Coni i am 100% percent sure will overturn the decision due procedural errors and no law violations.

 

[Mark]

Yeah reading the post was like the quack judges taking ten days to explain we were punished for violating principles of morality fairness transparency and bad intentions but couldn't explain that a rule whose violation leads to fine how did we get the points deduction. Coni i am 100% percent sure will overturn the decision due procedural errors and no law violations.

but next process they'll take 30pts from us.

 

[PedroFlu]

Hes ridiculous. We were badly run and they made a mess of our finances? Yes. We broke the law? No, since that isnt regulated in the 1st place. Lets see the appeal and civil courts.

Look at the Pjanic-Artur swap, or the Sturaro selling. It is obviously fraudulent, which means, out of intent. If this was legal, why weren't 100M operations done with amateur unknown players? Why bother doing it with known players? It doesnt work like that. You dont sell a U$1 pen for 100M, using a "loophole" of law, and benefit from the accounting of it. It's fraudulent because it makes up operations that didn't really take place, and that artificially change the value of the club.

Of course doing this shit is illegal. It serves for an illegal purpose (artificially manipulating the accounting numbers) At least for civil concerns.

Now, what I agree is that the punishment does seem shady, as it was apparently pulled out of nowhere. It actually does reminds of the calciopoli process, where the punishment was also arbitrary. This would certainly warrant civil punishment for the company, but it probably shouldn't be punishable on the sportive end. I don't know.

My point is management was blatant in using this method, clearly cooking the books with huge operations, giving a pretext for the Italian system to fuck them up.

So yes, they set themselves up for the system to find a reason to fuck them up. Given the club's history, they should be extra careful with this stuff.

It's all on Agnelli & co.

 

[s4tch]

Look at the Pjanic-Artur swap, or the Sturaro selling. It is obviously fraudulent,...

it's dumb and unsustainable, yes

fraudulent? even obviously fraudulent? show me those rules