Antonio Conte (117 Viewers)

[zizinho]

few things. 1st, Vucinic is class. 2nd, De Ceglie only started in the 1st season, and Asamoah was in his prime and not a winger and 3rd, we had an attack of Tevez, Llorente, Vucinic, Giovinco, Quagliarella in 13/14. while from todays perspective it doesent look great, back then it was the strongest in Serie A and one of the best in Europe, probably only behind Real, Barca, Bayern, PSG, City, Chelsea and Liverpool, unless im forgetting some team (United had Rooney-RVP, Arsenal had Podolski-Giroud, but Tevez was better than all of them). so a top 8 attack in Europe coupled with the top defense and top midfield we had name wise. in 2013 he did as much as we could have expected, no one was beating that Bayern team, but in 2014, with a better attack and same defense and midfield, it was a huge chokejob

 

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[Hist]

few things. 1st, Vucinic is class. 2nd, De Ceglie only started in the 1st season, and Asamoah was in his prime and not a winger and 3rd, we had an attack of Tevez, Llorente, Vucinic, Giovinco, Quagliarella in 13/14. while from todays perspective it doesent look great, back then it was the strongest in Serie A and one of the best in Europe, probably only behind Real, Barca, Bayern, PSG, City, Chelsea and Liverpool, unless im forgetting some team (United had Rooney-RVP, Arsenal had Podolski-Giroud, but Tevez was better than all of them). so a top 8 attack in Europe coupled with the top defense and top midfield we had name wise. in 2013 he did as much as we could have expected, no one was beating that Bayern team, but in 2014, with a better attack and same defense and midfield, it was a huge chokejob

Experience & luck matter a lot in the CL. We had neither in that awful CL campaign. Had Conte stayed on for an extra season or two and we got the same group draws that we actually had... would you expect that Juve to have never made it out of the group stage?

 

[zizinho]

Experience & luck matter a lot in the CL. We had neither in that awful CL campaign. Had Conte stayed on for an extra season or two and we got the same group draws that we actually had... would you expect that Juve to have never made it out of the group stage?

yes, experience matters, but those were some underwhelming results really. draw in Denmark for the 2nd straight year and not beating Galata at home, after we made the comeback from 1-0 down. you should expect us to hold onto the win in that game really.

not sure about 2015, Conte might have went for the win against Atletico on last matchday and risked a loss (or won and got 1st place in the group, who knows). then again, the Olympiacos games might play out differently than they did too... its not set in stone but he probably would have made it out of the groups, after that it would depend largely on the draw, but i dont think we make the final twice. maybe once

 

[edgardavids2608]

few things. 1st, Vucinic is class. 2nd, De Ceglie only started in the 1st season, and Asamoah was in his prime and not a winger and 3rd, we had an attack of Tevez, Llorente, Vucinic, Giovinco, Quagliarella in 13/14. while from todays perspective it doesent look great, back then it was the strongest in Serie A and one of the best in Europe, probably only behind Real, Barca, Bayern, PSG, City, Chelsea and Liverpool, unless im forgetting some team (United had Rooney-RVP, Arsenal had Podolski-Giroud, but Tevez was better than all of them). so a top 8 attack in Europe coupled with the top defense and top midfield we had name wise. in 2013 he did as much as we could have expected, no one was beating that Bayern team, but in 2014, with a better attack and same defense and midfield, it was a huge chokejob

First thing is Vucinic is not a great forward outside of serie a. I liked him but in the CL he isnt good enough and you know that. Llorente not good enough either. Asamoah is still in his prime and everyone hates him. He was more in form because he played every week and is more suited to a wing back than a LB but he isnt out of his prime. 13/14 wsa a huge let down but that happens sometimes. Honestly dont remember what the problem was but our defense gave up 9 goals and we only scored 9. Maybe it had more to do with it being Tevez first year and Llorente as well and we were clicking as a team. Not sure but offensively Conte had very little during his tenure. Not sure how you argue that he didnt

I THINK the Barca Chelsea match will be very interesting to see how his "style" can hold up to barcas dominance this season

 

[zizinho]

First thing is Vucinic is not a great forward outside of serie a. I liked him but in the CL he isnt good enough and you know that. Llorente not good enough either. Asamoah is still in his prime and everyone hates him. He was more in form because he played every week and is more suited to a wing back than a LB but he isnt out of his prime. 13/14 wsa a huge let down but that happens sometimes. Honestly dont remember what the problem was but our defense gave up 9 goals and we only scored 9. Maybe it had more to do with it being Tevez first year and Llorente as well and we were clicking as a team. Not sure but offensively Conte had very little during his tenure. Not sure how you argue that he didnt

I THINK the Barca Chelsea match will be very interesting to see how his "style" can hold up to barcas dominance this season

Vucinic came up big in he CL a couple of times for Roma actually, just ask the english clubs or Real and youll know. he isnt a superstar, but how many of those teams we beat in the CL had better forwards in 2013? Shakhtar? Celtic? you can say Chelsea because they had Hazard, but that was a transition year for them. Hazard, Oscar were very young still and have only arrived that summer + Torres was their starting CF. passing the group in 2013 was the norm, beating Celtic was the norm, not beating Bayern was OK, because they were the best team out there and no one was holding that against Conte. but in 2014, he definitely had a top8 attack (again, unless im forgetting some team, but even then,a top10 for sure), Tevez was a beast and Nando was still in good shape and form + Vucinic, Quag, Gio off the bench. he had, if not the best defense and midfield, then certainly among the very best. not passing the group was a clear failure. not beating Benfica was definitely a failure. so yeah, he did underachieve greatly in Europe that season.

and you really wanna talk about Asa? he was a top LWB, some even wanted him to start in midfield instead of Marchisio, thats how good he used to be. you really want to compare this derailed by injuries, made in China version of Asa to that one, who was at the very top of his game? the difference is huge

 

[edgardavids2608]

Vucinic came up big in he CL a couple of times for Roma actually, just ask the english clubs or Real and youll know. he isnt a superstar, but how many of those teams we beat in the CL had better forwards in 2013? Shakhtar? Celtic? you can say Chelsea because they had Hazard, but that was a transition year for them. Hazard, Oscar were very young still and have only arrived that summer + Torres was their starting CF. passing the group in 2013 was the norm, beating Celtic was the norm, not beating Bayern was OK, because they were the best team out there and no one was holding that against Conte. but in 2014, he definitely had a top8 attack (again, unless im forgetting some team, but even then,a top10 for sure), Tevez was a beast and Nando was still in good shape and form + Vucinic, Quag, Gio off the bench. he had, if not the best defense and midfield, then certainly among the very best. not passing the group was a clear failure. not beating Benfica was definitely a failure. so yeah, he did underachieve greatly in Europe that season.

and you really wanna talk about Asa? he was a top LWB, some even wanted him to start in midfield instead of Marchisio, thats how good he used to be. you really want to compare this derailed by injuries, made in China version of Asa to that one, who was at the very top of his game? the difference is huge

The one thing I will disagree on is that fact that the group stage takes place in the first few months of the season and we had 2 new strikers. Thats tough on Midfielders and forwards as well as them both switching leagues. So on paper we had a top 8 attack but in reality thats not really the case IMO.

 

[zizinho]

The one thing I will disagree on is that fact that the group stage takes place in the first few months of the season and we had 2 new strikers. Thats tough on Midfielders and forwards as well as them both switching leagues. So on paper we had a top 8 attack but in reality thats not really the case IMO.

Tevez clicked right away, Llorente was rusty and took a while, but by the Madrid games he was a full time starter and as the Madrid games showed, fully integrated into the team.

but one thing i still remember, the early Vucinic-Tevez duo looked dope, they had good understanding and played well. but Vucinic got injured so Llorente took his place, and never gave it back. i wonder how good that attack would have been if they stayed together and Vucinic didnt start declining after the injury

 

[edgardavids2608]

Tevez clicked right away, Llorente was rusty and took a while, but by the Madrid games he was a full time starter and as the Madrid games showed, fully integrated into the team.

but one thing i still remember, the early Vucinic-Tevez duo looked dope, they had good understanding and played well. but Vucinic got injured so Llorente took his place, and never gave it back. i wonder how good that attack would have been if they stayed together and Vucinic didnt start declining after the injury

So Tevez having 0 goals in the Cl that year. Whats your diagnosis oh great one? Conte system?

 

[zizinho]

So Tevez having 0 goals in the Cl that year. Whats your diagnosis oh great one? Conte system?

so you say Tevez sucked? whats your point? 0 goals in CL, must have been worse than Quag

 

[edgardavids2608]

Im saying that he wasnt fully integrated into the team yet. He is a player that demands attention and the ball and that takes a while to get in the squad against CL talent. Of course he didnt suck but I do think that he struggled when being keyed in on against good opposition early on. Its extremely crucial to know your teamates movements when being pressed so you can move and deliver quickly..

So what do you think the reason was that we struggled in the cl so bad? Bad tactics? I think we had new players at crucial positions and we struggled at first but thats just my opinion.

The fact that he was so good but in a system not familiar is why he struggled at times and also whyare team struggled to release pressure. Conte loves to get the ball to the forwards feet quickly and move off of them

 

[zizinho]

he scored 12 of his 21 goals in total during the 1st 6 months of the season, when our chokejob in the CL happened. and what good opposition are you talking about? he played vs some danish team and Galata, nothing extraordinary considering we play teams of similar level all the time in Serie A.

if you ask me now about something that happened 4 years ago, even in hindsight i wont give you an accurate answer probably. but id say it was Contes unwillingness to change things up. our MVP was great, but we had Marchisio on the bench, who was one of our best players. the 4321 vs Madrid looked really good, Marchisio and Tevez played behind Nando, we defended well and had that extra man in attack. it was really strange that Conte abandoned it right after the games ended, as he could have used it in the CL atleast, considering our depth was thin. he did the same vs Benfica, stuck to the same plan until it was too late, even with them playing a man down.

 

[edgardavids2608]

Thats fair I think that teams in serie a sit deeper against us especially back then when it was so weak. In the CL thats not really the case and our lack of team fluidity hurt us. Obviously some of that is on Conte because if its not working it needs to change but back to my original point I dont think he ever had an elite forward partnership. His last year they were elite but not til later IMO. anyway agree to disagree good chat bro

 

[pitbull]

I think its well estblished that zizinho is not exactly objective when it comes Conte, he also thought that Italy in Euro2016 had a great squad and Conte could've done better

 

[zizinho]

I think its well estblished that zizinho is not exactly objective when it comes Conte, he also thought that Italy in Euro2016 had a great squad and Conte could've done better

what are the better squads than Italy on Euro 2016? also, i didnt blame him for losing to Germany, i blamed him for going for the win vs Sweden, and essentially choosing Spain-Germany-France path to the final over (no idea who Belgium faced in 1st round)-Wales-Portugal, which was flat out stupid. get your facts straight

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also, you can say what you disagree with from my above statements instead of spouting nonsense, would be helpful

 

[Cerval]

what are the better squads than Italy on Euro 2016? also, i didnt blame him for losing to Germany, i blamed him for going for the win vs Sweden, and essentially choosing Spain-Germany-France path to the final over (no idea who Belgium faced in 1st round)-Wales-Portugal, which was flat out stupid. get your facts straight

Loser mentality.

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what are the better squads than Italy on Euro 2016? also, i didnt blame him for losing to Germany, i blamed him for going for the win vs Sweden, and essentially choosing Spain-Germany-France path to the final over (no idea who Belgium faced in 1st round)-Wales-Portugal, which was flat out stupid. get your facts straight

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also, you can say what you disagree with from my above statements instead of spouting nonsense, would be helpful

In terms of individual quality, France, Germany, Spain, Belgium, Portugal, Croatia

 

[zizinho]

Loser mentality.

...if you say so

In terms of individual quality, France, Germany, Spain, Belgium, Portugal, Croatia

France, Germany and Spain, thats it. Belgium has 2 great players in Hazard and De Bruyne, the rest is quite mediocre or above average. Croatia? no

 

[Cerval]

France, Germany and Spain, thats it. Belgium has 2 great players in Hazard and De Bruyne, the rest is quite mediocre or above average. Croatia? no

What did Italy have? Eder, Pelle, Giaccherini and Parolo.

Belgium had a decent to average defence, a good midfield with Nainggolan, Witsel and Fellaini, a great attack with Hazard, De Bruyne, Lukaku and Mertens. Miles ahead of Italy in terms of quality.

Croatia and especially Portugal (well rounded team) had a lot more talent as well. Italy in Euro 2016 was lacking a lot in quality, they made it up with hardwork.

 

[pitbull]

what are the better squads than Italy on Euro 2016? also, i didnt blame him for losing to Germany, i blamed him for going for the win vs Sweden, and essentially choosing Spain-Germany-France path to the final over (no idea who Belgium faced in 1st round)-Wales-Portugal, which was flat out stupid. get your facts straight

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also, you can say what you disagree with from my above statements instead of spouting nonsense, would be helpful

I disagree with Italy having a good team and I think Conte overachieved. I think they had a bad team with very little potential that tore apart much more talented Spain 90% because of Conte and went to penalties with a much better Germany again thanks to Conte. Look what results and how were achieved before and after him with the same generation, look at how some of his core players like Giach, Pelle and Eder(and Bonucci )are doing in their cllub careers.

 

[zizinho]

What did Italy have? Eder, Pelle, Giaccherini and Parolo.

Belgium had a decent to average defence, a good midfield with Nainggolan, Witsel and Fellaini, a great attack with Hazard, De Bruyne, Lukaku and Mertens. Miles ahead of Italy in terms of quality.

Croatia and especially Portugal (well rounded team) had a lot more talent as well. Italy in Euro 2016 was lacking a lot in quality, they made it up with hardwork.

so you ask what did they have and name the worst 4 starters, great. Buffon-Barzagli-Bonucci-Chiellini is by far the best defense in the tournament, DDR infront of them, Florenzi, Candreva too. Insigne and El Shaarawy of the bench, who barely even played lol (ElSha didnt play at all iirc after a fantastic half season in Roma). what Belgium had over them is Lukaku>Pelle, Hazard>Eder, De Bruyne>Giacch and Nainggolan>Parolo, the rest is on Italys side. Carrasco was their best player off the bench and Mertens still wasnt the Mertens of today, he was a bench option behind Insigne.

Portugal had Ronaldo and Pepe, Renato Sanches was their 3rd best player. it was a bunch of youngsters with some mediocre veterans, and those 2.

Croatia same as Belgium, just that they had Mandzukic-Perisic-Rakitic-Modric instead of Lukaku-Hazard-De Bruyne-Nainggolan, rest is on Italys side.

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I disagree with Italy having a good team and I think Conte overachieved. I think they had a bad team with very little potential that tore apart much more talented Spain 90% because of Conte and went to penalties with a much better Germany again thanks to Conte. Look what results and how were achieved before and after him with the same generation, look at how some of his core players like Giach, Pelle and Eder(and Bonucci )are doing in their cllub careers.

and i say it again, they had arguably the 4th strongest team in the tournament, it was just the midfield that was a bit behind the rest due to Marchisio and Verratti absence. you guys just like to be underdogs so much, that you underrate yourself compared to others all the time. he had Insigne and El Shaarawy benched the whole tournament, why? he opted for Sturaro, Giacch and the likes over Jorginho, Bonaventura who had great seasons. he had the chance to claim 2nd place and have a open path to the final, he chose to do it the hard way. heres a question, if i shoot myself in the foot in the middle of the 100 meters race and finish 6th, would you say i overachieved?

 

[pavluska]

Oh dear. Conte topic isn't your strength bro. @zizinho