Antonio Conte (16 Viewers)

[Cerval]

France, Germany and Spain, thats it. Belgium has 2 great players in Hazard and De Bruyne, the rest is quite mediocre or above average. Croatia? no

What did Italy have? Eder, Pelle, Giaccherini and Parolo.

Belgium had a decent to average defence, a good midfield with Nainggolan, Witsel and Fellaini, a great attack with Hazard, De Bruyne, Lukaku and Mertens. Miles ahead of Italy in terms of quality.

Croatia and especially Portugal (well rounded team) had a lot more talent as well. Italy in Euro 2016 was lacking a lot in quality, they made it up with hardwork.

 

Buy on AliExpress.com

[pitbull]

what are the better squads than Italy on Euro 2016? also, i didnt blame him for losing to Germany, i blamed him for going for the win vs Sweden, and essentially choosing Spain-Germany-France path to the final over (no idea who Belgium faced in 1st round)-Wales-Portugal, which was flat out stupid. get your facts straight

- - - Updated - - -

also, you can say what you disagree with from my above statements instead of spouting nonsense, would be helpful

I disagree with Italy having a good team and I think Conte overachieved. I think they had a bad team with very little potential that tore apart much more talented Spain 90% because of Conte and went to penalties with a much better Germany again thanks to Conte. Look what results and how were achieved before and after him with the same generation, look at how some of his core players like Giach, Pelle and Eder(and Bonucci )are doing in their cllub careers.

 

[zizinho]

What did Italy have? Eder, Pelle, Giaccherini and Parolo.

Belgium had a decent to average defence, a good midfield with Nainggolan, Witsel and Fellaini, a great attack with Hazard, De Bruyne, Lukaku and Mertens. Miles ahead of Italy in terms of quality.

Croatia and especially Portugal (well rounded team) had a lot more talent as well. Italy in Euro 2016 was lacking a lot in quality, they made it up with hardwork.

so you ask what did they have and name the worst 4 starters, great. Buffon-Barzagli-Bonucci-Chiellini is by far the best defense in the tournament, DDR infront of them, Florenzi, Candreva too. Insigne and El Shaarawy of the bench, who barely even played lol (ElSha didnt play at all iirc after a fantastic half season in Roma). what Belgium had over them is Lukaku>Pelle, Hazard>Eder, De Bruyne>Giacch and Nainggolan>Parolo, the rest is on Italys side. Carrasco was their best player off the bench and Mertens still wasnt the Mertens of today, he was a bench option behind Insigne.

Portugal had Ronaldo and Pepe, Renato Sanches was their 3rd best player. it was a bunch of youngsters with some mediocre veterans, and those 2.

Croatia same as Belgium, just that they had Mandzukic-Perisic-Rakitic-Modric instead of Lukaku-Hazard-De Bruyne-Nainggolan, rest is on Italys side.

- - - Updated - - -

I disagree with Italy having a good team and I think Conte overachieved. I think they had a bad team with very little potential that tore apart much more talented Spain 90% because of Conte and went to penalties with a much better Germany again thanks to Conte. Look what results and how were achieved before and after him with the same generation, look at how some of his core players like Giach, Pelle and Eder(and Bonucci )are doing in their cllub careers.

and i say it again, they had arguably the 4th strongest team in the tournament, it was just the midfield that was a bit behind the rest due to Marchisio and Verratti absence. you guys just like to be underdogs so much, that you underrate yourself compared to others all the time. he had Insigne and El Shaarawy benched the whole tournament, why? he opted for Sturaro, Giacch and the likes over Jorginho, Bonaventura who had great seasons. he had the chance to claim 2nd place and have a open path to the final, he chose to do it the hard way. heres a question, if i shoot myself in the foot in the middle of the 100 meters race and finish 6th, would you say i overachieved?

 

[pavluska]

Oh dear. Conte topic isn't your strength bro. @zizinho

 

[zizinho]

Oh dear. Conte topic isn't your strength bro. @zizinho

well, what am i wrong about?

 

[Nedved96]

so you ask what did they have and name the worst 4 starters, great. Buffon-Barzagli-Bonucci-Chiellini is by far the best defense in the tournament, DDR infront of them, Florenzi, Candreva too. Insigne and El Shaarawy of the bench, who barely even played lol (ElSha didnt play at all iirc after a fantastic half season in Roma). what Belgium had over them is Lukaku>Pelle, Hazard>Eder, De Bruyne>Giacch and Nainggolan>Parolo, the rest is on Italys side. Carrasco was their best player off the bench and Mertens still wasnt the Mertens of today, he was a bench option behind Insigne.

Portugal had Ronaldo and Pepe, Renato Sanches was their 3rd best player. it was a bunch of youngsters with some mediocre veterans, and those 2.

Croatia same as Belgium, just that they had Mandzukic-Perisic-Rakitic-Modric instead of Lukaku-Hazard-De Bruyne-Nainggolan, rest is on Italys side.

Lukaku, Mertens, Hazard, De Bruyne, Nainggolan walk straight into Italy's XI. Courtois is also not much worse than Buffon. Belgium also had a very good defense with Alderweireld, Vertonghen, Meunier. You could easily make a case for Dembele in midfield too.

Croatia has Mandzukic and Perisic who are better than Eder and Pelle. Modric, Kovacic, Rakitic are better than what Italy have in midfield. Italy only had a better defense and goalkeeper.

Belgium, Croatia and italy had very equal teams overall, but with different strengths and weaknesses. Conte beat Belgium with an equal team.

France, Germany and Spain had vastly superior teams to Italy. Conte beat Spain and managed to reach penalties against Germany.

Portugal just got very lucky. They finished 3rd in their group and ended up on the easy side of the knockout stages.

 

[pitbull]

I love how zizinho is talking about 15/16 Insigne, Bonaventura, Jorginho and El Sharaawy as some world beaters If you argue for hours you could convince a die hard Serie A fan that Italy in 2016 had a better team compared to Belgium, but fact is Conte made a great team from some very midtablish players and made a lot of nobodies look like capable footballers. Year and a half later Pelle is finished, Sturaro, Eder, Giach are eternal bench warmers, Bonucci is the worst captain in Milan history and de Sciglio just now is starting to look decent in club football.

Arguing that he should've lost on purpose is shameless, I wouldn't play for a coach who made me do that and I don't think that guys like Buffon or Chiellini would, only lowlives would even consider losing on purpose

 

[zizinho]

Lukaku, Mertens, Hazard, De Bruyne, Nainggolan walk straight into Italy's XI. Courtois is also not much worse than Buffon. Belgium also had a very good defense with Alderweireld, Vertonghen, Meunier. You could easily make a case for Dembele in midfield too.

Croatia has Mandzukic and Perisic who are better than Eder and Pelle. Modric, Kovacic, Rakitic are better than what Italy have in midfield. Italy only had a better defense and goalkeeper.

Belgium, Croatia and italy had very equal teams overall, but with different strengths and weaknesses. Conte beat Belgium with an equal team.

France, Germany and Spain had vastly superior teams to Italy. Conte beat Spain and managed to reach penalties against Germany.

Portugal just got very lucky. They finished 3rd in their group and ended up on the easy side of the knockout stages.

I can give you that, though I still say arguably the 4th strongest team was Italy. If we ignore name by name comparison (which I already gave Italy a slight edge in), Belgium lost to that same Italy and later to Wales, so they obviously weren't a very good team. Croatia are always chokers like the rest of former Yugoslavia, they rarely go past the group stage and when they do, they are all but one time in their history go out in the 1st knock out round to a team they should be better than nominally. So yeah, if it's a close battle name wise, I'd never pick one of Croatia and Belgium over Italy at a tournament.

Mertens like I said wasn't the player he is now, he was behind Insigne in Napoli and Insigne barely even played for Italy. Now, I'm not saying Italy had better players than those two in their starting lineup, but you can see how Mertens of 2016 wouldn't walk into Italys team if even Insigne doesn't (which again was a bad move imo)

France, Spain and Germany were better, but not vastly. In fact, they all had their fair share of problems, but I'm not gonna expand the topic even more now

We agree on Portugal except I don't think it's luck, it's called being smart, which is what Italy should have done too (finish 2nd) instead of showcasing their "winning mentality"

- - - Updated - - -

I love how zizinho is talking about 15/16 Insigne, Bonaventura, Jorginho and El Sharaawy as some world beaters If you argue for hours you could convince a die hard Serie A fan that Italy in 2016 had a better team compared to Belgium, but fact is Conte made a great team from some very midtablish players and made a lot of nobodies look like capable footballers. Year and a half later Pelle is finished, Sturaro, Eder, Giach are eternal bench warmers, Bonucci is the worst captain in Milan history and de Sciglio just now is starting to look decent in club football.

Arguing that he should've lost on purpose is shameless, I wouldn't play for a coach who made me do that and I don't think that guys like Buffon or Chiellini would, only lowlives would even consider losing on purpose

And I love how you just ignore half of what I say and focus on meaningless things. What does it matter where these guys are now? 2015/16 (especially second half of the season), they were most in great form. ElSha should have made the starting XI on form alone over Eder (who was great in the 1st half of the season for Sampdoria, but disappeared once he joined inter in January). ElSha started the season in Monaco and joined Roma in January, after which he had a fantastic run of games for them, probably the best spell of his career other than the 16 goals for Milan in 2013. Jorginho was a key starter for a contender Napoli, Bonaventura was Milan's best player.... But let's not go over that again, you obviously will ignore it all again

Conte didn't have to lose, Conte just had to hold on to the draw he already had vs Sweden at 0-0, that is 4 pts and guaranteed 3rd place basically, with good chances to win 2nd place and go on a easy path to the final. That's shameless? Ask Pau Gasol how he felt in 2012 when Spain intentionally lost to Brazil, I'm sure he's very mad at his coach. Oh no wait, he has a Olympic silver medal, while Brazil finished in QF, how is that? Shouldnt the team with the winning mentality have gone further. Well obviously no, Gasol understands it was to avoid Argentina in the QF and USA in the semis, and have a much easier path to the final. Spain has done so in many other tournaments in the last 10 years, but atleast those losers have no medals to show off for, right?

 

[Cerval]

Portugal just got very lucky. They finished 3rd in their group and ended up on the easy side of the knockout stages.

Portugal weren't simply lucky, I find them to be pretty underrated. Well rounded team, has talents as well as veterans. They made their life a bit more difficult but so does Juve. They became pretty cinical and clinical, they've changed mentality wise. Much better than France in that aspect.

If you think they they only got lucky, then you don't understand football.

 

[pitbull]

I can give you that, though I still say arguably the 4th strongest team was Italy. If we ignore name by name comparison (which I already gave Italy a slight edge in), Belgium lost to that same Italy and later to Wales, so they obviously weren't a very good team. Croatia are always chokers like the rest of former Yugoslavia, they rarely go past the group stage and when they do, they are all but one time in their history go out in the 1st knock out round to a team they should be better than nominally. So yeah, if it's a close battle name wise, I'd never pick one of Croatia and Belgium over Italy at a tournament.

Mertens like I said wasn't the player he is now, he was behind Insigne in Napoli and Insigne barely even played for Italy. Now, I'm not saying Italy had better players than those two in their starting lineup, but you can see how Mertens of 2016 wouldn't walk into Italys team if even Insigne doesn't (which again was a bad move imo)

France, Spain and Germany were better, but not vastly. In fact, they all had their fair share of problems, but I'm not gonna expand the topic even more now

We agree on Portugal except I don't think it's luck, it's called being smart, which is what Italy should have done too (finish 2nd) instead of showcasing their "winning mentality"

- - - Updated - - -



And I love how you just ignore half of what I say and focus on meaningless things. What does it matter where these guys are now? 2015/16 (especially second half of the season), they were most in great form. ElSha should have made the starting XI on form alone over Eder (who was great in the 1st half of the season for Sampdoria, but disappeared once he joined inter in January). ElSha started the season in Monaco and joined Roma in January, after which he had a fantastic run of games for them, probably the best spell of his career other than the 16 goals for Milan in 2013. Jorginho was a key starter for a contender Napoli, Bonaventura was Milan's best player.... But let's not go over that again, you obviously will ignore it all again

Conte didn't have to lose, Conte just had to hold on to the draw he already had vs Sweden at 0-0, that is 4 pts and guaranteed 3rd place basically, with good chances to win 2nd place and go on a easy path to the final. That's shameless? Ask Pau Gasol how he felt in 2012 when Spain intentionally lost to Brazil, I'm sure he's very mad at his coach. Oh no wait, he has a Olympic silver medal, while Brazil finished in QF, how is that? Shouldnt the team with the winning mentality have gone further. Well obviously no, Gasol understands it was to avoid Argentina in the QF and USA in the semis, and have a much easier path to the final. Spain has done so in many other tournaments in the last 10 years, but atleast those losers have no medals to show off for, right?

Im ignoring half of what you say because I hardlly have time to read, let alone respond to your Cronios esque posts. Lets just disagree, I think losing/drawing on purpose is pussy attitude and I'd be ashamed if Juve ever did it.

 

[zizinho]

Im ignoring half of what you say because I hardlly have time to read, let alone respond to your Cronios esque posts. Lets just disagree, I think losing/drawing on purpose is pussy attitude and I'd be ashamed if Juve ever did it.

why didnt we try to win our away game vs Barcelona last season?

 

[pitbull]

Cause we were 3:0 up?

 

[zizinho]

Cause we were 3:0 up?

imo, we showed loser mentality, we were clearly better than that barcelona team (as showcased in the 1st game) so we should have went out to beat them bad. its the same problem i had the previous year in the Coppa vs Napoli, or when we played Atletico for the draw in the last game of 2014/15 CL group stage. thats not Juve dna, Max should really be ashamed of himself

 

[Cerval]

imo, we showed loser mentality, we were clearly better than that barcelona team (as showcased in the 1st game) so we should have went out to beat them bad. its the same problem i had the previous year in the Coppa vs Napoli, or when we played Atletico for the draw in the last game of 2014/15 CL group stage. thats not Juve dna, Max should really be ashamed of himself

In that game we were looking for the win, except we also valued a lot not conceding as well. You're comparing apples with oranges. It's a knockout game and we came there with the right approach, a winning mentality, Cuadrado could have scored as well.

You're advocating pussying out and losing/drawing to get easier opponents. Completely different.

 

[zizinho]

In that game we were looking for the win, except we also valued a lot not conceding as well. You're comparing apples with oranges. It's a knockout game and we came there with the right approach, a winning mentality, Cuadrado could have scored as well.

You're advocating pussying out and losing/drawing to get easier opponents. Completely different.

what about Atletico 2014?

and you still try to be smart for some reason. "pussying out and losing" you say? lets rewatch what happened that game actually:

*video of game playing*

as you can see, Italy was bad all game, they didnt try going forward much. its the 87th minute, its 0-0 and they are in the next round with this (4 pts guarantees you next round) even if they lose the last game vs Ireland. at this point its plain stupidity to charge forward, because you already know before hand that you qualify and that you have the easier opponent(s) lined up. and you guys still arent answering what i asked, is the Spain basketball NT led by Gasol brothers, Navarro and other greats, with various gold/silver/bronze medals from Eurobaskets, Mundobaskets and Olympics, a team with loser mentality? because they did lose intentionally to et easier path to finals, and not just one time actually

 

[Cerval]

...

Anne Frank

 

[zizinho]

Anne Frank

ofcourse, easy way out as usual

 

[pitbull]

what about Atletico 2014?

and you still try to be smart for some reason. "pussying out and losing" you say? lets rewatch what happened that game actually:

*video of game playing*

as you can see, Italy was bad all game, they didnt try going forward much. its the 87th minute, its 0-0 and they are in the next round with this (4 pts guarantees you next round) even if they lose the last game vs Ireland. at this point its plain stupidity to charge forward, because you already know before hand that you qualify and that you have the easier opponent(s) lined up. and you guys still arent answering what i asked, is the Spain basketball NT led by Gasol brothers, Navarro and other greats, with various gold/silver/bronze medals from Eurobaskets, Mundobaskets and Olympics, a team with loser mentality? because they did lose intentionally to et easier path to finals, and not just one time actually

They're spineless bitches if true

 

[Elvin]

why didnt we try to win our away game vs Barcelona last season?

are you serious? Juve is the most pragmatic team in history, we look at seasons as a whole, strategically, which is exactly why we've won like 5 times more than the likes of Napoli and Roma. So when we're 3-0 up against one of the best attacking teams ever, we're not gonna expose ourselves if we don't need to, which we didn't.

 

[zizinho]

are you serious? Juve is the most pragmatic team in history, we look at seasons as a whole, strategically, which is exactly why we've won like 5 times more than the likes of Napoli and Roma. So when we're 3-0 up against one of the best attacking teams ever, we're not gonna expose ourselves if we don't need to, which we didn't.

No, I'm obviously not serious

- - - Updated - - -

They're spineless bitches if true

http://www.espn.com/olympics/summer...spain-brazil-men-basketball-loser-easier-path