Antonio Conte (131 Viewers)
- Thread starter Dostoevsky
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Strikers: Ibrahimovic, Pato, Inzaghi, Maxi Lopez.
Second Strikers: Cassano, Robinho, Sharaawy.
Offensive Midfielders: Seedorf, Boetang, Aquilani.
Defensive Midfielders: Ambrosini, Nocerino, Gattuso, Flamini, Van Bommel, Muntari.
Central Defenders: Tiago Silva, Nesta, Mexes, Bonera, Yepes.
Fullbacks: Antonini, Zambrotta, Abate, Emanuelson, Mesbah, Taiwo.
That was definitely a very good squad with excellent depth and 2 absolutely world class players supported by very good players. They lacked proper fullbacks though. This squad should have cruised to the title. Ibra alone should win you the title forget the others.
You can also see the terrible management of the squad size. They had 8 central midfielders most of which were old and on very fat salaries. They also had 7 strikers
No wonder they had a financial meltdown. Who the hell has 8 players in central midfield?
Second Strikers: Cassano, Robinho, Sharaawy.
Offensive Midfielders: Seedorf, Boetang, Aquilani.
Defensive Midfielders: Ambrosini, Nocerino, Gattuso, Flamini, Van Bommel, Muntari.
Central Defenders: Tiago Silva, Nesta, Mexes, Bonera, Yepes.
Fullbacks: Antonini, Zambrotta, Abate, Emanuelson, Mesbah, Taiwo.
That was definitely a very good squad with excellent depth and 2 absolutely world class players supported by very good players. They lacked proper fullbacks though. This squad should have cruised to the title. Ibra alone should win you the title forget the others.
You can also see the terrible management of the squad size. They had 8 central midfielders most of which were old and on very fat salaries. They also had 7 strikers
No wonder they had a financial meltdown. Who the hell has 8 players in central midfield?Roflmao
Pato was injured all the time
Maxi lopez was was Maxi useless
Inzaghi sometimes had a game
Seedorf was old and past it
Gattuso was old and past it
Mundari is black and past it
Mexes was fucking up
Bonera was mostly Bonera
Yepes is a joke
Zambrotta was pathetic compared to his juve days
Mesbah, was mostly bah
taiwo i dont even know who that is
Good squat ? Excellent depth ? very good players ?
Stop looking at names, look at times in their career.
2012 Milan had 2 absolute world class players, some good filler, and alot of oldies that were well past it most of the time. Lets compare
GK : Buffon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Abbiati
Fullbacks : Lichtsteiner and Evra are better then whatever milan had. Emanuelson wasnt a defender
Central defenders : Currently, Barzagli+Bonucci are as good as they were (but thats very arguably cause Nesta had some excellent games and T silva had the best season of his career)
Midfield : Pogba, Marchisio, Vidal are better then anything Milan had
Attack : Zlatan >>>>>>>>>>Tevez, Morata simular to what milan had
Again, that team was all about central defence+zlatan+allegri's tactical skills
Pato was injured all the time
Maxi lopez was was Maxi useless
Inzaghi sometimes had a game
Seedorf was old and past it
Gattuso was old and past it
Mundari is black and past it
Mexes was fucking up
Bonera was mostly Bonera
Yepes is a joke
Zambrotta was pathetic compared to his juve days
Mesbah, was mostly bah
taiwo i dont even know who that is
Good squat ? Excellent depth ? very good players ?
Stop looking at names, look at times in their career.
2012 Milan had 2 absolute world class players, some good filler, and alot of oldies that were well past it most of the time. Lets compare
GK : Buffon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Abbiati
Fullbacks : Lichtsteiner and Evra are better then whatever milan had. Emanuelson wasnt a defender
Central defenders : Currently, Barzagli+Bonucci are as good as they were (but thats very arguably cause Nesta had some excellent games and T silva had the best season of his career)
Midfield : Pogba, Marchisio, Vidal are better then anything Milan had
Attack : Zlatan >>>>>>>>>>Tevez, Morata simular to what milan had
Again, that team was all about central defence+zlatan+allegri's tactical skills
Wait are you comparing their 2011 squad with our current squad or with our 2011 squad? I'd definitely take our current squad over their 2011. If I could pick from their old squad today I'd only take Silva, Ibra, Cassano, Nesta and maybe Van Bommel.
you are also very harsh on seedorf and Gattuso. Sure they werent their younger selves (they used to be some of the best players in their positions 10 years ago) but even at that old age they were more than decent players.
you are also very harsh on seedorf and Gattuso. Sure they werent their younger selves (they used to be some of the best players in their positions 10 years ago) but even at that old age they were more than decent players.
Well said man, Milan were average. If it weren't for Ibra, T.Silva and EuroMax they would have ended up in the same position they're in now. In fact AC Milan were pretty much carrying dead weight post 2007, Ancelotti wasn't doing well with them anymore either. All the signings of Ibra and T.Silva did was delay the inevitable. I think getting rid of Lenardo didn't help either, he was a fantastic scout and should have stayed as one. B&G destroyed Milan completely, they should take the full blame for it. Had they bought good players after 2011 when they had just won Serie A with Allegri, perhaps it would have been them dominating Serie A.
everyone here talking as if they were there, to know all the going ons in the backroom.Based on what Nedved said (who is actually INVOLVED in Juve's management), conte already expressed his interest to leave earlier, came back and finalised that decision after being asked to consider by the board.
And I respect Conte for at least being honest. what was the point in having a Coach who has lost motivation? what else was there for him to achieve? we were undefeated,3 scudetti, 102 points... I think he knew he could not take the team further than that.
And I am very glad we have appointed the right person as replacement who did take us further. But it's never a case of Conte vs Allegri. truth is one would not be where they are without the other - Allegri would not reach this far if Conte did not set the foundation and base for this team. If allegri took over in 2011/12, I am not so sure the team would've done as well then - Conte at the time was the right mind to inject the mentality of a Juventino. He is, after all, one, and was our Captain.
Everything worked out well for us, and timely in my opinion. No idea what Tuz is complaining about.
you are making it seem that they were padoins running around the field. They were much better than that I assure you. Even good players like Aquilani were not as good as seedorf. Boetang was somehow a very effective player behind the strikers. Ambrosini was still very solid defensively. Van Bommel was still very very good. Cassano was still a very good player. The squad size was also huge. Flamini was a very good player for Arsenal Milan just never got the same out of him.
Our current squad is obviously better but their squad should have definitely won the scudetto.
Our current squad is obviously better but their squad should have definitely won the scudetto.
Strikers: Ibrahimovic, Pato, Inzaghi, Maxi Lopez.
Second Strikers: Cassano, Robinho, Sharaawy.
Offensive Midfielders: Seedorf, Boetang, Aquilani.
Defensive Midfielders: Ambrosini, Nocerino, Gattuso, Flamini, Van Bommel, Muntari.
Central Defenders: Tiago Silva, Nesta, Mexes, Bonera, Yepes.
Fullbacks: Antonini, Zambrotta, Abate, Emanuelson, Mesbah, Taiwo.
That was definitely a very good squad with excellent depth and 2 absolutely world class players supported by very good players. They lacked proper fullbacks though. This squad should have cruised to the title. Ibra alone should win you the title forget the others.
You can also see the terrible management of the squad size. They had 8 central midfielders most of which were old and on very fat salaries. They also had 7 strikers No wonder they had a financial meltdown. Who the hell has 8 players in central midfield?
Second Strikers: Cassano, Robinho, Sharaawy.
Offensive Midfielders: Seedorf, Boetang, Aquilani.
Defensive Midfielders: Ambrosini, Nocerino, Gattuso, Flamini, Van Bommel, Muntari.
Central Defenders: Tiago Silva, Nesta, Mexes, Bonera, Yepes.
Fullbacks: Antonini, Zambrotta, Abate, Emanuelson, Mesbah, Taiwo.
That was definitely a very good squad with excellent depth and 2 absolutely world class players supported by very good players. They lacked proper fullbacks though. This squad should have cruised to the title. Ibra alone should win you the title forget the others.
You can also see the terrible management of the squad size. They had 8 central midfielders most of which were old and on very fat salaries. They also had 7 strikers
No wonder they had a financial meltdown. Who the hell has 8 players in central midfield?
it's funny cause, in hindsight, it makes no sense that you post this team.
everyone here talking as if they were there, to know all the going ons in the backroom.Based on what Nedved said (who is actually INVOLVED in Juve's management), conte already expressed his interest to leave earlier, came back and finalised that decision after being asked to consider by the board.
And I respect Conte for at least being honest. what was the point in having a Coach who has lost motivation? what else was there for him to achieve? we were undefeated,3 scudetti, 102 points... I think he knew he could not take the team further than that.
And I am very glad we have appointed the right person as replacement who did take us further. But it's never a case of Conte vs Allegri. truth is one would not be where they are without the other - Allegri would not reach this far if Conte did not set the foundation and base for this team. If allegri took over in 2011/12, I am not so sure the team would've done as well then - Conte at the time was the right mind to inject the mentality of a Juventino. He is, after all, one, and was our Captain.
Everything worked out well for us, and timely in my opinion. No idea what Tuz is complaining about.
Well said. The knee-jerk reaction here is just out of butthurt. Just like those stupid death threats etc. People just need to let go.
There is no comparison between Conte and Allegri. Allegri wasn't even the best option for our management. He was just the best of the bunch of losers available at the time. Had there been a more acclaimed, high profile coach available back then, I bet we wouldn't even hear Allegri's name. Let alone having him as our coach.
But in the end, as you said, everything worked out just fine, so people need to MOVE ON.
I was upset when he eventually left. I was angry before he left. His constant washing of dirty laundry in public got annoying. His press conferences in his final year and especially towards the end of the season was pathetic and downright disrespectful. Some people like that kind of attitude. Their justification being that his attitude showed that he cared and the management didn't. I was disgusted by it. I thought the management were very patient with him and handled it as well as they could. It did hurt when he eventually left. Looked a big void to fill. Thankfully it all worked out.
I think you're criminally underestimating the quality of our team back then. Consider that 8 players from 2011/12 squad (Buffon, Licht, Chiellini, Bonucci, Barzagli, Pirlo, Marchisio, Vidal) are still starting for today's CL semifinalist, players like Pirlo that were still in their prime and some others like Chiellini or Licht that as well were playing at higher level. The only significant recent change has been in our attack, but the core of the team is basically the same. People didn't believe in our team, just like they don't believe in it right now, therefore reaching CL semifinal is seen as exception, while in reality we're strong, resilient and difficult side to break. Conte was the final piece of the puzzle (respect for him to giving us the right mentality), but it wasn't any miracle that we triumphed.
We didn't have a better squad than Milan in 2011. That's not even debatable.
I would have happily signed to a place in CL before the season started and I would have consider it a great achievement as most of the other fans here would. However, winning that Scudetto was the better pleasant surprise I had as a Juve fan, even better than beating fat Ronaldo to 2002 scudetto.
I would have happily signed to a place in CL before the season started and I would have consider it a great achievement as most of the other fans here would. However, winning that Scudetto was the better pleasant surprise I had as a Juve fan, even better than beating fat Ronaldo to 2002 scudetto.
We went through this already before. Pirlo was even more finished than Seedorf was at Milan and Allegri didnt manage to get anything out of him. Conte rejuvenated him and built the team around him and Prandelli followed suit with Italy.
Marchisio was an absolute nobody without a single decent half season under his belt. If anything Giovinco was seen as the really promising one and marchisio was only seen as a squad filler. The current season is his second great season in all of his career if you haven't noticed and the heights he reached since Conte were much better than anything he did under any other coach before then.
Barzagli was even more of a nobody that he couldnt get a starting spot with Wolfsburg in his last two seasons. Prior to 2008 he was at best an Azzuri bench player and between 2008 and 2012 he wasn't even picked for the national team at all in any capacity. Its only after consistent performances under Conte did he become a first team player for the Azzuri.
I dont think I should say anything about Bonucci. Unless you were blind you should know that he was a terrible defender and it took Conte a lot of time to get anything out of him.
Your judgment of the squad is completely based on retrospect rather than on the context back then. Its as wrong as saying that Buffon and Casillas are not great goal keepers because of their current form while ignoring their past. Milan's players were established, experienced and were already champions before under the same coach. They had no players that needed to rediscover themselves, they had no youngsters that never had a top level season yet, they didnt get a new coach, they didnt add multiple new players to their squad the way we did, they had an on fire Ibra that was one of the best 5 players in the world. They had the best defender in the world.
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And when Agnelli says we won the scudetto 3 years ahead of plan?
Marchisio was an absolute nobody without a single decent half season under his belt. If anything Giovinco was seen as the really promising one and marchisio was only seen as a squad filler. The current season is his second great season in all of his career if you haven't noticed and the heights he reached since Conte were much better than anything he did under any other coach before then.
Barzagli was even more of a nobody that he couldnt get a starting spot with Wolfsburg in his last two seasons. Prior to 2008 he was at best an Azzuri bench player and between 2008 and 2012 he wasn't even picked for the national team at all in any capacity. Its only after consistent performances under Conte did he become a first team player for the Azzuri.
I dont think I should say anything about Bonucci. Unless you were blind you should know that he was a terrible defender and it took Conte a lot of time to get anything out of him.
Your judgment of the squad is completely based on retrospect rather than on the context back then. Its as wrong as saying that Buffon and Casillas are not great goal keepers because of their current form while ignoring their past. Milan's players were established, experienced and were already champions before under the same coach. They had no players that needed to rediscover themselves, they had no youngsters that never had a top level season yet, they didnt get a new coach, they didnt add multiple new players to their squad the way we did, they had an on fire Ibra that was one of the best 5 players in the world. They had the best defender in the world.
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And when Agnelli says we won the scudetto 3 years ahead of plan?
Pirlo was plagued with injuries in his last season with Milan, was 3-4 months on the sidelines iirc. We made shrewed business there, as he got back some of his form, but that was far cry from Pirlo between 2002-2006. Conte did help him, but Pirlo more than anything needed change of scenery.
Marchisio was starting CM for Italian NT or thereabout, so wasn't exactly a nobody as you've put it. I rate currrent season more than 2011/12, as he's been consistent throughout whole year.
Wat?! Barzagli was starting CB for Wolfsburg, missed very few games during his time there. In any case most CBs peak at 30es.
Actually this has been Bonucci's best season, so credit goes to Allegri. In the previous few years one blunder per game was his standard contribution.
Milan had old, decaying team, although some classy individuals like Ibra and TS, mediocre bench (unless you rated players like Aquilani, Antonini Mesbah or Flamini), no young players that were expected to break through in subsequent seasons, had burden of playing in the CL, while the same core of the current team that have brought us to the semis, have also been pivotal in our scudetto triumph and in addition we had no European obligation to set us off from our path, which conicided with our lack of depth at that time. It is of no conicidence that these players still have an impact. Different coach, but players are still obtaining results. If Conte was the one responsible for them overperforming, then they'd get back to being mediocre this season, when according to many (especially you), inferior manager with lack of motivational skills took the reigns. You shamelessly claimed that current Inter's team is better than our in 2011/12, and this is where the dispute arises.
The point isn't to underestimate what Conte did, as I respect(ed) his work , but I think his biggest contribution was more related to setting the right mentality to the team rather than possessing tactical astuteness, and of course to negate blatant exaggeration where he takes all the credit. This is Juventus and we'll have few rough seasons every now and then due to circumstances mostly beyond our control, but eventually we'd hire some other coach and got back on the right track. The company of this magnitude is never solely dependant on individual.
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He (Agnelli) also gets the credit for that.
Marchisio was starting CM for Italian NT or thereabout, so wasn't exactly a nobody as you've put it. I rate currrent season more than 2011/12, as he's been consistent throughout whole year.
Wat?! Barzagli was starting CB for Wolfsburg, missed very few games during his time there. In any case most CBs peak at 30es.
Actually this has been Bonucci's best season, so credit goes to Allegri. In the previous few years one blunder per game was his standard contribution.
Milan had old, decaying team, although some classy individuals like Ibra and TS, mediocre bench (unless you rated players like Aquilani, Antonini Mesbah or Flamini), no young players that were expected to break through in subsequent seasons, had burden of playing in the CL, while the same core of the current team that have brought us to the semis, have also been pivotal in our scudetto triumph and in addition we had no European obligation to set us off from our path, which conicided with our lack of depth at that time. It is of no conicidence that these players still have an impact. Different coach, but players are still obtaining results. If Conte was the one responsible for them overperforming, then they'd get back to being mediocre this season, when according to many (especially you), inferior manager with lack of motivational skills took the reigns. You shamelessly claimed that current Inter's team is better than our in 2011/12, and this is where the dispute arises.
The point isn't to underestimate what Conte did, as I respect(ed) his work , but I think his biggest contribution was more related to setting the right mentality to the team rather than possessing tactical astuteness, and of course to negate blatant exaggeration where he takes all the credit. This is Juventus and we'll have few rough seasons every now and then due to circumstances mostly beyond our control, but eventually we'd hire some other coach and got back on the right track. The company of this magnitude is never solely dependant on individual.
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He (Agnelli) also gets the credit for that.