Definitely, it's the aspect of our game totally neglected, but we lack suitable player as well, someone besides Tevez who'll be able to take on his man on a regular basis, pacey player ala Sanchez.
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Antonio Conte (73 Viewers)
- Thread starter Dostoevsky
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Yeah I can't blame the team or Conte tbh it's just not something our players are capable of.
I mean, Benficas wide men weren't what you would call top class. They were decent, and done their job. The end result is they can hold their own with some of the best clubs out there purely by counter attacking with pace and with numbers. Somebody like Sanchez would really transform us imo. I have absolutely no problem whatsoever if Conte decides to play catenaccio from here on in, providing we have sufficient threat going forward instead of being pinned back and hoofing it hopelessly to a stranded forward like lesser clubs often do.
I mean, Benficas wide men weren't what you would call top class. They were decent, and done their job. The end result is they can hold their own with some of the best clubs out there purely by counter attacking with pace and with numbers. Somebody like Sanchez would really transform us imo. I have absolutely no problem whatsoever if Conte decides to play catenaccio from here on in, providing we have sufficient threat going forward instead of being pinned back and hoofing it hopelessly to a stranded forward like lesser clubs often do.
Tevez isn't particularly fast, but he's quick enough providing he's not the only one involved in the counter
I'd honestly quite like Nani here on the cheap to give Conte options from the bench if nothing more
Say Llorente is being marked out of the game, and it's a team like Benfica who have a pair of big, moderately physical and slow CBs. We push Tevez to CF, throw Nani on the left and Sanchez is already on, then we have a really tricky front 3 that most CBs hate. Nothing worse as a defender than having some speed merchant running right at you with the ball.
I'd honestly quite like Nani here on the cheap to give Conte options from the bench if nothing more
Say Llorente is being marked out of the game, and it's a team like Benfica who have a pair of big, moderately physical and slow CBs. We push Tevez to CF, throw Nani on the left and Sanchez is already on, then we have a really tricky front 3 that most CBs hate. Nothing worse as a defender than having some speed merchant running right at you with the ball.
It seems to me that we are more successful when we play less attacking football simply because we have lots of error prone players in the squad.
This game reminds me of two games from the CL this season: 1) real and 2) Galata away. In all 3 games we "outplayed" our opponents, created many chances, and conceded from defensive brain farts. Our defenders seem much more comfortable playing a slow tempo and de-constructing opposition plays than upping the tempo, grabbing the game by the neck and just pounding the opposition. I wouldn't say our conservative approach is whats hurting us... the way I see it is that whenever we become liberal against proper opposition we seem to consistently commit brain farts at the back and give away all the good work that was done before.
I'd play conservatively from now on. Slow down the tempo, maintain possession, create very few chances and finish one of them and allow the opposition nothing like we do in Serie A. Its ugly and it pisses fans off but it works and the defense copes well with the pressure.
Fast tempo makes our defense look lost during counters and we create more chances than our strikers could score anyway. Sadly, we must use this approach and hope for no brain farts for the next game because we need to score.
This game reminds me of two games from the CL this season: 1) real and 2) Galata away. In all 3 games we "outplayed" our opponents, created many chances, and conceded from defensive brain farts. Our defenders seem much more comfortable playing a slow tempo and de-constructing opposition plays than upping the tempo, grabbing the game by the neck and just pounding the opposition. I wouldn't say our conservative approach is whats hurting us... the way I see it is that whenever we become liberal against proper opposition we seem to consistently commit brain farts at the back and give away all the good work that was done before.
I'd play conservatively from now on. Slow down the tempo, maintain possession, create very few chances and finish one of them and allow the opposition nothing like we do in Serie A. Its ugly and it pisses fans off but it works and the defense copes well with the pressure.
Fast tempo makes our defense look lost during counters and we create more chances than our strikers could score anyway. Sadly, we must use this approach and hope for no brain farts for the next game because we need to score.
We can't do that with much success in Europe simply because we have no counterattacking threat whatsoever
Unlike most serie A games, these opponents do not let us settle on the ball, they force the tempo on us and can throw men forward at will because there's no danger of us breaking at lightning speed and punishing them
I'd happily watch us play catenaccio even against very inferior opposition, so long as we added the player(s) required to play a good counter attacking game
Unlike most serie A games, these opponents do not let us settle on the ball, they force the tempo on us and can throw men forward at will because there's no danger of us breaking at lightning speed and punishing them
I'd happily watch us play catenaccio even against very inferior opposition, so long as we added the player(s) required to play a good counter attacking game
I see conte employing one of two different approaches to games both using the same formation.
1) The conservative approach aka pussy football:
This is a low tempo approach. The team doesnt become very adventurous going forward but rather relies on slow build-up play from the back and surrounds the opposition team in their own box and try to squeeze goals through (Pirlo is the maestro of this surround system). The team tries to slowly break down the opposition defenses and does so more frequently the weaker the opposition's defenses are. The wing backs stretch the opposition while the CMs and the strikers push their way through. The occasional cross in the crowded box is tried when Llorente is playing.
When we lose the ball we lose it either in the midfield or in Attack. When we lose it in the middle we easily recover it because our slow build up guarantees that most of our players (all of which are excellent in recovering the ball apart from pirlo who fouls when there is no other cover) are still in the middle close to where the ball was lost and they go to their defensive positions quickly. When we lose the ball in Attack our wing backs track back and 2 CBs and a CM at the very least are ready to recover the ball. In short, the low tempo gives the defense time to organize themselves and we are rock solid at the back when we play like this. The frequency of brain farts is very diminished and defenders have the luxury of time at their hands to handle the occasional loss of concentration.
This approach is very successful yet boring to watch and makes the team look predictable even if its consistently effective. Employing this approach however, has the risk of falling into way too many draws (like previous seasons in Serie A and this season in CL) or grinding out 1-0 wins (like this season). After all the team isnt very adventurous and goal scoring chances are thus rare so the players have to be clinical. You will never thrash an opponent using this approach and you'll always look like you struggled to win. Without a clinical striker force and against a really organized defense you will struggle.
With this approach the worst case scenario is the draw the best case scenario is a tight win 1-0 or 2-0 depending on form and opposition.
2) The second approach is the high tempo one. The team is more adventurous but more vulnerable at the back. Brain farts become a common occurrence especially with Bonnuci on the team (look at how bad even kompany is doing when city upped the tempo under pellegrini or how often hummels and Luiz make stupid mistakes) You'll create many goal scoring opportunities but you'll also concede. You have to outscore opponents which is difficult to do with a wasteful strike force and an error prone defender (bonbon).
The best case scenario is a thrashing and the worst case scenario is also a thrashing from counter attacks or brain farts (Madrid, Gala, Benfica).
In my opinion, the first approach is more suitable for league matches because opposition defenses are weaker, your strikers are more used to the opposition and draws wont do much damage. In european cup competitions though defenses are stronger, a draw is usually a bad result and your strikers arent used to the opposition as much. In every instant where we used this high tempo approach we had a great game yet lost or drew because of brain farts and wastefulness in front of goal. I think that we will be much more successful at using it if we improve our strike force, have better bench options for our wingbacks (Pace is a must) and use a less error probe defender in place of bonnuci during these matches.
1) The conservative approach aka pussy football:
This is a low tempo approach. The team doesnt become very adventurous going forward but rather relies on slow build-up play from the back and surrounds the opposition team in their own box and try to squeeze goals through (Pirlo is the maestro of this surround system). The team tries to slowly break down the opposition defenses and does so more frequently the weaker the opposition's defenses are. The wing backs stretch the opposition while the CMs and the strikers push their way through. The occasional cross in the crowded box is tried when Llorente is playing.
When we lose the ball we lose it either in the midfield or in Attack. When we lose it in the middle we easily recover it because our slow build up guarantees that most of our players (all of which are excellent in recovering the ball apart from pirlo who fouls when there is no other cover) are still in the middle close to where the ball was lost and they go to their defensive positions quickly. When we lose the ball in Attack our wing backs track back and 2 CBs and a CM at the very least are ready to recover the ball. In short, the low tempo gives the defense time to organize themselves and we are rock solid at the back when we play like this. The frequency of brain farts is very diminished and defenders have the luxury of time at their hands to handle the occasional loss of concentration.
This approach is very successful yet boring to watch and makes the team look predictable even if its consistently effective. Employing this approach however, has the risk of falling into way too many draws (like previous seasons in Serie A and this season in CL) or grinding out 1-0 wins (like this season). After all the team isnt very adventurous and goal scoring chances are thus rare so the players have to be clinical. You will never thrash an opponent using this approach and you'll always look like you struggled to win. Without a clinical striker force and against a really organized defense you will struggle.
With this approach the worst case scenario is the draw the best case scenario is a tight win 1-0 or 2-0 depending on form and opposition.
2) The second approach is the high tempo one. The team is more adventurous but more vulnerable at the back. Brain farts become a common occurrence especially with Bonnuci on the team (look at how bad even kompany is doing when city upped the tempo under pellegrini or how often hummels and Luiz make stupid mistakes) You'll create many goal scoring opportunities but you'll also concede. You have to outscore opponents which is difficult to do with a wasteful strike force and an error prone defender (bonbon).
The best case scenario is a thrashing and the worst case scenario is also a thrashing from counter attacks or brain farts (Madrid, Gala, Benfica).
In my opinion, the first approach is more suitable for league matches because opposition defenses are weaker, your strikers are more used to the opposition and draws wont do much damage. In european cup competitions though defenses are stronger, a draw is usually a bad result and your strikers arent used to the opposition as much. In every instant where we used this high tempo approach we had a great game yet lost or drew because of brain farts and wastefulness in front of goal. I think that we will be much more successful at using it if we improve our strike force, have better bench options for our wingbacks (Pace is a must) and use a less error probe defender in place of bonnuci during these matches.
A mix of the two would be best going forward imo. Keeping numbers behind the ball, giving the opposition no room to run in behind but with a less predictable and more direct attack. Pirlo may suffer a bit in this system but no matter what we decide to do there's going to be a trade-off.
I'd love to see us play old fashioned counter attacking football with a solid defence and combative midfield. Which is entirely possible.
I'd love to see us play old fashioned counter attacking football with a solid defence and combative midfield. Which is entirely possible.
I'm usually pretty pissed off after a loss, but even at the end of last game I wasn't so angry, and actually felt we played a pretty decent away game in Europe and were a tad unlucky to lose the game. I think if we play with the same determination and aggression we showed in the second half, we will win the game and qualify for the final.
I'm usually pretty pissed off after a loss, but even at the end of last game I wasn't so angry, and actually felt we played a pretty decent away game in Europe and were a tad unlucky to lose the game. I think if we play with the same determination and aggression we showed in the second half, we will win the game and qualify for the final.
Has it ever crossed your mind that maybe just maybe its a possibility that because we played well they looked poor , rather than because they were poor we played well. ?Atleast till next week you can see the glass as half full instead of half empty , its not as if they are bayern and we are livorno .
I know they did have 2-3 players missing , so did we in vidal barza and even tevez was not 100% .
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I'm usually pretty pissed off after a loss, but even at the end of last game I wasn't so angry, and actually felt we played a pretty decent away game in Europe and were a tad unlucky to lose the game. I think if we play with the same determination and aggression we showed in the second half, we will win the game and qualify for the final.
The word " unlucky " is not acceptable here , its an excuse , the fact is if we lose we are simply not good enough .
I know they did have 2-3 players missing , so did we in vidal barza and even tevez was not 100% .
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I'm usually pretty pissed off after a loss, but even at the end of last game I wasn't so angry, and actually felt we played a pretty decent away game in Europe and were a tad unlucky to lose the game. I think if we play with the same determination and aggression we showed in the second half, we will win the game and qualify for the final.
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I tought Bonucci wasent that bad. Its just that first goal, that made him look like some primavera kid 