Antonio Conte (92 Viewers)

[Zacheryah]

Madrid, could have pulled it off. Madrid could have won 3 trebles in a row.

BUT they failed where bayern succeedded.

both use the 4-2-3-1 godmode formation
both deploy full offensive wingers, and have absolute world class there
both have a playmaker who's not actually dolan (i mean SS) but a genuine midfield playmaker general, with amazing vision and touches and defensive workrate.
both have excellent fullbacks

But Madrid's stubborn flair and fancy, was their downfall

You see, they insisted on xabi alonso and that piece of dogshit khedira. A weak ass central axis. Madrid didnt bother balancing. their fullbacks were great, but also mostly offensive. nothing balanced it out. they didnt give a shit. thye also, didnt won shit

Bayern, saw the light. They got javi martinez, a spanish player for fucks sake, and put him next to schweinsteiger. And the puzzle was complete

because of that immensely strong central axis, and the excellent fullbacks, GOOD LUCK trying to break that down. madrid should be happy they didnt meet bayern in the knockouts. they'd get humiliated like barcelona

2012/2013 bayern is the most impressive formation i've seen since mid 90ties juventus

 

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[Pirlo's Beard]

Agreed with TQ

At this point i'd be happy with any reasonable formational change

If for nothing more than to make us less predictable.

4-3-3 could work wonders, Chiellini is imo better in such a system and we no longer need Bonucci.

 

[Zacheryah]

That's because most of the teams who use the 4-3-3 nowadays have mediocre defenses and do not know how to defend as a unit (Ajax, Zeman's teams, etc.)

With Lichsteiner on the right, a solid LB, and Vidal-Pogba-Marchisio/Asamoah with a right winger who tracks back a lot, I'm sure the 4-3-3 would work very well.

agreed, it would. But a perfect 4231 or actually the 352 counters it

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Agreed with TQ

At this point i'd be happy with any reasonable formational change

If for nothing more than to make us less predictable.

4-3-3 could work wonders, Chiellini is imo better in such a system and we no longer need Bonucci.

433. 2 wingers. no tevez, pogba and vidal to inferior roles.
You need massive wingers to pull that off. Lavezzi and lucas, Robben and Ribery, ...
We cannot afford that. Not even close

THE mistake you keep making, is that your 433 requires the wingers to make the diffrence. it does not work with average ones.

 

[Pirlo's Beard]

Well my pick of formations is a 4-2-3-1 aswell but it's not happening with 4 top midfielders

There are plenty of wingers out there, sure we're not on a great budget but if we don't invest then we're only going to get steadily worse. So assuming we're not as poor as a Greek club, we need to sell off dead wood, invest in a bit and start picking up players suitable for a new formation.

 

[Zacheryah]

Why would we need a new formation if the current one works ?

We need to get the best out of our players, and are financially crap.

We need to see what the market gifts us, and that will determine the formation

 

[Pirlo's Beard]

Well I disagree 100% about this formation 'working' in Europe anyway


Nevermind the individual errors, what about the fact we failed to score more than 1 goal from open play in each of our 6 group games. It failed and the sooner 3-5-2 goes the better.

Unless we buy suitable wing backs and a better striker. Which won't happen.

 

[Zacheryah]

With llorente, we deployed 352 twice in europe, one of them beeing in that potatoefield

Hardly a benchmark

Better striker ? he's good enough. Dont overreact. See how things go when form is better and llorente blends in

 

[Pirlo's Beard]

I'm not sure he is tbh, hopefully he'll prove me wrong but atm we're using a front 2 where neither are World Class.

one goes to peices in Europe and the other isn't a good finisher. Not to mention, none of our attackers are quick enough to run in behind and they're pretty bad at taking their man on

It all adds up to a serious lack of threat.

 

[Zacheryah]

You base this on a few months of juve, and in llorente's case, on 4-5 weeks.

Yet you ignore their scoring past

 

[Pirlo's Beard]

I'm basing Tevez on his last several years of European football, in which he has scored a whopping 0 goals

Llorente would probably be a lot better as a long striker with wide men actually finding him, not our shitty wing-backs attempting to cross and failing

And no, neither of them are particularly good at taking their man on, neither are very quick.

We have a slow, predictable team which lacks threat too often.

 

[Trequartista]

With llorente, we deployed 352 twice in europe, one of them beeing in that potatoefield

Hardly a benchmark

Better striker ? he's good enough. Dont overreact. See how things go when form is better and llorente blends in

Actually, that was a frozen kebab field.

 

[Zacheryah]

yet each time when the cm's support the wingback and trow in an early cross, we are dangerous

We are a slow team, that domminates the opponent and suffocates their creativity

Like 1996 juve. And that was one of the best teams in history

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Actually, that was a frozen kebab field.

Correction : under the frozen kebab, there was also potatoe, and dolan

 

[Trequartista]

yet each time when the cm's support the wingback and trow in an early cross, we are dangerous

We are a slow team, that domminates the opponent and suffocates their creativity

Like 1996 juve. And that was one of the best teams in history

Which formation did we use in 1996 again?

Yep, the inept and crap 4-3-3.

 

[Pirlo's Beard]

Only we don't suffocate anybody, soon as we see a half-big name or any European team we automatically sit back and play like underdogs

Unless it's Chelsea of course, the most defensive 'big' team in history.

 

[LiquidPLP]

Nani brings less then pogba or vidal, so why limit better players for him ?

433 is crap

4231, the best winger formation, only works when your wingers make a diffrence

That's simply not true. A player like Nani could bring to this team what Pogba and Vidal can't. He's good at crossing which would benefit Llorente a lot. He can also beat his man and is fast so he's an actual threat when counter attacking; None of our current players offers that. It's pointless to compare possible impact of those players because they play different positions.

with the right players and tactics, a good 4-3-3 is actually a 4231

A true 433 is unbalanced. Barcelona pulls it off cause of the way they defend, wich disguises the defensive issue. A most excellent approach.

Untill you meet a perfecvt 4231 team like bayern last year, and get horribly shafted

I'm all for 4231 as well. I like both 433 and 4231 and I'll be happy if Conte decides to adapt one of those.

Let's not forget that we were very good with the 4-3-3 during Conte's first season, with Pepe on the right side. With a better winger than Pepe, albeit one that has similar defensive qualities, I think we'd be great.

Exactly what I meant. We played Vucinic - Matri - Pepe imagine Tevez - Llorente - Nani where all 3 players are definitely upgrade over the previous ones. In 433 we used to play beautiful football very intense and our midfielders scored a lot of goals too. We shouldn't be afraid of playing this formation, we have a lot of strong players who can handle it physically. BVB does that and keep in mind they play a lot + they have a really short bench.

 

[Zacheryah]

Which formation did we use in 1996 again?

Yep, the inept and crap 4-3-3.

You are wong, but you dont know why. allow me to explain.

I say, an "all out 433" is unbalanced. As in 3 midfielders of wich at least 1 is creative of makes forward runs, and 2 wingers that are full offensive wingers.

I said too, that the original conte 433, was a workhorse winger 433. That works, but requires specific players.
We have a midfield, not of pure holding monsters, but of box to box players. players that like to be aggressive and press, and have offensive intentions.

Juventus in 1996 played 433. Not not the "full out" one.
The 3 midfielders, were defensive monsters. very tactically limited in going forward.
Vialli, is a striker that had the workrate of 4 cavani's. Ravanelli has the aggression of Lavezzi, coupled with the scoring skills of Robben.
Del piero, was the only truely full offensive player.
This is why it worked.

But we cant do that. We dont have central midfielders who are AND tactically amazing, AND positionally amazing, AND tackling/intercepting/anticipating amazing like the 1996 juve midfield.

Imagine cambiasso, mascherano and essien formed a midfield. THAT is your midfield.


Allow me to show you how you could create a juve style 433 in todays football, altho vastly inferior

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That's simply not true. A player like Nani could bring to this team what Pogba and Vidal can't. He's good at crossing which would benefit Llorente a lot. He can also beat his man and is fast so he's an actual threat when counter attacking; None of our current players offers that. It's pointless to compare possible impact of those players because they play different positions.



I'm all for 4231 as well. I like both 433 and 4231 and I'll be happy if Conte decides to adapt one of those.



Exactly what I meant. We played Vucinic - Matri - Pepe imagine Tevez - Llorente - Nani where all 3 players are definitely upgrade over the previous ones. In 433 we used to play beautiful football very intense and our midfielders scored a lot of goals too. We shouldn't be afraid of playing this formation, we have a lot of strong players who can handle it physically. BVB does that and keep in mind they play a lot + they have a really short bench.

Tevez is not a winger. Nani has been crap on clublevel for a while now. Its time to let go.

If you wanna talk wingers, look at berardi.

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1996 juventus, attempted to project on today's players

-------------hugo lloris


ivanovic -- Vidic - Barzagli - Chiellini


----Martinez - schweinsteiger - Tourè


müller----------------------------Ronaldo

-----------------Cavani

 

[Hængebøffer]

You are wong, but you dont know why. allow me to explain.

I say, an "all out 433" is unbalanced. As in 3 midfielders of wich at least 1 is creative of makes forward runs, and 2 wingers that are full offensive wingers.

I said too, that the original conte 433, was a workhorse winger 433. That works, but requires specific players.
We have a midfield, not of pure holding monsters, but of box to box players. players that like to be aggressive and press, and have offensive intentions.

Juventus in 1996 played 433. Not not the "full out" one.
The 3 midfielders, were defensive monsters. very tactically limited in going forward.
Vialli, is a striker that had the workrate of 4 cavani's. Ravanelli has the aggression of Lavezzi, coupled with the scoring skills of Robben.
Del piero, was the only truely full offensive player.
This is why it worked.

But we cant do that. We dont have central midfielders who are AND tactically amazing, AND positionally amazing, AND tackling/intercepting/anticipating amazing like the 1996 juve midfield.

Imagine cambiasso, mascherano and essien formed a midfield. THAT is your midfield.


Allow me to show you how you could create a juve style 433 in todays football, altho vastly inferior

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Tevez is not a winger. Nani has been crap on clublevel for a while now. Its time to let go.

If you wanna talk wingers, look at berardi.

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1996 juventus, attempted to project on today's players

-------------hugo lloris


ivanovic -- Vidic - Barzagli - Chiellini


----Martinez - schweinsteiger - Tourè


müller----------------------------Ronaldo

-----------------Cavani

No offense, but that was a true Cronios post.

 

[Zacheryah]

I know, sorry

 

[LiquidPLP]

Tevez is not a winger. Nani has been crap on clublevel for a while now. Its time to let go.

If you wanna talk wingers, look at berardi.

Tevez would be LWF just on paper in fact he'd play more central role closer to Llorente. He's capable of dropping to wing too. Nani is finished? Just like some said about Tevez I guess. The guy has his flaws but this is why we can come close to him. My dream signing for wing would be Di Maria or Shaqiri but we can't afford those.

I'm all for giving Berardi a proper chance but will Conte do it?

 

[Salvo]

Leave Berardi for next year. Menez or Nani in Jan for me.