Andrea Agnelli (11 Viewers)

Feb 12, 2006
57,908
Better, yes. Good enough, no. Remember, we did have a great coach which called for a revamp of the squad, before Paratici played a part in his dismissal and then PAID to get Sarri here.

No they wouldn't have done better. Yes, it was time to get rid of Pjanic. But lets look a little more closely at those deals. I recall issues selling being a big criticism for Marotta. Higuain and Matuidi left for free, deals similar to which Marotta got criticized for in the past. It looks like Douglas Costa will be back here next season from his loan anyway, so I think it's a bit premature to count that as a victory at this point.

De Ligt was a good, if not expensive purchase. The Morata move was great as well, came out of nowhere. The Can sale was good. The Kean one unfortunately necessary it seems. Danilo turned out well thanks to Pirlo. I'm unconvinced by Demiral and Kulusevski.

We looked like we finally had another leftback with potential in Spinazzola, until Paratici traded him for a player that we will never see play for us. Now we have Bernardeschi and Frabotta. We have one player whose main position is LW in a very expensive 36 year old Ronaldo.

The midfield has been an issue for years now, and it continues to decline. Lets have a look at the signings there. McKennie was a decent signing for the price, sure. Probably shouldn't be a starter in a team lookint to win the Champions League though. But where are the rest? Rabiot is meh, nothing to take us to the next level, meanwhile Ramsey is barely healthy, which everyone in the world knew. It's great that Arthur is younger than Pjanic, but at the moment he doesn't seem particularly great either. Holds the ball well, but has stamina worse than me and seems to be an unprofessional dumbass. Not all transfers are going to work out, we all know that. So how about we sell one or two and replace them? But hold on now, Rabiot and Ramsey have wages that are astronomical on long contracts, selling them will be extremely difficult, if at all possible. Meanwhile due to some "fancy" accounting, Arthur's book value is sky high, so selling him for a profit will also prove to be impossible, at least for a few years. So now this leaves us in a terrible spot, financially crippled at our weakest point, which also happens to be the most important on the pitch in the modern game.

While questions are being asked, I think you should also ask yourself "are we better off now than we were 3 years ago?"
Higuain and matuidi left for free because nobody was going to pay for those 2 washed up and overpaid deadweight. Similar fate will probably happen to Costa because its not like there's a queue forming wanting his signature. Who wants a 30 something year old constantly injured Costa on a fat wage? tell me? Because I'm sure as hell nobody does not unless they were free, so we're better off cutting our losses now then.

Difference is Paratici was able to flog Emre Can for a tidy profit, yet marotta got peanuts for a world class Vidal.

You could argue that players like Alves, Llorente and Tevez had at least some re-sale value unlike higuain, matuidi and khedira though.

Are we better than 3 years ago? difference is 3 years ago we were playing pragmatic football under a good manager. Since then we're trying to change our identity to play something more attractive which we've never seen at this club nor known for ever. When you're changing something like that it's not something that changes like a flick of a button, we're literally changing the paradigms of this club and I think Agnelli has underestimated the task and time required to do that! it's like try to get Skoda to successfully make and sell supercars.
 
Last edited:

DS8_Montero

Senior Member
Aug 10, 2018
896
Pirlo shoulders far more of the blame than paratici to say the least.
Why Pirlo is the manager in the first place? Because the club didn't have money for a real manager.

Why the club didn't have money? Because they spent it on Sarri, and his appointment was one of the stupidest things Juventus management ever did (and, by the way, the club is about to pay another 20 mil to Sarri and his staff this summer).

Why did they spend money on Sarri? Because two clowns, Paratici and Nedved, pushed for it (and it's not just rumors, Sarri admitted it, and Allegri openly hinted at their role in his departure). Maybe, it was not the worst idea to part ways with Allergi at that point, but only if they had a proper replacement, not freaking Sarri.

So, in a nutshell, Pirlo is to blame only because Paratici and Nedved made much bigger mess, and Pirlo is only a tiny part of it. Focusing on Pirlo and saying Paratici did a decent job is a very questionable way of looking at the entire picture.
 
Feb 12, 2006
57,908
Why Pirlo is the manager in the first place? Because the club didn't have money for a real manager.

Why the club didn't have money? Because they spent it on Sarri, and his appointment was one of the stupidest things Juventus management ever did (and, by the way, the club is about to pay another 20 mil to Sarri and his staff this summer).

Why did they spend money on Sarri? Because two clowns, Paratici and Nedved, pushed for it (and it's not just rumors, Sarri admitted it, and Allegri openly hinted at their role in his departure). Maybe, it was not the worst idea to part ways with Allergi at that point, but only if they had a proper replacement, not freaking Sarri.

So, in a nutshell, Pirlo is to blame only because Paratici and Nedved made much bigger mess, and Pirlo is only a tiny part of it. Focusing on Pirlo and saying Paratici did a decent job is a very questionable way of looking at the entire picture.
Still i'd rather have kept Sarri purely on a tactical level than hired freaking Pirlo and make a bigger mess of things.
 

DS8_Montero

Senior Member
Aug 10, 2018
896
Still i'd rather have kept Sarri purely on a tactical level than hired freaking Pirlo and make a bigger mess of things.
They hired Sarri and threw a completely unsuitable set of players at him. From this point of view Paratici did a terrible job too. If they kept him, they would have to replace half of the squad to make it at least half-suitable for Sarri's style, which was impossible, and Paratici should have thought about it before pushing for Sarri's appointment.
 
Feb 12, 2006
57,908
They hired Sarri and threw a completely unsuitable set of players at him. From this point of view Paratici did a terrible job too. If they kept him, they would have to replace half of the squad to make it at least half-suitable for Sarri's style, which was impossible, and Paratici should have thought about it before pushing for Sarri's appointment.
Like I said in a previous post. Going from a history of playing pragmatic football to suddenly try and play some expansive entertaining hipster shit does not change over night, or even 1 or 2 summer transfer windows.
 

DS8_Montero

Senior Member
Aug 10, 2018
896
Like I said in a previous post. Going from a history of playing pragmatic football to suddenly try and play some expansive entertaining hipster shit does not change over night, or even 1 or 2 summer transfer windows.
Sure, but what exactly Paratici did to make it happen as quickly as possible, except for bringing Sarri? Gradual change cannot take 5 years in Juventus, it should have happened in 2 years max, or it would be (and, - surprise!, - is) a financial disaster (btw, wasn't it Paratici who brought CR7 and kept him at the club for these transitional years?).

When they hired Sarri, they should have immediately given him at least 4-5 key players to fit perfectly his ideas. Like the club did when they invited Lippi for a second time (they sold Zidane but bought Buffon, Nedved, Thuram, Salas). Or when Agnelli and Marotta invited Conte. Marotta gave Conte eight (!) new players, including Pirlo, Vidal, Lichtshteiner, Vucinic, and even a typical Conte's workhorse Giaccherini.

Paratici started the process he wasn't competent to even start properly. The club is gravely mismanaged, and the long-term consequences of it can be very grim.
 

Post Ironic

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2013
33,197
They hired Sarri and threw a completely unsuitable set of players at him. From this point of view Paratici did a terrible job too. If they kept him, they would have to replace half of the squad to make it at least half-suitable for Sarri's style, which was impossible, and Paratici should have thought about it before pushing for Sarri's appointment.
And beyond that, they hired Sarri, a classless bum, without any of the Juve style, grinta, or fino alla fine, a guy who went on about how second place was also a great accomplishment, and winning wasn’t so important. A coach with a one-dimensional tactical plan that he had absolutely no idea how to adapt when it didn’t work.

In the best circumstances Sarri was a poor poor fit for this club, and we hired him to coach a squad that didn’t even suit him.

Tootsie masterclass lol
 

AFL_ITALIA

MAGISTERIAL
Jun 17, 2011
20,846
Higuain and matuidi left for free because nobody was going to pay for those 2 washed up and overpaid deadweight. Similar fate will probably happen to Costa because its not like there's a queue forming wanting his signature. Who wants a 30 something year old constantly injured Costa on a fat wage? tell me? Because I'm sure as hell nobody does not unless they were free, so we're better off cutting our losses now then.

Difference is Paratici was able to flog Emre Can for a tidy profit, yet marotta got peanuts for a world class Vidal.

You could argue that players like Alves, Llorente and Tevez had at least some re-sale value unlike higuain, matuidi and khedira though.

Are we better than 3 years ago? difference is 3 years ago we were playing pragmatic football under a good manager. Since then we're trying to change our identity to play something more attractive which we've never seen at this club nor known for ever. When you're changing something like that it's not something that changes like a flick of a button, we're literally changing the paradigms of this club and I think Agnelli has underestimated the task and time required to do that! it's like try to get Skoda to successfully make and sell supercars.
Yes, but I'm saying these are moves that Marotta would've been criticized for as Tevez or Alves didn't really have resale value either, especially with Tevez wanting only one specific location. Because you could also argue Higuain, Matuidi, and Khedira had "at least some" resale value as well considering they're still playing.

Of course such a thing takes time, of which I would expect at least some results after 3 YEARS. How long are you expecting? 5? 10? But even if you'd like to put style aside then, player for player or even by part of the field, you would honestly say that our squad is better than 3 years ago?
 
Feb 12, 2006
57,908
Yes, but I'm saying these are moves that Marotta would've been criticized for as Tevez or Alves didn't really have resale value either, especially with Tevez wanting only one specific location. Because you could also argue Higuain, Matuidi, and Khedira had "at least some" resale value as well considering they're still playing.

Of course such a thing takes time, of which I would expect at least some results after 3 YEARS. How long are you expecting? 5? 10? But even if you'd like to put style aside then, player for player or even by part of the field, you would honestly say that our squad is better than 3 years ago?
No honestly you couldn't

Alves was wanted by the likes of man city for example and was by no means as washed up as higuain, matuidi or khedira and that's why he went to play for PSG.
Llorente continued to play top flight football elsewhere.

Higuain and matuidi didn't and fucked off to the US because no top div side in Europe either wanted them or could afford them and khedira has barely featured for hertha berlin because he's always injured still.
 

AFL_ITALIA

MAGISTERIAL
Jun 17, 2011
20,846
No honestly you couldn't

Alves was wanted by the likes of man city for example and was by no means as washed up as higuain, matuidi or khedira and that's why he went to play for PSG.
Llorente continued to play top flight football elsewhere.

Higuain and matuidi didn't and fucked off to the US because no top div side in Europe either wanted them or could afford them and khedira has barely featured for hertha berlin because he's always injured still.
If you're still playing and starting somewhere, you have some sort of book value. Alves was "wanted" but there were no bids. If we're applying the same logic, he also has "no value." He left PSG for free too by the way.

Either way, the above conversation about <€10M max from years ago is irrelevant within the bigger picture, I'm more interested in the second paragraph I wrote as that is central to this forum-wide discussion.
 

Bianconero81

Ageing Veteran
Contributor
Jan 26, 2009
31,734
Man ....We had Matuidi / Khadera / Can / Mandzu / Rugani / De Ciglo / Cancelo ./ Higuain....

Fabio Replaced them with

Cheisa / Morata/ Deligt / Demiral / Danilo / Kulu / Authur / Mckinnie / Rabiot

in just 2 fucking seasons

Those younger and great potential need a coach to take the best out of them ...


unbalanced of what ? we only need a leader in the middle and we are set ....and you all know this is difficult to recruit ...

good night...
Chiesa and De Ligt are the only two signings in there that are worth mentioning - maybe Danilo.

Arthur looks like another useless Lolzilian who's more interested in bad weed, sideways passing and earning a fat paycheck for minimal effort.

Rabiot is a highly overrated French PussyFag who will never be better than average to slightly above average - the epitome of mental midgetry.

McNuggets is a decent signing, but if you want to compete with the best, he can be nothing more than a rotation option at a club like Juventus.

Kulu has been a disaster, but I still harbor hope for him.

Demiral is inconsistent, just like Morata, but they can both come good. I wouldn't call them great signings, but they're ok.
 

Juliano13

Senior Member
May 6, 2012
4,555
Chiesa and De Ligt are the only two signings in there that are worth mentioning - maybe Danilo.

Arthur looks like another useless Lolzilian who's more interested in bad weed, sideways passing and earning a fat paycheck for minimal effort.

Rabiot is a highly overrated French PussyFag who will never be better than average to slightly above average - the epitome of mental midgetry.

McNuggets is a decent signing, but if you want to compete with the best, he can be nothing more than a rotation option at a club like Juventus.

Kulu has been a disaster, but I still harbor hope for him.

Demiral is inconsistent, just like Morata, but they can both come good. I wouldn't call them great signings, but they're ok.
Demiral has been very consistent.
 

Strickland

Senior Member
May 17, 2019
1,870
Is it fair to go back 3 years? Beppster got the sack in October 2018, so the transfer windows of Paratici were summer 2019 and summer 2020. Summer 2019 was a mixed bag, summer 2020 was better and overall I'd say our 2020/21 roster is better than 2018/19 roster, of course that is a matter of preference.

Compared to 2018/19 the important players out are Cancelo, Spinazzola, Pjanic, Matuidi, Can, Costa, Kean, Mandzukic. Of course there's also Perin, de Sciglio, 39yo Barzagli, weelchair Khedira, Caceres and Rugani, but I doubt anyone is missing them. The important players in are de Ligt, Danilo, Demiral, Arthur, Ramsey, Rabiot, McKennie, Chiesa, Kulusevski and Morata. Is squad quality really heavily declined since then? I'd say no, the big problem is Pirlo coaching the team in 2020/21 instead of Allegri in 2018/19.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 3, Guests: 6)

  • almo